ESPN Films Presents: The Fab Five (Airs March 13th at 9pm ET)

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 7 years ago '04        #241
Javon23 265 heat pts265
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FYI: Running Rebels documentary comes on tonight at 7PM
 7 years ago '04        #242
Javon23 265 heat pts265
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 r.burgundy said:
hypocrisy is when they punish kids for takin money but sell his jersey for 75$ in a store.that s**t is beyond sick.its obvious webber didnt take no 200k while he was enrolled in michigan.so this is clearly after he announced he's goin pro.bob knight can choke a kid,his name still is great,but a koor kid takes some money and he's a scumbag and not good enough to hav his name in thier books
The school only turned his back on him when he refused to cooperate with the investigation. Everyone else cooperated and those people are still welcomed at Michigan. It was basically because of Webber that they had to vacate the wins. That was a decision the school made and not the NCAA
Raid and subpoenas

After the Michigan/Big Ten investigation and the private investigation, no serious violations arose. For example, Robert Traylor, Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, and Maurice Taylor were cleared in October 1997.[12][13][14] In April 1999, the FBI and IRS raided several Detroit-area homes to stop a numbers game operation in the area's Ford plants. Martin's home was one of the targets; he was found with a loaded gun, gambling records and $20,000 in cash in his home.[15] The authorities were investigating Martin's alleged numbers game operation at Ford plants and whether Martin had provided Michigan basketball players with money and gifts.[5] Another item that they seized was a Western Union moneygram from Martin to Traylor.[1] In the course of a federal investigation, evidence turned up that Martin had given cash payments and other benefits to several Michigan players and Detroit-area high school prospects starting in the early 1980s. As a result of the investigations, the Detroit Free Press reported in May 1999, that a federal grand jury subpoenaed several Michigan basketball players to investigate the relationship between Martin and the basketball program.[16]

Former Michigan basketball player Albert White was implicated in early investigations for having accepted US$37,000,[17] but he was not named in later indictments. It was not clear how much of the money White received directly and how much was given to his friends and family to influence his decision to attend Michigan.[18] Although White was one of several players captured on federal wiretaps and interviewed by both the FBI and IRS, he cooperated fully and did not need to hire a lawyer.[18] Although he was not implicated, he transferred from Michigan to play for the Missouri Tigers men's basketball team after clashing with Steve Fisher.

Ed Martin

In late 1999, Martin originally agreed to a plea bargain in which he agreed to disclose information about the payments. The agreement with the United States Attorney's office was nearly finalized in January 2000.[22] The paperwork for the plea agreement was to be finalized in March 2000 for the former Ford Motor Company employee to plead guilty to one count of federal gambling and one count of income tax evasion.[23][24] He and his son, Carlton, backed out in May 2000, preferring to take their chances at trial due to the likelihood of light punishment for first-time offenders.[24] Under the plea agreement in which they would have forfeited $100,000 and faced 6–15 months in prison, they would have been able to keep their homes. If found guilty at trial, they could have received up to 5 years imprisonment and a fine of $250,000 per count, but they would not have to agree to cooperate with the University investigation.[24]

Less than a week after Martin backed out of his plea agreement, several former players were subpoenaed to testify before grand juries.[25] In August 2000, Traylor and Bullock, by this time professional basketball players in the NBA and Italy respectively, were confirmed to have taken payments from Martin. Many of the payments came after the 1997 banning of Martin from contact with the team and the firing of Steve Fisher.[26] The two players cooperated with federal authorities and admitted to receiving money.[27] Traylor, Bullock, Webber, Rose and Taylor all testified before the grand jury.[27] Fisher, the current San Diego State University coach, testified before a federal grand jury investigating Martin.[28] Also testifying were former Michigan a.ssistants Perry Watson, Brian Dutcher and Scott Perry.[27][28] Martin and Watson had been close friends when Watson was head coach at Detroit Southwestern High School, with Martin often sitting on the bench along with a.ssistant coaches. Perry, who had arranged Cleaves' recruiting trip, had known Martin since 1977 and coached under Fisher from 1993–1997.[27] Many players and observers believed Martin was Watson's uncle, leading to Martin's schoolyard nickname of "Uncle Ed." Martin and Watson had a falling-out in the early 1990s,[28] shortly after Watson joined the Michigan staff. Webber's father also gave sealed testimony before the grand jury.[29]

On March 21, 2002—after almost three years of testimony—the grand jury returned an eight-count indictment charging Martin, his wife Hilda and their friend Clarence Malvo with running an illegal gambling business at the Ford River Rouge plant, money laundering and conspiracy to launder money. According to the indictment, Martin made illicit loans totalling $616,000 to Webber, Taylor, Bullock and Traylor to launder money from an illegal numbers game at Detroit–area auto plants.[30] The loans were made with the understanding that they would be repaid once the players turned pro. Martin was indicted for having paid Webber a total of $280,000 between 1988–1993, which included time from Webber's freshman year at Detroit Country Day School in Birmingham, Michigan to his sophomore year at Michigan.[31]

Martin, his wife, Hilda, and Clarence Malvo were under federal indictment for conspiracy to engage in illegal gambling and could have faced up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine if convicted. Mr. Martin had also been charged with seven additional counts: having an illegal gambling business, conspiracy to launder money, three counts of laundering money and two counts of using money from illegal activities. The charge against Hilda Martin was dropped as part of a plea agreement.[2] On April 8, 2002, Malvo pleaded guilty to grand jury perjury for testifying that he did not work for Martin. On May 28, 2002 Martin pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to launder money. He agreed to cooperate with investigations by the government, Michigan and the NCAA. The other seven charges against Martin were dropped in addition to those against Hilda.[32] Furthermore, Martin was barred from a.ssociating with the team by a ban, which made any continuing financial relationship with him in violation of NCAA rules and to be considered a new violation.[33]

Chris Webber

In September 2002, Webber was indicted on five charges, including obstruction of justice and lying to a federal grand jury, for having misrepresented his relationship with Martin. Each charge was punishable by five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.[34][35] He vowed to f!ght the charges.[35]

Martin pleaded guilty to running an illegal lottery at the Ford Motors plant he worked at to provide proceeds for the players. Martin testified that he paid Webber $280,000 in cash and gifts, but as of January 2003 Webber denied receipt of money from Martin and maintained that he had testified truthfully to a grand jury in 2000 on such matters.[36] Martin stated that there was always an understanding that the money would be repaid after the players became professionals.[37] In the 2000 grand jury investigation, Webber had been asked about whether his off-campus apartment rent had been paid by Martin and whether he had received spending money, jewelry, clothing or a stereo. Webber generally responded by saying either that he could not recall or that he did not think he had received such gifts.[36] However, prosecutors say that Webber, after turning professional, gave Martin ''a significant sum of money, in cash, as a partial repayment.''[36] In December 2002, Webber's father admitted he had accepted gifts and a small loan from Martin, which contradicted earlier statements.[34][36] Prosecutors also accused Webber's aunt of lying about a meeting she had with Martin in the updated filing.[36]

Chris Webber, his father, Mayce Webber, and aunt, Charlene Johnson, were also indicted on charges of having lied to a federal grand jury regarding dealings with Martin.[38] The University had attempted three previous investigations and was not successful at gathering enough evidence to proceed further until the federal government got involved.[38] In January 2003, the federal prosecutors filed more detailed indictments against Webber and his relatives for obstruction of justice and perjury.[36]

Ed Martin died of a suspected pulmonary embolism on February 14, 2003.[2][39] He was awaiting sentencing at the time of his death.[2] Malvo, who confessed to taking bets and paying off winning wagers for Martin, pleaded guilty April 8, 2002 to lying before a federal grand jury. He admitted to telling a grand jury in October 1999 that he bet money but did not work for Martin. He was sentenced in August 2002 to two years' probation.[2]

Martin's death largely took the air out of the federal perjury case against Webber. In July 2003, on the day before jury selection in the case was due to begin, Webber plead guilty to the reduced charge of criminal contempt in order to avoid a possible jail sentence. He admitted to having received and repaid $38,200. The deal was subject to a discretionary fine and possible classification of the infraction as a felony by the United States District Court Judge Nancy Edmunds who would rule in September 2003. In exchange for the plea all other charges were dropped against him as were all charges against his father. The charges against Webber's aunt had been dropped after Martin's death.[/QUOTE]
 7 years ago '09        #243
That Guy Fly 21 heat pts21
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I remember Martin always being around Webber so much that Charles Barkley said he thought that was Chris Webber's dad and not the guy who is actually Webber's dad. He even joked about it on air last year with Webber.
 03-14-2011, 03:09 PM         #244
DrX 
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UNLV doc was a.ss...it was boring as hell
 7 years ago '04        #245
lilflip01 1 heat pts
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This was a good show
 7 years ago '04        #246
avondale46 
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Can someone upload both of those docs. Or point me in the right direction.
 7 years ago '04        #247
J.BEEZY 10 heat pts10
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 Tecnique said:
I watched this then turned it to HBO to watch the Running Rebels documentary.

The UNLV one was better.
is there a link to either of these?
 7 years ago '06        #248
bassy 23 heat pts23
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I thought the "Fab 5" documentary was better than the "Runnin' Rebels" one.

But if you watched one you really don't need to watch the other.

1) Team full of superstars makes the NCAA tournament in back-to-back years.

2) Both teams were full of young black men that drastically changed the landscape of college basketball (Both by style on & off the court).

3) Both teams were expected to win championships.

4) Both made the universities a lot of money.

5) Both got in serious trouble with the NCAA.

6) Both head coaches got fired over controversies.

7) Both played & hated Duke.

8) Players went on to the NBA while both basketball programs have since failed to regain their former dominance.
 7 years ago '07        #249
TH35 103 heat pts103
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 Javon23 said:
FYI: Running Rebels documentary comes on tonight at 7PM
Thanks
 7 years ago '05        #250
Woodwin 2 heat pts
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That s**t gross they make all that money off them...but cant get none that s**t...Its not like they can get a job or anything playing basketball is they job along with still not getting on academic probation...If i was all the players id make people stop selling my jerseys s**t wit my name posters...t shirts all that s**t

The documentary was hella tight...that c webb momment was rough to watch cause i know what that feel like...not necessarily the exact situation for a National Title but the pain was the same
 7 years ago '09        #251
That Guy Fly 21 heat pts21
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 Woodwin said:
That s**t gross they make all that money off them...but cant get none that s**t...Its not like they can get a job or anything playing basketball is they job along with still not getting on academic probation...If i was all the players id make people stop selling my jerseys s**t wit my name posters...t shirts all that s**t

The documentary was hella tight...that c webb momment was rough to watch cause i know what that feel like...not necessarily the exact situation for a National Title but the pain was the same
They dont sell jerseys with guys name on it because its illegal. I have never bought a college jersey with the name on it. I had to get the name put on it or buy a throwback that the name was added later. As of now, you just buy the school's name and a jersey number. Plenty of people end up wearing that number over time.
 7 years ago '08        #252
EMER1TUS 11 heat pts11
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Former Michigan basketball player Albert White
I've only been dunked on maybe 10 times my whole life....by far Big Al caught me the best in a summer league game I was standing in front of the rim on a 2 on 1 fast break Big Al coming straight down the lane, n*gga took off and 360'd on me left me beating on his chest :beat: Foul, and 1 and waving the :celebrate: then laughed at me and "helped me up"

Forgot: n*gga missed the free throw cuz everybody in the gym was still laughing including me.


Last edited by EMER1TUS; 03-14-2011 at 04:12 PM..
 7 years ago '04        #253
J.BEEZY 10 heat pts10
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bobby hurley fires back
In an interview with Dan Patrick, former Duke point guard Bobby Hurley responded to derogatory comments made by Jalen Rose and Jimmy King in their documentary, “The Fab Five,” which aired Sunday night on ESPN.

“I noticed there was a high level of bitterness there, particularly directed towards us,” Hurley said. “I wonder why? We were 3-0 against Michigan, so I can understand Jalen's frustrations.”

Rose said in the film he felt Duke didn't recruit black players like him, only those who were “Uncle Toms.” Patrick pointed out that Duke did recruit Chris Webber.

“We would've welcomed him with open arms,” Hurley said. “Jalen, on the other hand, I can understand why we didn't recruit him. He might have a tough time hitting the floor, because he wasn't taking my spot.”
Via Steve Schrader/Detroit Free Press

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 7 years ago '10        #254
scotthew89 
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does anyone know if this is replaying on espn or espn 2. I came back to college and the damn cable was out
 7 years ago '04        #255
Liquid-Science 28 heat pts28
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 J.BEEZY said:
bobby hurley fires back
Hurley's peak was college basketball and being lucky enough to be in Blue Chips with real stars like Penny and Shaq

C-Webb was a productive NBA star for 10 years

Juwan Howard got 100 million contract

jalen rose had a productive NBA career

I doubt they're really that mad...

it's like how when you grow up and you're successful in your own right, you can say something that sucked about your childhood...but it doesn't really matter because you're alright now
 7 years ago '04        #256
Liquid-Science 28 heat pts28
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 scotthew89 said:
does anyone know if this is replaying on espn or espn 2. I came back to college and the damn cable was out
according to the search on comcast, it doesn't look like they're replaying it until the 21st

and I can't find any dl links for it either which pissed me off
 7 years ago '09        #257
That Guy Fly 21 heat pts21
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 Liquid-Science said:
Hurley's peak was college basketball and being lucky enough to be in Blue Chips with real stars like Penny and Shaq

C-Webb was a productive NBA star for 10 years

Juwan Howard got 100 million contract

jalen rose had a productive NBA career

I doubt they're really that mad...

it's like how when you grow up and you're successful in your own right, you can say something that sucked about your childhood...but it doesn't really matter because you're alright now
I agree with all you said but you know them n*ggas would give anything to have beaten Duke. They would go suit up right now and pay millions if they could play Duke and beat them just once.
 7 years ago '04        #258
Liquid-Science 28 heat pts28
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yeah I'm sure they are like would've been nice but f**k it...they won at life...they are more remembered than 99% of teams that won a title

they are more famous and got more money than anyone on those Duke teams except maybe Grant hill and he's more famous for being a walking, talking injury
 7 years ago '09        #259
That Guy Fly 21 heat pts21
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 Liquid-Science said:
yeah I'm sure they are like would've been nice but f**k it...they won at life...they are more remembered than 99% of teams that won a title

they are more famous and got more money than anyone on those Duke teams except maybe Grant hill and he's more famous for being a walking, talking injury
Didnt Laettner attempt to buy an NBA team a few years back? Takes some real money to do that. Hell, it even took MJ a minute to get up the funds and its taking Magic Johnson a while right now. Magic is even considering buying an NFL team instead because its cheaper.
 7 years ago '07        #260
timdog 924 heat pts924
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 Liquid-Science said:
yeah I'm sure they are like would've been nice but f**k it...they won at life...they are more remembered than 99% of teams that won a title

they are more famous and got more money than anyone on those Duke teams except maybe Grant hill and he's more famous for being a walking, talking injury
thats why jalen bit his tounge when he talked about the 2nd half of that championship game

he gave them there credit he had to they spanked that a.ss im not duke fan at all but hurley was nice in college as well as laetneer

laetneer got mad millions hill does to

the fab 5 might got more money and fame but like hurley said we beat them 3 times and they beat them when it mattered in the ncaa championship game

jalen basically admitted he envied grant hill's life

but jalen did credit where credit is due but i do agree duke looks for polished black athlete
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