Dec 22 - Another humanoid species co-existed with early humans and Neanderthals

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 7 years ago '08        #61
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the show may throw out some theories that are reaching but the main basis of the show is at least thought provoking, i mean it really merges science and religion together

u gotta admit the weird drawings on cave paintings and figures and s**t really do look like astronauts
people turning into ash, zues and all the other gods "lifting" off the top of the mountain, the sumerian texts describing genetic mutations and all that

id really like to research these claims myself, maybe take a visit to these ancient sites
but it makes sense in my head, who knows
 7 years ago '04        #62
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 SlickJ101 said:
It all borrows from itself. Which ideas are considered theories and which are just crazy stories really depends on who's reading and what they want to acknowledge or dismiss as a legit idea.

Like I said, if you think the government is giving us the full story on what they know about alien life, then we shouldn't bother having this discussion.
I haven't said anything about that. I don't see the point of bringing aliens into this discussion in the first place.
 7 years ago '05        #63
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Possibly big foot? I already heard that thousands of years ago there is proof that there was a race of giants that lived amongst us, and for whatever reason they all seemed to die off. I also think the fact that we have so many different races is evidence that we didnt necessarily come from one type of man.
 7 years ago '04        #64
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 cuddyduce said:
the show may throw out some theories that are reaching but the main basis of the show is at least thought provoking, i mean it really merges science and religion together

u gotta admit the weird drawings on cave paintings and figures and s**t really do look like astronauts
people turning into ash, zues and all the other gods "lifting" off the top of the mountain, the sumerian texts describing genetic mutations and all that

id really like to research these claims myself, maybe take a visit to these ancient sites
but it makes sense in my head, who knows
Those are interpretations with a modern eye. It's foolish to extend what a.ssociations a modern person would make to what the people who created them may have been attempting to represent.
 7 years ago '04        #65
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i dont mean to intervene on you guys' arguments, but from reading information on the aims of academia of the past, one thing i do know is that science, as much as religion, has a social agenda that it is trying to achieve, often to the benefit of certain privileged people. i say that as a cellular and molecular bio major at UT (anthro too), so im not some religious nut, probably quite the contrary, but i cant deny the facts. i say all that to say, all of this alien BS, even though it can be thought provoking, is just an attempt to discredit ancient peoples who did extraordinary things without the use of modern technology, especially those in remote non european areas. this has been a historical trend, im not making any thing up here. i always here about how the pyramids couldnt have been built because the stones are too heavy and blah blah blah, but so much of the ancient techniques have been lost to history, that it isnt fair to those people to discredit them that far. i can even bring closer to the modern day with rome from when i studied architecture, which is the primary building style weve used in america since its onset. we only have ONE surviving treatise from Vitruvius on how to build in the roman style and that wasnt even a heralded one in his day, thus this is what we use when building Romanesque buildings. and the techniques used by the romans in building same logic could be used to understand that we probably know very little about how ancient peoples could do those great things. and they probably didnt need any damn aliens. and the highly religious natures of most ancient peoples created a need for a high degree of monumentality (if thats a word lol). even the mayans could build so precise in its buildings that you couldnt slip paper through the stones, but it was a mastered technique that developed over time. one thing i believe is that the time scales we give these people are often inaccurate, not emcompassing the time it took for those ideas to develop. but i do feel the alien talk is much like eugenics talk and other discrediting forms of academia (even from well noted scientists) in that it aims to discredit certain people. that is my opinion though, disagree if you must, it is your right.

however, in light of the article, i say that in order to keep science respectable, they should withhold some of this stuff, so that it doesnt seem fishy to the public and exposed to undue criticism from religious fanatics because it can seem agenda driven. i believe in evolution, in fact its an overwhelming amount of evidence to prove it exists, but still this info has to be leaked responsibly and be fool proof, or as fool proof as possible. again this is just my opinion as a science major because sometimes i get a bit skeptical when new thoroughly unchecked info is released
 7 years ago '08        #66
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 HHS said:
Those are interpretations with a modern eye. It's foolish to extend what a.ssociations a modern person would make to what the people who created them may have been attempting to represent.
How is that foolish? It's just interpretation.

That's like saying archeology and history is pointless.
 7 years ago '08        #67
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And dude above, you gotta use some motherf**king paragraphs.
 7 years ago '04        #68
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 SlickJ101 said:
How is that foolish? It's just interpretation.

That's like saying archeology and history is pointless.
Archeology and history are fields which have both been guilty of that, on many occasions. I wouldn't say they're pointless, though. They can just be misused.
 7 years ago '08        #69
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 HHS said:
Archeology and history are fields which have both been guilty of the same thing, on many occasions. I wouldn't say they're pointless, because they do have some mechanisms in place to avoid that.
It's all about what people do or do not choose to acknowledge as possible.

Personally, I know there's a ton of s**t out there that I don't understand and might never, so I'm open to different theories if they seem reasonable.
 12-24-2010, 01:13 AM         #70
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I read everything you said and I had a hard time understanding your point. If it was he very end piece then ok but it made everything else you said kind of pointless to write . But no information should be released once it has passed the initial tests for validity. Scientific studies can take decades to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and if your idea was put in place it would take away some things we know and use now.

As far as the ancient alien thing, please post some stuff that you feel is a legitimate point they bring up and if I have time I will attempt to debunk them. Any intelligent person in a historical field can do what they are doing, go back and question things we don't know then add an alien theory to it to bump up some ratings. The ancient world wasn't as primitive in some scientific areas as people think, just because they didn't have computers puttin doesn't mean they couldn't make some buildings.
 7 years ago '04        #71
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I'd be open to reasonable theories also.
 7 years ago '05        #72
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 jplaydadon said:
i dont mean to intervene on you guys' arguments, but from reading information on the aims of academia of the past, one thing i do know is that science, as much as religion, has a social agenda that it is trying to achieve, often to the benefit of certain privileged people. i say that as a cellular and molecular bio major at UT (anthro too), so im not some religious nut, probably quite the contrary, but i cant deny the facts. i say all that to say, all of this alien BS, even though it can be thought provoking, is just an attempt to discredit ancient peoples who did extraordinary things without the use of modern technology, especially those in remote non european areas. this has been a historical trend, im not making any thing up here. i always here about how the pyramids couldnt have been built because the stones are too heavy and blah blah blah, but so much of the ancient techniques have been lost to history, that it isnt fair to those people to discredit them that far. i can even bring closer to the modern day with rome from when i studied architecture, which is the primary building style weve used in america since its onset. we only have ONE surviving treatise from Vitruvius on how to build in the roman style and that wasnt even a heralded one in his day, thus this is what we use when building Romanesque buildings. and the techniques used by the romans in building same logic could be used to understand that we probably know very little about how ancient peoples could do those great things. and they probably didnt need any damn aliens. and the highly religious natures of most ancient peoples created a need for a high degree of monumentality (if thats a word lol). even the mayans could build so precise in its buildings that you couldnt slip paper through the stones, but it was a mastered technique that developed over time. one thing i believe is that the time scales we give these people are often inaccurate, not emcompassing the time it took for those ideas to develop. but i do feel the alien talk is much like eugenics talk and other discrediting forms of academia (even from well noted scientists) in that it aims to discredit certain people. that is my opinion though, disagree if you must, it is your right.

however, in light of the article, i say that in order to keep science respectable, they should withhold some of this stuff, so that it doesnt seem fishy to the public and exposed to undue criticism from religious fanatics because it can seem agenda driven. i believe in evolution, in fact its an overwhelming amount of evidence to prove it exists, but still this info has to be leaked responsibly and be fool proof, or as fool proof as possible. again this is just my opinion as a science major because sometimes i get a bit skeptical when new thoroughly unchecked info is released
i think you are over analyzing the ancient alien theory. When i hear about stuff like that, i just take it as another perspective. Nobody knows what technology those people used to build those structures back then, and i think its cool that the alien theory provokes thought on subject. I dont discredit those people of that time. But some of those structures would be impossible to move without some type of machinery. Your argument is like saying rap music is the sole cause of violence. When we know that most people listen to rap music with an open mind, and take the lyrics as just a perspective of the artist. Not instructions on how to commit crime.
 7 years ago '08        #73
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 -BigC- said:
I read everything you said and I had a hard time understanding your point. If it was he very end piece then ok but it made everything else you said kind of pointless to write . But no information should be released once it has passed the initial tests for validity. Scientific studies can take decades to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and if your idea was put in place it would take away some things we know and use now.

As far as the ancient alien thing, please post some stuff that you feel is a legitimate point they bring up and if I have time I will attempt to debunk them. Any intelligent person in a historical field can do what they are doing, go back and question things we don't know then add an alien theory to it to bump up some ratings. The ancient world wasn't as primitive in some scientific areas as people think, just because they didn't have computers puttin doesn't mean they couldn't make some buildings.
id like a second perspective

just off the top of my head

-the sheer size and weight of the rocks moved, exceeding 100,200,350 tonnes a piece
-the accuracy and placement of these rocks
-in the video they say in todays time we would have trouble moving these rocks, as well as cutting them as precise as they did. the tool of choice would obviously diamond which the ancients didnt possess. also one stone cutter claimed he wouldnt even attempt to carve some of the things he saw in the stone as it would take too long and thats today
-how the story of the gods and all that fit perfectly into the ancient theory (extraterrestrial beings having advanced tools and would look god like to the ancient people. obviously just because it fits perfectly doesnt make it true, just looking for an opinion)
-the knowledge of stars and consellations in ancient times
-how civilizations on different continents have myths revolving around the same types of characters and events without ever coming into contact with each other
-the knowledge of the pythagorean theorem, and building monuments to right angle triangles
-some crazy dude built a monument in 1930 or some s**t claiming he knew "the powers of the ancient world" he was also 5 feet tall skinny as f**k and a hermit, and the rocks there are huge.

i cant think of any more but ill come back when i remember
-
 12-24-2010, 02:05 AM         #74
-BigC-  OP
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First off with a lot of these questions I have to just say time and man power plays into these. Because simple solutions can be used along with brute force to get things done. I am not saying its just 200000 guys pushing a 50 ton block, but its a combination of the physics they knew and man/animal power.

The moving of large objects was probably through the use of water and canals. How exactly they did that we don't know but its not impossible. If there was a legitimate reason for us to do that in todays society we would get it done. The Egyptians knew some physics and how s**t worked it is believable they did this by themselves without aliens.

The precision of the overall structural precision can not be known, there are a ton of ways they could of done it the problem is that we don't really know what exactly they knew.

The methods for cutting what they did is actually well established, and time was not an issue.

The reason the story fits perfectly is because it was built for it. Its like the Bible or Nostradamus or any other fictional set of writings that can be interpreted in different ways. When you have a set story with certain unknowns in it, you can build any wild story you want around it because you have the basic lines fo the story to start with.

The knowledge is just based off of scientific advancement. The reason why they knew what they knew was because they were allowed to pursue their scientific study. It seems odd that they knew so much considering how primitive they were, but you have to understand science until very recently was always held back(mainly due to religion) This is the first run we have had in our existence where science is mostly encouraged throughout the globe and held back in a very few places. Look at a time line and check how long these civilizations were around, then check back to how long ago we were riding horses.

Need more information for that monument the guy built so I can google .
 7 years ago '08        #75
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i feel like the answers you gave are so like "well they could of done it", well was it impossbile? arguable
it takes 10-20 men to move a tonne, a 350 tonne piece of rock would take 3500-7000 men on one rock.. moving it hundreds of miles

the precision of the cuts couldnt be replicated by lasers today, or so they say

also they claim the sumerians knew of pluto which wasnt discovered til 1970? (check on that)

you have to realize these people were a step removed from cave men, and all of a sudden you have complex architecture, language, civilization etc etc. Myths of "sky people" coming down and sharing knowledge. In in the native indian culture, these myths are passed along not as myths but as stories that actually happened. i honestly dont think a culture who was thriving and who made so many advancements in every possible known area would sit there and create "myths" for s**ts and giggles. but anyway thats my 2 cents
 7 years ago '05        #76
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 -BigC- said:
First off with a lot of these questions I have to just say time and man power plays into these. Because simple solutions can be used along with brute force to get things done. I am not saying its just 200000 guys pushing a 50 ton block, but its a combination of the physics they knew and man/animal power.

The moving of large objects was probably through the use of water and canals. How exactly they did that we don't know but its not impossible. If there was a legitimate reason for us to do that in todays society we would get it done. The Egyptians knew some physics and how s**t worked it is believable they did this by themselves without aliens.

The precision of the overall structural precision can not be known, there are a ton of ways they could of done it the problem is that we don't really know what exactly they knew.

The methods for cutting what they did is actually well established, and time was not an issue.

The reason the story fits perfectly is because it was built for it. Its like the Bible or Nostradamus or any other fictional set of writings that can be interpreted in different ways. When you have a set story with certain unknowns in it, you can build any wild story you want around it because you have the basic lines fo the story to start with.

The knowledge is just based off of scientific advancement. The reason why they knew what they knew was because they were allowed to pursue their scientific study. It seems odd that they knew so much considering how primitive they were, but you have to understand science until very recently was always held back(mainly due to religion) This is the first run we have had in our existence where science is mostly encouraged throughout the globe and held back in a very few places. Look at a time line and check how long these civilizations were around, then check back to how long ago we were riding horses.

Need more information for that monument the guy built so I can google .
yeah everything is arguable as far as the possibility that they could do it. But the real question is WHY. Why on earth would they even feel the need to build these "monuments" in some places that seem so strategically placed. If not for some "higher purpose". I'm sure egyptians or the mayans wouldnt gather 7000+ people to build pyramids with larger than life stones if it wasnt based on some higher technology. I mean, thats just me. Whether it was aliens or maybe it was people who used time travel? to go back in time and share technology. i dont know
 7 years ago '04        #77
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 cuddyduce said:
i feel like the answers you gave are so like "well they could of done it", well was it impossbile? arguable
it takes 10-20 men to move a tonne, a 350 tonne piece of rock would take 3500-7000 men on one rock.. moving it hundreds of miles

the precision of the cuts couldnt be replicated by lasers today, or so they say

also they claim the sumerians knew of pluto which wasnt discovered til 1970? (check on that)

you have to realize these people were a step removed from cave men, and all of a sudden you have complex architecture, language, civilization etc etc. Myths of "sky people" coming down and sharing knowledge. In in the native indian culture, these myths are passed along not as myths but as stories that actually happened. i honestly dont think a culture who was thriving and who made so many advancements in every possible known area would sit there and create "myths" for s**ts and giggles. but anyway thats my 2 cents
Every culture has myths, even modern cultures believe in myths, despite the existence of computers, space travel, and advanced physics. That they had these myths doesn't suggest that they were based in reality.

In terms of them being steps removed from cave men, we've actually talking thousands of years, and it didn't happen overnight. In many cases, we have concrete archaeological evidence that shows the steps through which these technologies developed, and proves that they didn't just pop up out of nowhere, their techniques grew through generations of experimentation. In Egypt, for example, we have evidence of experimentation with early step pyramids, and some of the designs weren't successful. They didn't just suddenly throw up the Great Pyramid of Giza one day.

In terms of us not being able to do some stuff today, I'm not really convinced of claims like that. In most cases, I think we just don't have the will to dedicate time to refining the techniques and creating these things. In some cases, ancient societies appear to have to significantly geared as a whole to completing these projects.


Last edited by HHS; 12-24-2010 at 08:09 AM..
 7 years ago '04        #78
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 GoDzSoN35 said:
yeah everything is arguable as far as the possibility that they could do it. But the real question is WHY. Why on earth would they even feel the need to build these "monuments" in some places that seem so strategically placed. If not for some "higher purpose". I'm sure egyptians or the mayans wouldnt gather 7000+ people to build pyramids with larger than life stones if it wasnt based on some higher technology. I mean, thats just me. Whether it was aliens or maybe it was people who used time travel? to go back in time and share technology. i dont know
It's called religion. You may notice that it still makes people do crazy s**t today, like blow themselves up. The level to which human beings will believe in and dedicate themselves to something really has no correlation to the reality of that idea.

Maybe you wouldn't feel the need to build these monuments and dedicate huge labor forces to doing it with purely human technology, but your leaders who would be directing you to do this also don't claim to be gods. Maybe if you thought Barack Obama was literally a god, your level of dedication would be different.


Last edited by HHS; 12-24-2010 at 08:19 AM..
 7 years ago '04        #79
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 The Warrior said:
guess we found out where black people came from, some human f**ked one of these beast things and out it came
Well seeing as how white people's skin burns in the sun, and you guys wear shorts and t-shirts in the winter, I'm guessing the african part deals w/ blacks while the caveman part deals w/ whites.
 12-24-2010, 12:25 PM         #80
-BigC-  OP
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A lot of the questions your asking are basically pointing towards the answer you want. If you look at it objectively and see the simple reasons for the things they did you would never ever ever reach a conclusion with aliens in it .
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