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 11-07-2010, 01:13 AM         #121
illmatix 
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CuZzA again.

good discussion between CUZzA and BigC
 7 years ago '06        #122
cboi3523 9 heat pts
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 CuZzA said:


Question: "Is there any validity to the Zeitgeist movie?"

Answer: The “Zeitgeist movie,” which is available for viewing on the Web – , is essentially a baseless conspiracy theory focused on attacking the Christian faith and the government of the United States. What is interesting, though, is that while nearly all the a.ssertions put forth in the movie are completely wrong, the end fear promoted by the movie is correct and backed by Scripture (depending on one’s view of biblical eschatology).

The purpose of this article is to address the first conspiracy theory (out of four) put forth in the movie—that Jesus is a mythological amalgamation of various pagan gods and deities invented by the Egyptians and other cultures. Time will not be spent addressing the two major claims that follow in the movie—that the U.S. government architected and planned the attacks that occurred on 9/11 (with a.ssertions being made that a pattern of such domestic attacks exists in history) and that there is a major banking conspiracy attempting to control the finances of all U.S. citizens and ultimately, the world. In the end, a comment will be made concerning the last theory—that a one-world government is coming.

The allegations concerning Jesus in the Zeitgeist movie can be summarized as follows: the Jesus proclaimed in the Bible is not a historical person, and in fact He never existed. Instead, Jesus is an invention of the biblical authors who painstakingly copied attributes of ancient pagan deities and created a new god to be worshiped. Jesus mirrors various pagan deities in the manner of His birth, life, death, and resurrection.

Further, the movie a.sserts that astrology is the foundation behind much of the writing in Scripture. The end conclusion is that Christianity is a myth—just as all the pagan religions that came before it—and is therefore untrue. To address these a.ssertions, it is helpful to break them down into three groups:

• The subject of astrology and the Bible.
• The supposed similarities between Jesus and mythological heroes.
• The evidence for the truthfulness of the gospel accounts.

The Zeitgeist movie (from the German meaning “spirit of the age” or literally “time” [Zeit] “spirit” [Geist]) claims that the Bible is based on astrology and the stars. Perhaps one of the most telling statements in all the Bible regarding the importance God places on the stars is found in Genesis 1:16b: “He made the stars also.” This simple statement reveals the extent of the importance of the stars’ creation. Some biblical commentators have said this brevity of description is deliberate as God wants to in no way give the stars significance. In truth, rather than giving the stars, sun, and moon any value beyond what they were created for, there are a number of places in Scripture that denounce their worship. Deuteronomy 4:19 says, “And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.” In fact, Deuteronomy 17:2-5 prescribes a death sentence for anyone found worshiping the creation rather than the Creator.

In Isaiah 47:13 God mockingly asks if the stargazers can actually protect those who follow them from the real Power of the universe: “All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you.” So the Zeitgeist movie’s claim that the Bible is based on astrology goes against what is written in the Book itself.

In addition to the faulty concept of astrology and the Bible being joined at the hip, the specific statements made in the film about this supposed link disregard historical facts. For example, the movie states that the number 12 in the Bible refers to the 12 zodiacal signs. So the 12 patriarchs, 12 tribes of Israel, and 12 disciples of Jesus are supposed to match the number of the astrological signs. This is out of the realm of possibility, as Genesis was written around 1000 B.C. with the actual events having occurred much earlier. History shows that the division of the stars/constellations into the 12 zodiacal signs did not occur until the Babylonians made the divisions around the fifth century B.C.

The meatier part of the first section of the movie is devoted to allegations of Jesus being nothing but a combination of pagan deities whose attributes the gospel writers borrowed to create their own new god. The main authority used in this portion of the movie, and the first major mythological figure presented as a forerunner of Jesus, is the Egyptian god Horus. If we see that the research on their primary character is flawed, it follows that the same faulty investigation methods/materials will be present in everything else.

The Zeitgeist movie makes these claims about the Egyptian god Horus:
• He was born on December 25 of a virgin (Isis Mary)
• A star in the East proclaimed his arrival
• Three kings came to adore the new-born “savior”
• He became a prodigious teacher at age 12
• At age 30 he was “baptized” and began a “ministry”
• Horus had twelve “disciples”
• Horus was betrayed
• He was crucified
• He was buried for three days
• He was resurrected after three days

If true, this would certainly be unsettling to followers of Christ. However, examining each point in detail is quite revealing. First, it is true that Egyptian legend has Horus being born to Isis. But where did the trailing name of “Mary” that used in the movie come from? No mention in any Egyptian literature links the name Isis to the name Mary. Isis was also not a virgin. No account of Horus’ birth makes this statement. Isis was not a virgin, but the widow of Osiris, another Egyptian god who conceived Horus with Isis. Finally, Horus was supposedly born during the month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), and not on December 25, a fact which does not help their claim of marrying the stories of Horus and Jesus, anyway, because the Bible never a.ssigns a birth date to Christ.

Next, the film states that a star in the East announced Horus’ birth and that three kings came to bring gifts to the “savior.” However, when stories detailing the birth of Horus are examined, there is no star or three kings who come to visit him. Trying to link this to Christianity fails in any event, as the account of Christ’s birth in Matthew has magi (wise men, not kings) coming to Jesus with their actual number not being stated. Clearly, the movie is using the traditions of December 25 and three wise men, not the Bible, to link Jesus and Horus. Finally, the movie calls Horus a “savior.” There are no descriptions of Horus being a savior to anyone or serving in that capacity.

This is an important point: the movie takes extreme liberty in the quick and subtle uses of Christian words and phrases that in no way accurately describe the actual pagan god or his attributes. This is seen again in the statements of Horus being “baptized” and starting a “ministry.” The only accounts remotely related to Horus and water are the stories told of Osiris (his father who is sometimes combined in ancient accounts with Horus to form one individual) whose body was cut up into 14 pieces by his enemy, Set, and scattered throughout the earth. Isis supposedly found each part of the body and after having Osiris float in the Nile, he came back to life or became the lord of the underworld, depending on which account is read. In any event, stating that Horus was “baptized” is simply playing fast and loose with Christian terminology and is another obvious attempt to link mythology and the Bible.

In addition, Horus had no “ministry.” Horus becoming a teacher at age 12 (mimicking the account of Jesus at the temple as a youth) is nowhere to be found in accounts of Horus; neither are there any statements to the effect that he had 12 “disciples.” According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers and some indications of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. No accounts of Horus being betrayed are found in his portrayals and he certainly did not die by crucifixion in any account. There is an incident described in one story of Horus being torn to pieces, with Iris requesting that the crocodile god pull him out of the water, but the movie does not mention this, as it does not fit their agenda. Further, the movie puts the account of Horus as originating in 3000 B.C., which predates the invention and practice of crucifixion, so there is another historical problem that must be overcome.

The claims of Horus being buried for three days and resurrected are not to be found in any ancient Egyptian texts, either. Some accounts have Osiris being brought back to life by Isis and going to be the lord of the underworld. But there is no mention of a burial for three days and no mention of his physically coming out of a grave in the same physical body he went in with and never dying again. And there is certainly no account of Horus dying for others as Jesus did.

In the end, the attempt to prove Horus was a picture/forerunner of Jesus simply fails from lack of any historical evidence. The movie continues in this same vein with all the other mythological pagan deities that pre-dated Jesus (Attis, Krishna, etc.) As just another simple example, the Zeitgeist movie says that Hindu’s Krishna was also crucified and resurrected. However, Hindu teachings clearly state that Krishna was k!lled by an arrow shot from a hunter who accidentally hit him in his heel, and after he died, he ascended to be with Brahman. None of the pagan deities, when accurately examined, mirror the Son of God recorded in the New Testament Gospels.

Of course, neither does the movie note the following facts:
• The many archaeological details confirming New Testament accounts.
• The historically confirmed references to the details of the life of Christ.
• The early dating of the Gospel accounts during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses.
• The deep moral convictions of the authors and their commitment to truth.
• The accounts of the apostles going to their deaths for what they believed.
• The typology of Joseph and Jesus (used by the film to supposedly debunk the actual existence of Christ) is very well known and accepted by conservative Christian scholars as a foreshadowing of the first coming of Jesus.
• All the good produced by Christianity (see How Christianity Changed the World by Dr. Alvin Schmidt), which is brushed aside with only the crusades and other like events being highlighted.

It is interesting to note that Christianity is the only faith attacked in the movie—Islam, Hinduism, and others don’t warrant a mention. Though the faith of the producers is not exposed, there is a blurb at the end speaking to the effect that “all is one,” with a clip of noted evolutionist/materialist Carl Sagan saying that the earth is a single organism and that a “new consciousness is developing” that shows all is one. This is paganism, pure and simple.

At the end of the movie, religion is called a distraction engineered by a secret group of people who are using it (along with the media and other mechanisms) to dumb down the population so they will accept with open arms a coming one-world government. This is the one proposition put forth by the movie that is plausible insofar as it is backed by prophetic statements made in both the Old and New Testaments. The books of Daniel, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation speak to the ambition of a world ruler who is to come.

It is interesting also that the movie quotes Jesus—someone they say never existed—from John 8:32: “You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free,” although they misquote it and say, “You must seek the truth and the truth will set you free.” The producers of the Zeitgeist movie, unfortunately, do not do this and instead choose to align themselves with very questionable and outright fabricated sources to malign Christianity and label it and all religions as pawns used by a secret organization they claim is currently working to take over the world. One thing is for certain, reaching such a conclusion using faulty materials certainly requires a lot of faith. Much more faith, in fact, than it takes to accept the truth and historical validity of Christianity.

Christians should not be surprised that such unfounded claims are invented in the imaginations of unbelievers and passed along by others as fact; in reality, such inventions are to be expected. Peter writes in his second epistle, “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves” (2 Peter 2:1).


Anyone can take parts of something and break it down to make it false, when there's no solid evidence.
Why doesn't anyone have super powers like the bible days? Why can't we part the seas or walk on water or raise from the dead? (Did they collect all the Dragon Balls then wish Jesus back to life or were people seeing ghost?) Because these are stories told in a certain manner.
What's the excuse for the other Jesus'?
There are other Jesus stories before the one you read today before the Jesus of the bible. How were they thought of? Why do Egyptian pyramids have pictures of Aliens, did God make them too?


Last edited by cboi3523; 11-07-2010 at 01:39 AM..
 7 years ago '05        #123
Sivraj 328 heat pts328
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Jesus FTW!!!
 7 years ago '09        #124
TERRANCE CRACK 48 heat pts48
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:budden:
 7 years ago '04        #125
qutaboi225 39 heat pts39
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 cboi3523 said:
:r ofl:
This sh*t had me rollin.
I believe it and I don't maybe to a certain extent. But when yall find someone that can part the sea again let me know. Jesus is probably only as real as Horace the Egyptian sun God.

Bible = Stories and roomers
There are too many Jesus stories that were waaayyyy before our time and the bible.
No will know until it's time to go.
Well..i guess we dont have to question WHY you are ignorant
 7 years ago '06        #126
RAZAH CUTS 5844 heat pts5844
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not a great look for Poland....

and what a surprise that it's the white (historically inaccurate) portrayal of Jesus that they have up there...
 7 years ago '05        #127
DrDeath 17 heat pts17
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too bad jesus isnt real
 7 years ago '06        #128
CuZzA 17 heat pts17
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 iMaGrOWNassMAN! said:


This is the best post I've read in the time I've been on Boxden.

I know a lot of people on here are atheist, and while I dont like it or agree with it, the only thing we can do as Christians is at least attempt to show them while we live the life we live and worship our almighty father above.


But Cuzza, theres one thing that I wanted to get your opinion on. What about the holidays such as Halloween, Christmas, Easter, etc.? I recently stopped celebrating some of them after a long talk with my pastor and I've been second guessing myself a bit lately. Your thoughts?
Sent you a PM but you know I'll get back to you later bro. Got a lot of stuff to say about all that.


 -BigC- said:
Its always been my stance that some churches are genuinely cool, I know of one that is little more then a place for people to hang out and maybe seek advice of some of the older folk. I've never had a problem with those folk because they never try to push themselves on anyone, my problem is with some of the people who do try and preach. Even more so some of the Republicans who use religion like its a scientific reason for things in politics. The religion itself does not bother me, its what its used for that does. If you want to believe in some crazy s**t then its your right, but the problem is that its so entrenched into our government in the United States that we basically need some sort of atheist revolution to set this s**t straight.
Each to their own I guess.


 bobbysteels18 said:
Why is the bible and Koren so violent. Would god really want half of this stuff to happen I believe in god and Jesus. but sometimes I question the bible and the Koran. I believe in peace and respect love your fellow man and women no matter what. Then you read these books and its all about violence and dieing. I mean is this really what God wants. Is the bible and koren really a lie????
Go back and read the previous pages bro, and see what I've written. The Bible is too historically accurate (there's a chart on a previous page somewhere) and too reliable to be labelled a lie. Fact.


 cboi3523 said:
Wasn't Nostradamus a great prophet too? Didn't he have predictions that came true?
But really who created God? and wouldn't he have powers too and be more powerful than God or did he create himself?
You don't know and I don't know and they forgot to add that part to your bible.
This is an infinite battle....
God vs. No God
Jesus vs. No Jesus
Happened vs. It didn't happen
Ghost vs. there are no such thing as ghost
Heaven & Hell vs. there is no Heaven and Hell
Aliens vs. no such thing as Aliens
Zeitgeist vs. Zeitgeist is bullsh*t
Pyramids were built by Aliens vs. No they weren't
UFO's are real vs. they're government air crafts
Afterlife vs. No afterlife
and the list goes on forever....
No one knows the truth so think outside the box and think for yourself don't
expect everything you read (bible wise or other) or hear to be true especially with the bible that no one in our time has lived to tell that tale.

For the Godly church goers preaching bible verses. If no one was here to teach you those certain ways and you weren't raised living by the bible what would you live by?
If you're raised with a certain mentality it's hard for you to really see things in another light because that's all that you were taught.

To k!ll is a sin but we give death sentences and lethal injections.
The U.S. Doesn't mix religion and politics but on the dollar bill it says in God we trust.
or is God really Gold, Oil and Diamonds....

If you're a Christian you will ALWAYS be forgiven no matter what so what makes you think people won't get the ideal to be violent, k!ll or r*pe people then say God forgive me and believe that they are still going to Heaven.

Churches can be considered another way to collect money in a different light.
Why would there really be a need for an offering everyday or week sounds suspect.

People should see the bible for what it really is, a man made book with stories and as a guide to live by don't take it to heart when people don't believe or live by every story in it.
I'll get back to this later. I've gotta go to church (ironically).


 illmatix said:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CuZzA again.

good discussion between CUZzA and BigC
Cheers man, theological debates are always a lot of fun.


 cboi3523 said:


Anyone can take parts of something and break it down to make it false, when there's no solid evidence.
Why doesn't anyone have super powers like the bible days? Why can't we part the seas or walk on water or raise from the dead? (Did they collect all the Dragon Balls then wish Jesus back to life or were people seeing ghost?) Because these are stories told in a certain manner.
What's the excuse for the other Jesus'?
There are other Jesus stories before the one you read today before the Jesus of the bible. How were they thought of? Why do Egyptian pyramids have pictures of Aliens, did God make them too?
I could get back to you on this...or I could let you cry in your pit of ignorance
We can't part the sea because we're not Moses, and we can't walk on water/raise from the dead because we're not Jesus.
There are no other Jesus'. The link I copied from when I quoted you explains the other 'Jesus' stories. Stop coming back to


 Drdeath said:
too bad jesus isnt real
I debate for five hours, and 6 pages, for a classic BX mark to come out and say that. Try reading the whole thread. You McDonald's-working a.ss might learn something.


 MumblesDaHumble said:
Inaccurate how? Also how is this bad for Poland? You can't make a statue cause some atheist retards from boxden are gonna get mad?


f**k outta here.
 7 years ago '06        #129
cboi3523 9 heat pts
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 qutaboi225 said:
Well..i guess we dont have to question WHY you are ignorant
Well...I guess we dont have to question WHY you're a d!ck head.

Not ignorant dumbass just not gullible like you kids.
 7 years ago '06        #130
cboi3523 9 heat pts
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 CuZzA said:
I'll get back to this later. I've gotta go to church (ironically).


I could get back to you on this...or I could let you cry in your pit of ignorance
We can't part the sea because we're not Moses, and we can't walk on water/raise from the dead because we're not Jesus.
There are no other Jesus'. The link I copied from when I quoted you explains the other 'Jesus' stories. Stop coming back to

Yah, take ya a.ss to church you need some saving.

Between ignorance and gullible is a big difference you should educate your self on that, as well as you have educated your self on the bible.

You must be an idiot, there are plenty of other Jesus stories just with different names for Jesus, you should do some reading before making dumb a.ss false claims.

Wonder if you even know there are various versions of the bible also. There are also many religions out there who's to say which one is right or which to follow. And I bet people like you believe the one that they read is the right one. GTFOH!

How stupid do you sound so only God, Moses and Jesus and a couple others
have "SPECIAL POWERS" you might as well believe in Dragon Ball Z with yall gullible a.sses. Yall aint see it happen so who the fukk are you to say it happened.

Not saying I don't believe in a higher power just letting people know not everything they read from the bible is true and accurate, especially because of how many times it's been REwritten.
 7 years ago '09        #131
K0ntrast 64 heat pts64
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Col statue bro
 7 years ago '09        #132
gzuzdatnucca 1 heat pts
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 bobbysteels18 said:
Jesus is the real deal all you non believers will see on judgement day.
I hate ya dum ni99as, just cause a ni99a dont believe the f**kery u believe in smfh jump off a 50 story window and then tell me if theres a "jesus"
 7 years ago '10        #133
GBREEZE 261 heat pts261
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 iMaGrOWNassMAN! said:


This is the best post I've read in the time I've been on Boxden.

I know a lot of people on here are atheist, and while I dont like it or agree with it, the only thing we can do as Christians is at least attempt to show them while we live the life we live and worship our almighty father above.


But Cuzza, theres one thing that I wanted to get your opinion on. What about the holidays such as Halloween, Christmas, Easter, etc.? I recently stopped celebrating some of them after a long talk with my pastor and I've been second guessing myself a bit lately. Your thoughts?
I already posted your answer, yes the church celebrates paganism.....



b) Also, most Christian organizations straight celebrate pagan rituals. Examples: Christmas, where in the Bible does it say Jesus was born on Dec, 25th??? The history behind this is The Church wanted to start welcoming pagans into Church and Christ. So what do the Pagans celebrate? Saturnalia, and Yule. ALL PAGAN holidays....But Christians are celebrating this every year. Halloween, or some churches call it their Harvest Festival. All rooted in Paganism. Oh Easter too, Easter comes from the rebirth of fertility (hence, the easter egg and bunny) which Christians celebrate and origninated from pagans. SO you tell me WHO'S THE FLIP FLOPPER????? I believe in the Bible it says "Learn not the ways of the heathen." But you continue to celebrate the heathen's holidays.
 7 years ago '09        #134
WezLFaCe_KiD 57 heat pts57
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But come on dawg us
You actually believe that us as Humans
(just like 10 Plus thousand years in existence )
already have the answer to What happens after we die
and how were supposed to get there ,
n*gga please theres Billions of Planets ,
and millions of Galaxy's and parallel universes
and you think people from thousands of years ago
who thought the world was flat
knows this ultra complex answer ?????????
/ like i said thread !!!!!!!
IF jesus was real he was most likely just some generous
carpenter who got hi s a.ss kicked and thats it

and this bs quotes of the bible dont tell me anything

really doesn't anyone notice this that its pretty much impossible that Jesus was gods son .. I mean how gullible are you guys .. No one can know if their are God(s) and Ur taking An old books word on it (not even evidence) Why do u think More and more people are becoming Agnostic and Atheist because its cool ,no they have common sense (also Most scientist are too )

[video - click to view]

 7 years ago '10        #135
420Heat 8 heat pts
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im not even religious and i know jesus was a real person

he aint comin back from the dead tho sorry
 7 years ago '05        #136
Nyse03 14 heat pts14
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The ignorance is incredible...but the one's posting ignorance really know deep down inside that they are...they're just ashamed at who they are...lmao
 7 years ago '06        #137
RalphLaurenJR 2 heat pts
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 420Heat said:
im not even religious and i know jesus was a real person

he aint comin back from the dead tho sorry
u sir are a idiot.
 11-07-2010, 05:04 PM         #138
AK85 
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 JaYYo said:
LOL Real talk December 25th is Saturnalia where these maggots beat they wifes and then f**k each other in the a.ss listen to Ras Kass song Jack Frost...."Celebrating Satan oops! oh sorry Santa" lol

Race shouldnt matter cuz thats not what Jesus was about at all he was here to help people but his race was switched for negative reasons an to mislead so it should be know that he was black, so if u colored and people degrade ur skin just laugh ignore it and stay peaceful an listen to this line
"He is called the Lion Of Judah but aint no Lions indigineous to the Middle East or Europe"

here is the song it is from fast foward to 1:33
Google Barbary and Caspian Lion.
 7 years ago '05        #139
DatKidDex 
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A white Jesus literally
 7 years ago '06        #140
cboi3523 9 heat pts
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 Nyse03 said:
The ignorance is incredible...but the one's posting ignorance really know deep down inside that they are...they're just ashamed at who they are...lmao

It's crazy how when you don't believe what another n*gga believes you become ignorant. I'm sure everyone on BX is capable of forming their own opinions and the opinions are most definitely not going to all match but that doesn't make one wrong and the other right..Yall n*ggas that keep calling disagreeing ignorant can...
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