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 7 years ago '09        #61
WezLFaCe_KiD 57 heat pts57
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Theres no way in knowing :fruit: simple as that just live your life and do what you think is right
 7 years ago '10        #62
jayjay2 11 heat pts11
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Shouldn't it be an ebony statue?? Everyone in the past was dark skinned
 7 years ago '08        #63
GrownmanJ 21 heat pts21
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 CuZzA said:
'God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Oh yeah, you're right. Sorry.

The word replenish should be in the verse. Meaning, something was there before humans were created. Therefore, Earth has been around for quite sometime. Simmer down...
 7 years ago '07        #64
JohnDoe 207 heat pts207
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my dad, who is a pastor, sent me this when we were having a discussion about what people on BX were talking about.......this was a few months back but ill post for discussion purposes

Probably the classic passage is found in Genesis 1: 24 - 31

(1) God created the earth
(2) Then he created plant life
(3) He created the fish of the sea and birds of the air
(4) All animals of the earth

NOTE: In all that he created up to this point he spoke of their kind, not gods,
and he spoke of they playing a part in life that is earth.

In regard to man we pick up in vs. 26 let us make man in our image

#1- It is interesting god speaks in the dual sense, him and somebody else,
he said in our image ( God and Jesus ) READ Colossians 1: 12 - 17

In regard to man created in the image of God there is also these thoughts...........

(1) Plants play no part in Gods redemption
(2) Animals too play no part
(3) Neither the earth that we live on

We were created in his image in that we are eternal, we are a creative being, we
are an emotional creature, we cry, we can rebel, we laugh, we create. There is not
a creature outside of man that does or can do these things. Animals do what animals
do they hunt, they are cunning in their hunting, they eat, and they reproduce. They
are not creative, and creative plays a big part in we being in the image of God. In
fact in this passage God told man to be in charge and subdue everything.

NOTE: Where man has faltered in being in the image of God is that we also have a
free will and fulfilling this image involves a partnership of we choosing to
partner with god to complete this image.

THIS IS CALLED MAN DOING HIS OWN THING..............It is interesting when
you see an animal misbehave, lets say a young one, they don't flip off their par-
ents and take off and do their own thing. They don't get a tattoo, put on ear rings
and nose studs, and start smoking weed and hang out and rebel against society.
No animals do what animals do, hunt, take care and nurture their young, reproduce
and do it all over again, and yes they do have cunning in their craft but that cun-
ning has been there from the beginning, animals do what animals do.

NOTE: Animals have done nothing in destroying the world we live in, we man,
have done it all. Man has not stepped up as a whole, we would rather
revert backwards and live like animals rather than manning up and be-
ing responsible for where we are and the condition of the world that we
live in. God told us to subdue and occupy, what kind of job have we
done.

Additional to this rational man in gods image, animals are not creative they are
born with their craft, style of living and hunting and providing. Man has looked at
animals and insects and even plant life and he has been creative in using what
life has shown him and creating something different.
On the otherhand you don't see Joe dog ,lets say, getting maybe with another
dog and brainstorming, hey man has created this vehicle to get them anywhere
why don't we come up with something that will best suit us. This is ridiculous
but this is also why man is superior to any beast, we are creative.
Man's biggest problem is that he is irresponsible and is full of excuses some-
thing you don't find in animals or insects. Everybody has done their part in crea-
tion except man, we are the ones that have messed up our habitat and surround-
ings along with our resources. Rather than being creative in good ways many
times our creativity to get our own ways has caused all of creation to suffer.
So like this guys argument about being creative in gods image and what this
means. He needs to stop making excuses and stop being the problem and man
up and be a part of the solution, anyone can argue anything, man needs to be
responsible and be the creature he was designed for to be, A MAN IN GODS
IMAGE.
 7 years ago '05        #65
SeanP3688 1 heat pts
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Praise white jesus :agreement6::agreement6:
 7 years ago '05        #66
SeanP3688 1 heat pts
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 jayjay2 said:
Shouldn't it be an ebony statue?? Everyone in the past was dark skinned
 7 years ago '06        #67
CuZzA 17 heat pts17
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 GrownmanJ said:
The word replenish should be in the verse.
From the KJV, you're right...

Meaning, something was there before humans were created. Therefore, Earth has been around for quite sometime. Simmer down...
...and this is where you're wrong. The word translated ‘replenish’ (in the KJV of the Bible) simply means ‘fill’ in the Hebrew. In the English of King James’ day, ‘replenish’ also usually meant ‘fill’, not ‘refill’. The word ‘replenish’ therefore can't be used to support ideas about a previous creation, which was destroyed.
 7 years ago '06        #68
CuZzA 17 heat pts17
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 jayjay2 said:
Shouldn't it be an ebony statue?? Everyone in the past was dark skinned
Yeah, you're right.
 7 years ago '10        #69
GBREEZE 260 heat pts260
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 CuZzA said:
The Bible does not give us a specific number. Adam and Eve had Cain (Genesis 4:1), Abel (Genesis 4:2), Seth (Genesis 4:25), and many other sons and daughters (Genesis 5:4). With likely hundreds of years of child-bearing capability, Adam and Eve likely had 50+ children in their lifetime.




The debate about whether or not Christians should celebrate Christmas has been raging for centuries. There are equally sincere and committed Christians on both sides of the issue, each with multiple reasons why or why not Christmas should be celebrated in Christian homes.

One argument against Christmas is that the traditions surrounding the holiday have origins in paganism. Searching for reliable information on this topic is difficult because the origins of many of our traditions are so obscure that sources often contradict one another. Bells, candles, holly, and yuletide decorations are mentioned in the history of pagan worship, but the use of such in one’s home certainly does not indicate a return to paganism. While there are definitely pagan roots to some traditions, there are many more traditions a.ssociated with the true meaning of Christmas - the birth of the Savior of the world in Bethlehem. Bells are played to ring out the joyous news, candles are lit to remind us that Christ is the Light of the world (John 1:4-9), a star is placed on the top of a Christmas tree to remember the Star of Bethlehem, and gifts are exchanged to remind us of the gifts of the Magi to Jesus, the greatest gift of God to mankind.

Another argument against Christmas, especially having a Christmas tree, is that the Bible forbids bringing trees into our homes and decorating them. The passage often cited is Jeremiah 10:1-16, but this passage refers to cutting down trees, chiseling the wood to make an idol, and then decorating the idol with silver and gold for the purpose of bowing down before it to worship it (see also Isaiah 44:9-18). The passage in Jeremiah cannot be taken out of its context and used to make a legitimate argument against Christmas trees.

Christians who choose to ignore Christmas point to the fact that the Bible doesn’t give us the date of Christ’s birth, which is certainly true. December 25 may not be even close to the time Jesus was born and arguments on both sides are legion, some relating to climate in Israel, the practices of shepherds in winter, and the dates of Roman census-taking. None of these points is without a certain amount of conjecture, which brings us back to the fact that the Bible doesn’t tell us when Jesus was born. Some see this as proof positive that God didn’t want us to celebrate the birth, while others see the Bible’s silence on the issue as tacit approval.

Some Christians say that since the world celebrates Christmas - although it is becoming more and more politically correct to refer to it as ‘the holidays’ - Christians should avoid it. But that is the same argument made by false religions that deny Christ altogether, as well as cults such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses who deny His deity. Those Christians who do celebrate Christmas often see the occasion as an opportunity to proclaim Him as ‘the reason for the season’ among the nations and to those trapped in false religions.

As we have seen, there is no legitimate scriptural reason not to celebrate Christmas. At the same time, there is no biblical mandate to celebrate either. In the end, of course, whether or not to celebrate Christmas is a personal decision. Whatever Christians decide to do regarding Christmas, their views should not be used as a club with which to beat down or denigrate those with opposing views, nor should either view be used as a badge of honor inducing pride over celebrating or not celebrating. As in all things, we seek wisdom from Him who gives it liberally to all who ask (James 1:5), and accept one another in Christian love and grace, regardless of our views on Christmas.




The Bible is written by man, but the inspired word of God. The Bible hasn't been translated loads of times to get to the version we're at now. The Bible was written in Hebrew/Greek (depending on whether it was the Old Testament or New Testament), then translated to different languages from there, i.e. Hebrew > English, Greek > French, Greek > German, Hebrew > Spanish.
It wasn't translated like: Hebrew/Greek > French > German > Spanish > Russian > Chinese > Polish > English

There are no “lost books” of the Bible or books that were taken out of the Bible. There are many legends and rumors of lost books, but there is no truth whatsoever to these stories. Every book that God intended and inspired to be in the Bible is in the Bible. There are literally hundreds of religious books that were written in the same time period as the books of the Bible. Some of these books contain true accounts of things that actually occurred (1 Maccabees, for example). Some contain good spiritual teaching (the Wisdom of Solomon, for example). However, these books are not inspired by God. If we read any of these books, the Apocrypha as an example, we have to treat them as fallible historical books, not as the inspired, inerrant Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

The gospel of Thomas, for example, was a forgery written in the 3rd or 4th century A.D., claiming to have been written by the apostle Thomas. It was not written by Thomas. The early church fathers almost universally rejected the gospel of Thomas as heretical. It contains many false and heretical things that Jesus supposedly said and did. None of it (or at best very little of it) is true. The epistle of Barnabas was not written by the biblical Barnabas, but by an imposter. The same can be said of the gospel of Philip, the apocalypse of Peter, etc.

There is one God. The Bible has one Creator. It is one book. It has one plan of grace, recorded from initiation, through execution, to consummation. From predestination to glorification, the Bible is the story of God redeeming His chosen people for the praise of His glory. As God’s redemptive purposes and plan unfold in Scripture, the recurring themes constantly emphasized are the character of God, the judgment for sin and disobedience, the blessing for faith and obedience, the Lord Savior and sacrifice for sin, and the coming kingdom and glory. It is God’s intention that we know and understand these five themes because our lives and eternal destinies depend upon them. It is therefore unthinkable that God would allow some of this vital information to be “lost” in any way. The Bible is complete, in order that we who read and understand it might also be “complete, and equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
I noticed you didn't respond about Easter or Halloween or Harvest Festivals....... Also, if your book does not say to celebrate Christmas then why would you??? Let's be real, money is the root of all evil, and Christmas in our society is all based around people spending money.....Satan is making a mockery of GOD. The term santa is derived from Satan. What do they say about Santa? He's making list, checking it twice, he knows who naughty and nice. That's saying he's is omnipotent, all seeing, all knowing. Really? Santa or Satan all seeing all knowing? Huh. The reindeer that santa rides on represents the stag God that the occult worship. That's right stag=reindeer, which in turn represents Satan. This is clearly paganism. This is something that I know your God would not want. Reliable information? There's plenty out there about the roots of Christmas. Again, if your book does not say to celebrate it why would you? The date of Jesus's birth is never given in the Bible, so where would December 25th come from???? The Pagans, its not hard to figure out where this all comes from. So you think its just conicidence that Dec 25th and the celebration of Saturnilia are on the same day? The celebration of Yule is around this same time? The winter solistice is also around this time? ALL PAGAN!!!! Christmas is not what most think it is. Remember, learn not the way of the heathen.



Lastly, I can honestly say that I don't believe that lets say Unboontu in Phillipines that's lives his whole life without ever even hearing about Christ, and lives a morally correct life, never lies, steals, or cheats, but prays to a different God is going to the lake of fire. Your religion states simply if you dont believe in Christ you go to hell. What about all those good hard working, morally ethic people that do not celebrate your God? You believe they are going to hell for living a clean, godly life? They are punished for being good human beings?? That makes 0 sense. Which is why everyone thinks their religion is the truth. Religion has caused so many wars and deaths. So I have a personal relationship with God, I don't need a book or a statue to pray to. I know I am not perfect, and do not claim to be. I ask for forgiveness everyday, and I love God.


Last edited by GBREEZE; 11-06-2010 at 09:39 PM..
 7 years ago '06        #70
CuZzA 17 heat pts17
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@GrownmanJ

I got this from

The truth of the matter, however, is that defenders of the Gap Theory could have saved themselves much time, effort, and endlessly wild speculation if they simply had examined more carefully the correct meaning of “replenish” in Genesis 1:28. I readily admit that our English word “replenish” derives from the Latin re (again) and plenus (full), and thus can mean “to fill again.” I also readily admit that even Webster’s Dictionary quotes this verse under its definition of “replenish” as to “repeople.” But theological issues are not determined by appeals to Webster’s Dictionary or modern-day usage. Such issues are determined by appeals to the original languages, however. And in this case, such an appeal immediately clears up any questions on the topic. The Hebrew word, which unfortunately is translated “replenish” in the King James Version of 1611, does not mean to “replenish.” That word is male’, and means simply “to fill” (Davidson, 1863, p. 488; cf., Brown, Driver, and Briggs, 1962, p. 22; see also, Harris, Archer, and Waltke, 1980, 1:505-506). Interesting is the fact that this very same word is used in Genesis 1:22 where the command is given by God to “fill the waters of the seas.” Later versions of the Bible (ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV, et al.) have rendered the verb properly as merely “fill.”

Also of interest in this regard is the fact that not even the Scofield Reference Bible (which so adamantly defends the Gap Theory in its “Notes”) makes an argument for a “pre-Adamic” race on the basis of Genesis 1:28, and has changed its KJV text at this point (and in Genesis 9:1) by substituting “fill” for “replenish.” I also might note that the Gap Theory’s leading spokesman (until his death), Arthur C. Custance, acknowledged that the Hebrew male’ means only “to fill” (1976, p. 314). Neither does male’ mean to “refill” or “repopulate” in Genesis 9:1. Rather, its meaning is “to bring forth abundantly” (Workman, 1982, p. 185-204). Of the more than 300 times the KJVuses the word male’, it is translated by the word “replenish” only seven times, and even those seven could be rendered correctly as “fill” (Morris, 1976, p. 76).

I might add as a concluding remark that the whole idea of pre-Adamic beings living on the Earth prior to the creation week of Genesis 1 is incorrect. Paul, through inspiration, plainly stated that Adam was “the first man” (1 Corinthians 15:45), and that through Adam’s sin death entered the world (Romans 5:12; 8:20-22; 1 Corinthians 15:21). Certain supporters of the Gap Theory, albeit perhaps inadvertently, have set forth a theory that causes Scripture to contradict itself. If Adam was the first, none existed before him. If death to the race came through his sin (and Paul plainly affirmed that it did), then no one could have died before that sin/death. In providing answers to Bible questions, whatever else we do, we must be careful not to suggest answers that pit the Bible against itself. The Gap Theory does just that, and therefore must be rejected
 7 years ago '08        #71
GrownmanJ 21 heat pts21
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 CuZzA said:
@GrownmanJ

I got this from
Yea I see, I just read it from that website. Carry on...
 7 years ago '08        #72
GrownmanJ 21 heat pts21
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 GBREEZE said:
I noticed you didn't respond about Easter or Halloween or Harvest Festivals....... Also, if your book does not say to celebrate Christmas then why would you??? Let's be real, money is the root of all evil, and Christmas in our society is all based around people spending money.....Satan is making a mockery of GOD. The term santa is derived from Satan. What do they say about Santa? He's making list, checking it twice, he knows who naughty and nice. That's saying he's is omnipotent, all seeing, all knowing. Really? Santa or Satan all seeing all knowing? Huh. The reindeer that santa rides on represents the stag God that the occult worship. That's right stag=reindeer, which in turn represents Satan. Christmas is not what most think it is. Remember, learn not the way of the heathen.

Lastly, I can honestly say that I don't believe that lets say Unboontu in Phillipines that's lives his whole life without ever even hearing about Christ, and lives a morally correct life, never lies, steals, or cheats, but prays to a different God is going to the lake of fire. Your religion states simply if you dont believe in Christ you go to hell. What about all those good hard working, morally ethic people that do not celebrate your God? You believe they are going to hell for living a clean, godly life? They are punished for being good human beings?? That makes 0 sense. Which is why everyone thinks their religion is the truth. Religion has caused so many wars and deaths. So I have a personal relationship with God, I don't need a book or a statue to pray to. I know I am not perfect, and do not claim to be. I ask for forgiveness everyday, and I love God.
There is no such thing as a 'good' person(might sound far-fetched to some). Just because you do this or that does not give you that title. If so, this would seperate those being better than others. God does not condone that. Which is why Jesus is the only way. One person can never say they are better than me just because they have more money or have accomplished more deeds. Everyone is one Jesus away from Heaven...
 7 years ago '10        #73
GBREEZE 260 heat pts260
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 GrownmanJ said:
There is no such thing as a 'good' person(might sound far-fetched to some). Just because you do this or that does not give you that title. If so, this would seperate those being better than others. God does not condone that. Which is why Jesus is the only way. One person can never say they are better than me just because they have more money or have accomplished more deeds. Everyone is one Jesus away from Heaven...

You totally missed the point. This person does everything "good" according to your book, except worship Jesus. There is such a thing called a "good person" lol. So you think a serial k!ller that r*pes children is a good dude cause he believes in Jesus? OK. Also, if this person has never heard of Jesus I suppose that's his fault right? His religion is saying the same thing, worship "allah" or go to lake of fire. There is a huge chance this person has never heard of anything but allah because of the region he lives in. But your God does condone worship and celebration of pagan holidays? How do you know your religion is right? YOU DON'T. GTFOH.....


Last edited by GBREEZE; 11-06-2010 at 09:54 PM..
 7 years ago '06        #74
CuZzA 17 heat pts17
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 GBREEZE said:
I noticed you didn't respond about Easter or Halloween or Harvest Festivals....... Also, if your book does not say to celebrate Christmas then why would you??? Let's be real, money is the root of all evil, and Christmas in our society is all based around people spending money.....Satan is making a mockery of GOD. The term santa is derived from Satan. What do they say about Santa? He's making list, checking it twice, he knows who naughty and nice. That's saying he's is omnipotent, all seeing, all knowing. Really? Santa or Satan all seeing all knowing? Huh. The reindeer that santa rides on represents the stag God that the occult worship. That's right stag=reindeer, which in turn represents Satan. Christmas is not what most think it is. Remember, learn not the way of the heathen.

Lastly, I can honestly say that I don't believe that lets say Unboontu in Phillipines that's lives his whole life without ever even hearing about Christ, and lives a morally correct life, never lies, steals, or cheats, but prays to a different God is going to the lake of fire. Your religion states simply if you dont believe in Christ you go to hell. What about all those good hard working, morally ethic people that do not celebrate your God? You believe they are going to hell for living a clean, godly life? They are punished for being good human beings?? That makes 0 sense. Which is why everyone thinks their religion is the truth. Religion has caused so many wars and deaths. So I have a personal relationship with God, I don't need a book or a statue to pray to. I know I am not perfect, and do not claim to be. I ask for forgiveness everyday, and I love God.
I'm going to hit this in three different points: How can a God of love send people to hell? What about people who haven't heard about Jesus? And what about people who are unable to hear about Jesus?

Firstly, hell means total separation from everything good. The flames described in the Bible may be a picture language, but the reality they represent is no figment of the imagination. One of the reasons hell exists is because of the seriousness with which God takes the decisions of men and women. If we choose to reject Him, His offer of life and way of escape from all the dirtiness in the world, He refuses to overrule our decision. He won't force us to accept His love - this would rob us of the privilege of choice, and make use mere robots - not humans. So we have to take the consequences of our decisions. This means that, by choosing to live without God, we have indeed chosen to live without God, now and forever.
It is no use asking why we can't opt to live without God in this life and to live with Him in the next. The question completely misses the point about the radical nature of our choice. For example, suppose we choose not to have any children of our own and then, at age 80, change our minds and want to have grown-up children around to look after us. By then it's too late. Our earlier decision had inevitable consequences. So it is with our decision about God. There comes a point (death) when our earlier decision is too far gone to change, which means we have chosen to spend eternity living in the presence of our own sinfulness and in the absence of God.
All this shows that, from from God sending 'good' people to hell, they send themselves. After all, it would be unreasonable to blame the doctor for my ill health if I refuse to take the medicine he prescribed. The divine doctor has diagnosed the sin-sickness of mankind and offered a foregiveness-cure. If we refuse or ignore the offer, we will have to live with the disease. This is what hell is - living after death with all our worst traits still raging inside us, only now they are unrestrained by God or social convention, a seething mass of unforgiven vices and unresolved conflicts. God does not want anyone to go to hell (1 Timothy 2:4), so he has prepared a way (Jesus) for the human race to escape its horrors. He is in the business of getting people into heaven, not sending them to hell.

Now, it does seem unfair that God should judge people when they haven't had the chance to hear about Jesus (I liked your example of 'Unboontu', who resides in the Philippines). Well let's get one thing clear from the start - God is going to act fairly. That is His nature - just, fair and compassionate. This much is guaranteed: when every human being comes face to face with their Creator, no one will be able to complain that they get a raw deal.
God has given two clues about Himself to every person on Earth. The first is the world about us - its beauty, order and design. Live in my house while I am away, and my books, CDs and the state of my garden will tell you a great deal about me even though we may never have met. Live in God's world, and the discerning person will notice the marks of His ownership everywhere. The second clue is the conscience in all of us, that inner voice which keeps us uncomfortable when we do what we know to be wrong. It points out that we can't even live up to our own standards. It's a constant reminder, put there by God, that we need help to become the people we would like to be.
Unfortunately, nobody has ever lived up to their own standards, let alone God's, so Jesus came to give us new power to do the right thing. There is no way to get this power except through His death and resurrection. However, this does not necessarily mean than an individual must be aware of Jesus' actions on her or her behalf in order to receive its benefits.
When slavery was abolished in the British empire in 1833, thousands of people in Africa were made safe from the threat of captivity and abduction to the West Indies and the Americas. Many of them knew nothing about the British Government and even less about the act of Parliament which guaranteed their freedom. Despite this ignorance, they enjoyed the freedom the act obtained for them. In the same way, any person anywhere who is really sorry for the wrong in their lives and throws themselves completely on God's mercy for their salvation can enjoy the benefits of the Christian message, even though they do not know the facts about Jesus' death and resurrection.

Now in terms of the people who are unable to hear about Jesus, this question is similar to the last. Usually people want to include in this question two different groups: those who were born before Jesus came, and those who do not have the capacity to understand the Christian message, such as children who die in infancy or people with learning difficulties.
First, throughout the Bible, the way to God is the same - by faith in God's mercy - and, not even in the Old Testament, by keeping the commandments. All the ancient heroes of the Bible who are said to have pleased God did so by faith. He accepted their faith on the basis of what Jesus was going to do. They enjoyed the benefits of Jesus' death and resurrection even though it had not yet happened. I may, for example, get my girlfriend a gift on the strength of a pay rise I have been promised. She experiences the benefits of the increase before I get the money because I know it is coming. Similarly, God chose to accept people in Old Testament times on the strength of what He knew was coming, in response to their faith.
Secondly, people who don't have the ability to understand the Christian message will not be judged as if they did. God is perfectly fair and understands their limitations better than we do: they will not be automatically damned because of their inability to grasp His message. The Bible does, however, indicate clearly the people who are going to be judged - those who reject the message, and those who hear it but never get round to making a decision about it. If you are reading what I'm writing, you have the capacity to understand the facts about Jesus Christ. Very young babies and people with terribly damaged minds would seem incapable of either the rejection or the delaying tactics the Bible so strongly condemns.
God does not want anyone to be lost, and He is deeply concerned about every human being. When he expressed special concern for the weak and defenceless in society, we can be certain that He has tragic circumstances, like the death of a baby, near to His heart. We know He will do the fair and just thing.
 7 years ago '06        #75
CuZzA 17 heat pts17
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 GBREEZE said:
You totally missed the point. This person does everything "good" according to your book, except worship Jesus. There is such a thing called a "good person" lol. So you think a serial k!ller that r*pes children is a good dude cause he believes in Jesus? OK. Also, if this person has never heard of Jesus I suppose that's his fault right? His religion is saying the same thing, worship "allah" or go to lake of fire. There is a huge chance this person has never heard of anything but allah because of the region he lives in. But your God does condone worship and celebration of pagan holidays? How do you know your religion is right? YOU DON'T. GTFOH.....
No, there is no such thing as a good person. By society's standards, there is such a thing as a good person. You yourself may see yourself as a good person. But by God's standards (Romans 3:23 says: 'For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God'), we are all bad people. But it's not a case of good person/bad person. It's a case of repentant and unrepentant. We're all bad people, because we have ALL fall short of the glory of God. The glory of God is His standard. His standard is absolute perfection (Jesus Christ - He never sinned). Once we sin just once, we have already fallen short of his perfection. Hence, we are not perfect. So what do we do when we sin? We go to Jesus for forgiveness.
 11-06-2010, 10:03 PM         #76
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 CuZzA said:
3) I obviously believe in creation. Evolution is a farce. Descendants of monkeys? Really?
See thats whats cool about this argument, I literally don't have to do anything but ask questions and you k!ll your own credibility

Let me guess you won't believe in evolution until you see a monkey evolve in front of your face
 7 years ago '06        #77
Blockburner28 65 heat pts65
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CuZza is laying it down.
 7 years ago '10        #78
GBREEZE 260 heat pts260
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 CuZzA said:
I'm going to hit this in three different points: How can a God of love send people to hell? What about people who haven't heard about Jesus? And what about people who are unable to hear about Jesus?

Firstly, hell means total separation from everything good. The flames described in the Bible may be a picture language, but the reality they represent is no figment of the imagination. One of the reasons hell exists is because of the seriousness with which God takes the decisions of men and women. If we choose to reject Him, His offer of life and way of escape from all the dirtiness in the world, He refuses to overrule our decision. He won't force us to accept His love - this would rob us of the privilege of choice, and make use mere robots - not humans. So we have to take the consequences of our decisions. This means that, by choosing to live without God, we have indeed chosen to live without God, now and forever.
It is no use asking why we can't opt to live without God in this life and to live with Him in the next. The question completely misses the point about the radical nature of our choice. For example, suppose we choose not to have any children of our own and then, at age 80, change our minds and want to have grown-up children around to look after us. By then it's too late. Our earlier decision had inevitable consequences. So it is with our decision about God. There comes a point (death) when our earlier decision is too far gone to change, which means we have chosen to spend eternity living in the presence of our own sinfulness and in the absence of God.
All this shows that, from from God sending 'good' people to hell, they send themselves. After all, it would be unreasonable to blame the doctor for my ill health if I refuse to take the medicine he prescribed. The divine doctor has diagnosed the sin-sickness of mankind and offered a foregiveness-cure. If we refuse or ignore the offer, we will have to live with the disease. This is what hell is - living after death with all our worst traits still raging inside us, only now they are unrestrained by God or social convention, a seething mass of unforgiven vices and unresolved conflicts. God does not want anyone to go to hell (1 Timothy 2:4), so he has prepared a way (Jesus) for the human race to escape its horrors. He is in the business of getting people into heaven, not sending them to hell.

Now, it does seem unfair that God should judge people when they haven't had the chance to hear about Jesus (I liked your example of 'Unboontu', who resides in the Philippines). Well let's get one thing clear from the start - God is going to act fairly. That is His nature - just, fair and compassionate. This much is guaranteed: when every human being comes face to face with their Creator, no one will be able to complain that they get a raw deal.
God has given two clues about Himself to every person on Earth. The first is the world about us - its beauty, order and design. Live in my house while I am away, and my books, CDs and the state of my garden will tell you a great deal about me even though we may never have met. Live in God's world, and the discerning person will notice the marks of His ownership everywhere. The second clue is the conscience in all of us, that inner voice which keeps us uncomfortable when we do what we know to be wrong. It points out that we can't even live up to our own standards. It's a constant reminder, put there by God, that we need help to become the people we would like to be.
Unfortunately, nobody has ever lived up to their own standards, let alone God's, so Jesus came to give us new power to do the right thing. There is no way to get this power except through His death and resurrection. However, this does not necessarily mean than an individual must be aware of Jesus' actions on her or her behalf in order to receive its benefits.
When slavery was abolished in the British empire in 1833, thousands of people in Africa were made safe from the threat of captivity and abduction to the West Indies and the Americas. Many of them knew nothing about the British Government and even less about the act of Parliament which guaranteed their freedom. Despite this ignorance, they enjoyed the freedom the act obtained for them. In the same way, any person anywhere who is really sorry for the wrong in their lives and throws themselves completely on God's mercy for their salvation can enjoy the benefits of the Christian message, even though they do not know the facts about Jesus' death and resurrection.

Now in terms of the people who are unable to hear about Jesus, this question is similar to the last. Usually people want to include in this question two different groups: those who were born before Jesus came, and those who do not have the capacity to understand the Christian message, such as children who die in infancy or people with learning difficulties.
First, throughout the Bible, the way to God is the same - by faith in God's mercy - and, not even in the Old Testament, by keeping the commandments. All the ancient heroes of the Bible who are said to have pleased God did so by faith. He accepted their faith on the basis of what Jesus was going to do. They enjoyed the benefits of Jesus' death and resurrection even though it had not yet happened. I may, for example, get my girlfriend a gift on the strength of a pay rise I have been promised. She experiences the benefits of the increase before I get the money because I know it is coming. Similarly, God chose to accept people in Old Testament times on the strength of what He knew was coming, in response to their faith.
Secondly, people who don't have the ability to understand the Christian message will not be judged as if they did. God is perfectly fair and understands their limitations better than we do: they will not be automatically damned because of their inability to grasp His message. The Bible does, however, indicate clearly the people who are going to be judged - those who reject the message, and those who hear it but never get round to making a decision about it. If you are reading what I'm writing, you have the capacity to understand the facts about Jesus Christ. Very young babies and people with terribly damaged minds would seem incapable of either the rejection or the delaying tactics the Bible so strongly condemns.
God does not want anyone to be lost, and He is deeply concerned about every human being. When he expressed special concern for the weak and defenceless in society, we can be certain that He has tragic circumstances, like the death of a baby, near to His heart. We know He will do the fair and just thing.
I hear you bro, some of that makes sense, but once again there is no certainty of Unboontu would be judged either way. But if we go strictly off what the Bible states, its believe in Jesus or non-believers are going downstairs. If you are Christian you have to believe that. Thats what your book states. And as far as the Holy Trinity goes, that's all rooted in paganism as well. Where did this start? Ancient Egypt. That's where all major monotheistic religions started. In the Egyptian myth, Horus and his father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable, as in “I and my Father are one.” John 10:30. Egypt, where the myth of Osiris was originated, shares borders with Palestine, where Jesus lived. Ancient Egyptians, just as the Christians, recognized in words the unity of the Godhead, while worshipping many deities that possessed certain influence on human affairs. Ancient Egyptians acknowledged One infinite God, Almighty, and Creator but added the confusing concept of trinity to the Unity of God. This is against all the teachings of all the Prophets before and after Jesus. This is the eternal Satanic step by step to confuse humans.
Ancient Egypt had the concept of the trinity first, except it was Osirus-Isis-Horus.


Last edited by GBREEZE; 11-06-2010 at 10:15 PM..
 7 years ago '06        #79
CuZzA 17 heat pts17
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 -BigC- said:
See thats whats cool about this argument, I literally don't have to do anything but ask questions and you k!ll your own credibility

Let me guess you won't believe in evolution until you see a monkey evolve in front of your face
Christians and non-Christians alike often disagree about whether the 'Theory of Evolution' is accurate. Those who express doubts about the theory are often labelled 'unscientific' or 'backwards' by some in the pro-evolution camp. At times, the popular perception of evolution seems to be that it has been proven beyond all doubt and there are no scientific obstacles left for it. In reality, there are quite a few scientific flaws in the theory that provide reasons to be sceptical. Granted, none of these questions necessarily disproves evolution, but they do show how the theory is less than settled.

Evolutionary scientists mock creation and/or intelligent design as unscientific and not worthy of scientific examination. In order for something to be considered a 'science', they argue that it must be able to be observed and tested; it must be 'naturalistic'. Creation is, by definition, 'supernatural'. God and the supernatural cannot be observed or tested (so the argument goes); therefore, creation and/or intelligent design cannot be considered science. Of course, neither can evolution be observed or tested, but that does not seem to be an issue with evolutionists. As a result, all data is filtered through the preconceived, presupposed, and pre-accepted theory of evolution, without alternate explanations being considered.

However, the origin of the universe and the origin of life cannot be tested or observed. Both creation and evolution are faith-based systems in regards to origins. Neither can be tested because we cannot go back billions (or thousands, depending on what you believe) of years to observe the origin of the universe or of life in the universe. Evolutionary scientists reject creation on grounds that would logically force them to also reject evolution as a scientific explanation of origins. Evolution, at least in regard to origins, does not fit the definition of 'science' any more than creation does. Evolution is supposedly the only explanation of origins that can be tested; therefore it is the only theory of origins that can be considered 'scientific'. This is absolute rubbish. Scientists who advocate evolution are rejecting a plausible theory of origins without even honestly examining its merits, because it does not fit their illogically narrow definition of 'science'.
 7 years ago '06        #80
CuZzA 17 heat pts17
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 GBREEZE said:
I hear you bro, some of that makes sense, but once again there is no certainty of Unboontu would be judged either way. But if we go strictly off what the Bible states, its believe in Jesus or non-believers are going downstairs. If you are Christian you have to believe that. Thats what your book states. And as far as the Holy Trinity goes, that's all rooted in paganism as well. Where did this start? Ancient Egypt. That's where all major monotheistic religions started. In the Egyptian myth, Horus and his father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable, as in “I and my Father are one.” John 10:30. Egypt, where the myth of Osiris was originated, shares borders with Palestine, where Jesus lived. Ancient Egyptians, just as the Christians, recognized in words the unity of the Godhead, while worshipping many deities that possessed certain influence on human affairs. Ancient Egyptians acknowledged One infinite God, Almighty, and Creator but added the confusing concept of trinity to the Unity of God. This is against all the teachings of all the Prophets before and after Jesus. This is the eternal Satanic step by step to confuse humans.
Ancient Egypt had the same thing, except it was Osirus-Isis-Horus.
I'm going to redirect you over to here:
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