Why do some consider Joe Montana the greatest QB ever over Peyton Manning?

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 7 years ago '05        #61
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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Most important stat is that Montana didn't play in an era where their were 16 regular season games I believe.. So Manning stats might look a little inflated next to Joe's. If Manning can win two more rings, I'd say he's the GOAT QB though.. Might be the smartest player in the history of the NFL..
 7 years ago '04        #62
King Kusanagi 36 heat pts36
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Joe Montana was the only QB who was compared to Joe Namath...

There's nothing more to be said.

/Thread
 10-01-2010, 10:11 AM         #63
Illstreet 
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 slimgangsta18 said:
Joe Montana was the only QB who was compared to Joe Namath...

There's nothing more to be said.

/Thread
Huh?

Namath isn't even Top 20...
 7 years ago '04        #64
King Kusanagi 36 heat pts36
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 Illstreet said:
Huh?

Namath isn't even Top 20...
why he isnt?



Last edited by King Kusanagi; 10-01-2010 at 10:22 AM..
 10-01-2010, 10:18 AM         #65
Illstreet 
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 smokeweed101. said:
Montana won two before Rice, with Clark and Craig (a back) as his leading receivers. He had great defense but was good long before Rice.

The Pats had a ten point lead cut to seven in their last SB win (no game winning kick), and before that the Pats defense broke down to the Panthers, Brady threw 3 touchdowns and was torching them second half.
There is something to be said about when Montana left, Steve Young Stepped in and was a HOFer... Jerry Rice went the Raiders, was still a Pro-Bowler.

Brady went down for the season?... Matt Cassell was balling his a.ss off after having not started a game since High School.

The Colts bring in Painter...

I'll let you tell it.

And that is not something that can be ignored... As I feel it is one of the key reasons why Manning is so great... His ability to make the WR's better because they play with him...

Harrison wasn't some incredible reciever with Jim Harbaugh... And Reggie Wayne wasn't THAT NICE on some Andre Johnson s**t at Miami...

Dallas Clark... Brandon Stokely... Austin Collie... Peirre Garcon...

What the common theme here?... When they started playing with Manning, they got that much better.

Can't say enough about Manning as to this aspect.
 10-01-2010, 10:29 AM         #66
Illstreet 
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 slimgangsta18 said:
why he isnt?
Because besides a single Prediction and Upset, dude's career wasn't that great...

I ain't gonna name 20, but I'll name like 10. Which of these QB's was he better than?:

Dan Marino
Peyton Manning
Joe Montana
Tom Brady
Johnny Unitas
John Elway
Brett Favre
Terry Bradshaw
Bart Starr
Kurt Warner
Roger Staubach
Steve Young
Troy Aikman

s**t I'll give you one... Namath isn't even better than Brees all time after last year.
 7 years ago '04        #67
King Kusanagi 36 heat pts36
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 Illstreet said:
Because besides a single Prediction and Upset, dude's career wasn't that great...

I ain't gonna name 20, but I'll name like 10. Which of these QB's was he better than?:

Dan Marino
Peyton Manning
Joe Montana
Tom Brady
Johnny Unitas
John Elway
Brett Favre
Terry Bradshaw
Bart Starr
Kurt Warner
Roger Staubach
Steve Young
Troy Aikman

s**t I'll give you one... Namath isn't even better than Brees all time after last year.

He's Top 20, I've answered your response you made. He's Still a GOAT & to be compared to a football legend is an honor.
 10-01-2010, 10:39 AM         #68
smokeweed101. 
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 Illstreet said:
There is something to be said about when Montana left, Steve Young Stepped in and was a HOFer... Jerry Rice went the Raiders, was still a Pro-Bowler.

Brady went down for the season?... Matt Cassell was balling his a.ss off after having not started a game since High School.

The Colts bring in Painter...

I'll let you tell it.

And that is not something that can be ignored... As I feel it is one of the key reasons why Manning is so great... His ability to make the WR's better because they play with him...

Harrison wasn't some incredible reciever with Jim Harbaugh... And Reggie Wayne wasn't THAT NICE on some Andre Johnson s**t at Miami...

Dallas Clark... Brandon Stokely... Austin Collie... Peirre Garcon...

What the common theme here?... When they started playing with Manning, they got that much better.

Can't say enough about Manning as to this aspect.
Same could be said for several other QBs, Brady and Montana without Rice/Moss combined for 5 championships and solid regular seasons, and Young could step into most offenses and do good, he is top 10 regardless.

Bringing up the Cassel argument is stupid, what about the fact Peyton's only championship run was backed by a defense bailing his 7 INTs, and a run game that rushed for 190 yards in the SB, his SB numbers are: 2 TDs and 2 INTs (one in the clutch), Bradys: 7 TDs 1 INT (thrown in the 4th but he returned with a score), Montana: 11 TDs 0 INT.

Don't brag about his accomplishments and avoid his flaws, he is no where near perfect.
 7 years ago '05        #69
lilmeaty6122 
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 smokeweed101. said:
Montana won two before Rice, with Clark and Craig (a back) as his leading receivers. He had great defense but was good long before Rice.

The Pats had a ten point lead cut to seven in their last SB win (no game winning kick), and before that the Pats defense broke down to the Panthers, Brady threw 3 touchdowns and was torching them second half.
The Panthers countered on their next possession. Foster started the drive with a 9-yard run and a 7-yard reception. After that, Delhomme completed a 19-yard pass to Muhammad, followed by a 31-yard completion to receiver Ricky Proehl. Then Proehl, who caught the fourth quarter game tying touchdown pass against the Patriots in Super Bowl x*xVI 2 years earlier for the St. Louis Rams, finished the drive with a 12-yard touchdown reception. Kasay's ensuing extra point tied the game, 29-29, with 1:08 to play in regulation and it appeared that the game would be the first Super Bowl ever to go into overtime.
However, Kasay kicked the ensuing kickoff out of bounds, giving New England the ball on their own 40-yard line. Brady calmly led the Patriots offense down the field with a 13-yard pass to Brown on second down. An offensive pass interference penalty on Brown pushed New England back to their own 43-yard line, but another 13-yard reception to Brown and a 4-yard pass to Graham brought up a critical 3rd down and 3 from the Carolina 40-yard line. The Panthers defense could not prevent the Patriots from gaining the first down, as Brady completed a clutch 17-yard pass to Branch. On the next play, Vinatieri kicked a 41-yard field goal to give New England the lead, 32-29, with four seconds left in the game.

I copy pasted from Wikipedia ALL 3 GAMES HAVE Vinatieri kicking field goals
 10-01-2010, 10:43 AM         #70
Illstreet 
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 slimgangsta18 said:
He's Top 20, I've answered your response you made. He's Still a GOAT & to be compared to a football legend is an honor.
Do you understand what GOAT means?

It means Greatest Of All Time.

There is only one.

So no, Namath is not a "GOAT"... By anyone's measure... Not even Jets fans will tell you that s**t.
 10-01-2010, 10:47 AM         #71
smokeweed101. 
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 lilmeaty6122 said:
The Panthers countered on their next possession. Foster started the drive with a 9-yard run and a 7-yard reception. After that, Delhomme completed a 19-yard pass to Muhammad, followed by a 31-yard completion to receiver Ricky Proehl. Then Proehl, who caught the fourth quarter game tying touchdown pass against the Patriots in Super Bowl x*xVI 2 years earlier for the St. Louis Rams, finished the drive with a 12-yard touchdown reception. Kasay's ensuing extra point tied the game, 29-29, with 1:08 to play in regulation and it appeared that the game would be the first Super Bowl ever to go into overtime.
However, Kasay kicked the ensuing kickoff out of bounds, giving New England the ball on their own 40-yard line. Brady calmly led the Patriots offense down the field with a 13-yard pass to Brown on second down. An offensive pass interference penalty on Brown pushed New England back to their own 43-yard line, but another 13-yard reception to Brown and a 4-yard pass to Graham brought up a critical 3rd down and 3 from the Carolina 40-yard line. The Panthers defense could not prevent the Patriots from gaining the first down, as Brady completed a clutch 17-yard pass to Branch. On the next play, Vinatieri kicked a 41-yard field goal to give New England the lead, 32-29, with four seconds left in the game.

I copy pasted from Wikipedia ALL 3 GAMES HAVE Vinatieri kicking field goals
You said game winning, being up by ten, giving up a score and then winning by 3 isn't a game winner. (Against the Eagles) Also if you think Brady wasn't nice in 03's Bowl throwing for 350 and 3 TDs and leading them back each time necessary (outside the one interception) then I have nothing more to say.
 10-01-2010, 10:52 AM         #72
Illstreet 
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 smokeweed101. said:
Same could be said for several other QBs, Brady and Montana without Rice/Moss combined for 5 championships and solid regular seasons, and Young could step into most offenses and do good, he is top 10 regardless.

Bringing up the Cassel argument is stupid, what about the fact Peyton's only championship run was backed by a defense bailing his 7 INTs, and a run game that rushed for 190 yards in the SB, his SB numbers are: 2 TDs and 2 INTs (one in the clutch), Bradys: 7 TDs 1 INT (thrown in the 4th but he returned with a score), Montana: 11 TDs 0 INT.

Don't brag about his accomplishments and avoid his flaws, he is no where near perfect.
Steve Young is not a even a top 10 QB right now, let alone regardless of whether he landed with Rice or not.

Bringing Cassell into the argument is not stupid... It's perfectly valid.

And I never said Peyton was perfect. He's not...

But look at what he did with that team last year... They almost went undefeated... That Roster. There's just no way around it. It's baffling.

And I think your best Argument lies with Championships... Which is perfectly valid. That's where I would argue if I was a Brady fan.

Of course then the person arguing against could get into the whole tuck rule bulls**t... The Taping/Cheating bulls**t... The fact that so many of them were won on Vinetari's leg in the clutch, as opposed to Brady's arm for a game ending Touchdown... ect. ect. ect.
 10-01-2010, 10:58 AM         #73
smokeweed101. 
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 Illstreet said:
But look at what he did with that team last year... They almost went undefeated...
Almost? You mean like Brady right? Its not even about the titles, but to me he doesn't give his team the best shot to win in a 'win or go home' situation, he is prone to turn over the ball more than Brady, and his only superior number is yards, which is related to having a better core for most of the decade, and irrelevant when he is throwing away chances in the big game.

I see, lets just agree to disagree because now you are getting silly, to me Montana is best with Brady and Peyton neck and neck, right now its not 'obvious' or 'undisputed' that Peyton is better, but we won't convince each other either way as your reply has shown extreme bias and hate.
 10-01-2010, 11:13 AM         #74
Illstreet 
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 smokeweed101. said:
Almost? You mean like Brady right? Its not even about the titles, but to me he doesn't give his team the best shot to win in a 'win or go home' situation, he is prone to turn over the ball more than Brady, and his only superior number is yards, which is related to having a better core for most of the decade, and irrelevant when he is throwing away chances in the big game.

I see, lets just agree to disagree because now you are getting silly, to me Montana is best with Brady and Peyton neck and neck, right now its not 'obvious' or 'undisputed' that Peyton is better, but we won't convince each other either way as your reply has shown extreme bias and hate.
Brady's 07 Team was STACKED Compared to the Colts last year... And you know this.

And Fair enough, as the exact same thing can be said for your posts...

And I don't hate Brady by the way.
 7 years ago '10        #75
hustlershope84 
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 smokeweed101. said:
Almost? You mean like Brady right? Its not even about the titles, but to me he doesn't give his team the best shot to win in a 'win or go home' situation, he is prone to turn over the ball more than Brady, and his only superior number is yards, which is related to having a better core for most of the decade, and irrelevant when he is throwing away chances in the big game.

I see, lets just agree to disagree because now you are getting silly, to me Montana is best with Brady and Peyton neck and neck, right now its not 'obvious' or 'undisputed' that Peyton is better, but we won't convince each other either way as your reply has shown extreme bias and hate.
statisically is this even a debate?
 7 years ago '09        #76
Brainwave 5389 heat pts5389
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You Can Agrue Stats Between These 2 All Day. But Joe Montana Came First. So, Therefore He Will Be Held At In Higher Reguard. I'm Pretty Sure Peyton Learned Something From Watching Joe Play. But Joe Learned Nothing From Watching Peyton Play.
 7 years ago '04        #77
GreatWhites 3 heat pts
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i say Peyton is the GOAT.

Montana is 2nd.

Marino is 3rd.

Brady is 4th.


i know yall been saying Peyton chokes in the Playoffs.....but if choking is almost guaranteed reaching the AFC Championship every year, then i'd love to choke.

and yall actin like the Regular Season means NOTHING.

thats bulls**t. the regular season is what gets u the chance to win the rings.....and Peyton gives his team a better chance at a ring than any QB in HISTORY.


the way he runs the no-huddle, reads defenses, calls audibles is UNMATCHED.


he is not only the best QB to play the game, he is the greatest & smartest Player to ever step onto a field.



plus, he's put up his GOD-Like Numbers in todays era......which is against BETTER athletes, Bigger & Stronger Players....


Montana, all due respect to him, would get murdered if he played in todays league. The faster, stronger players alone would definitely hurt his numbers.


theres less time to sit in the pocket in todays game. Manning has split-second decision making abilities that Joe never had. Joe was able to sit in the pocket for 3-5 seconds, easily.

Manning has about 2-4 seconds to release the ball once he's in the pocket.



not to mention, today's defensive schemes are a lot tougher to play against.


it's more strategy now than there used to be.


thats why:


Manning> Montana.
 7 years ago '10        #78
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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You can't be a GOAT with one ring or no ring.

Montana is the greatest 4-0 in the big game, and the best clutch QB of all time.

Greatness doesn't rely strictly on statistics, Peyton Manning is one of the smartest QB's of all time, but he sucks in the clutch in big games and is a perennial playoff failure minus one year.

Peyton Manning wins MVP because the media loves him, he didn't deserve it last year and he doesn't deserve it this year so far, but of course he's the frontrunner.


If you never played football please don't start with the technical aspect of Manning's game talk, we dont need you to regurgitate what Ron Jowarski left in your throat.
 7 years ago '10        #79
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 GreatWhites said:
i say Peyton is the GOAT.

Montana is 2nd.

Marino is 3rd.

Brady is 4th.


i know yall been saying Peyton chokes in the Playoffs.....but if choking is almost guaranteed reaching the AFC Championship every year, then i'd love to choke.

and yall actin like the Regular Season means NOTHING.

thats bulls**t. the regular season is what gets u the chance to win the rings.....and Peyton gives his team a better chance at a ring than any QB in HISTORY.


the way he runs the no-huddle, reads defenses, calls audibles is UNMATCHED.


he is not only the best QB to play the game, he is the greatest & smartest Player to ever step onto a field.



plus, he's put up his GOD-Like Numbers in todays era......which is against BETTER athletes, Bigger & Stronger Players....


Montana, all due respect to him, would get murdered if he played in todays league. The faster, stronger players alone would definitely hurt his numbers.


theres less time to sit in the pocket in todays game. Manning has split-second decision making abilities that Joe never had. Joe was able to sit in the pocket for 3-5 seconds, easily.

Manning has about 2-4 seconds to release the ball once he's in the pocket.



not to mention, today's defensive schemes are a lot tougher to play against.


it's more strategy now than there used to be.



thats why:


Manning> Montana.
Going to the AFC championship and losing is a good thing???

3-5 seconds and 2-4 seconds..........So if joe typically had 3 or 4 seconds, isnt that the same as Peyton?

Not to mention the league has so many rules in place to allow QB's to stay protected in the pocket and have the time to make those audibles. Get the fukk outta here, Dan Marino could throw 70 tds in a season playing in the league today.
 7 years ago '04        #80
dre03 
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 Pitts Gutta said:
I personally think Manning is the greatest ever. If you look at his stats vs Montana's there really isn't a comparison to me. I believe Montana only has the upper edge because of Super Bowl wns. But let's be real. Joe had Rice. Harrison wasn't Rice. Wayne isn't Rice. Why isn't Peyton just flat out considering the greatest?

Peyton Manning (through 12 seasons,3 games):
QB Rating: 95.6
Completion %: 64.9
Yards: 51,141
TD's: 375
Interceptions: 181

Joe Montana (15 seasons):
QB Rating: 92.3
Completion %: 63.2
Yards: 40,551
TD's: 273
Interceptions: 139
Joe Montana won a Super Bowl without Jerry Rice retard... He actually only had a good TE when he won his first Super Bowl... He turned a 2-14 team into a Super bowl winner in 2 years... Thats enough right there
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