Most Lifters are Still Beginners (Rippetoe Article)

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 10-08-2010, 11:29 PM         #21
MrAmazing  OP
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you can do overhead squats, squats, deadlifts, press, etc etc


any compound lift that makes you utilize the core is going to give you "abs"

i have never done 1 ab workout and i have pics that show my abs are better than 98% of ppl's on here....if only getting a 450 squat was as easy
 10-09-2010, 01:03 PM         #22
Infamous_01  OP
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Didnt feel like reading it all but just glanced at the routine. I saw he had squat, bench AND deadlift (the three biggest lifts you can do) in the same day pretty much three times a week. Sounds like a CNS destroyer to me. But I do agree that most lifters are still beginners. If you cant bench 200 and squat 300 then your a beginner.

Just get on west side for skinny bastard III by joe defranco stick with it for a while and you'll be amazed.


Last edited by Infamous_01; 10-09-2010 at 01:23 PM..
 10-09-2010, 01:06 PM         #23
Infamous_01  OP
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 MrAmazing said:
you can do overhead squats, squats, deadlifts, press, etc etc


any compound lift that makes you utilize the core is going to give you "abs"

i have never done 1 ab workout and i have pics that show my abs are better than 98% of ppl's on here....if only getting a 450 squat was as easy
Accessory core work is important and aids in those big compound lifts so I wouldn't neglect them, ESPECIALLY if you lift with a belt. When you start hitting big numbers it can prevent some serious injuries.


Last edited by Infamous_01; 10-09-2010 at 01:11 PM..
 7 years ago '04        #24
enetblazin4eva 4 heat pts
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 Infamous_01 said:
Didnt feel like reading it all but just glanced at the routine. I saw he had squat, bench AND deadlift (the three biggest lifts you can do) in the same day pretty much three times a week. Sounds like a CNS destroyer to me. But I do agree that most lifters are still beginners. If you cant bench 200 and squat 300 then your a beginner.

Just get on west side for skinny bastard III by joe defranco stick with it for a while and you'll be amazed.
Thats the whole point of this as compared to beginners who will do more sets of 'bicepts' than squat & deadlifts combined.
 7 years ago '05        #25
Rubix 
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 Infamous_01 said:
Accessory core work is important and aids in those big compound lifts so I wouldn't neglect them, ESPECIALLY if you lift with a belt. When you start hitting big numbers it can prevent some serious injuries.
like mr. amazing, i seldomly do any isolated exercises for my abs. i might do em maybe once a month..and even then, its just 100 situps while im watching tv or whatever but i never incorporate them into my workouts. most of my list are "advanced" (according to the chart on exrx.net) and i dont lift with a belt. ab workouts arent very important if u ask me. if u are properly engaging ur core during a squat, deadlift or good morning, thats enough imo.
 7 years ago '08        #26
DUCE 141 heat pts141
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so do i add weight every workout or every week?
 7 years ago '04        #27
matik23 
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I add 5 lbs every workout. If I stall, I deload 15% and then stay 5 lbs per week.
 10-10-2010, 09:52 PM         #28
Infamous_01  OP
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 enetblazin4eva said:
Thats the whole point of this as compared to beginners who will do more sets of 'bicepts' than squat & deadlifts combined.
Well of course for most people a push, pull and squat routine is the best but doing each of the biggest compound lifts multiple times a week? For the average person to pull that off the volume and intensity would have to be low. Maybe he did structured it well in his routine but I don't care to read much Mark Rippetoe has to say.
 7 years ago '04        #29
enetblazin4eva 4 heat pts
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 Infamous_01 said:
Well of course for most people a push, pull and squat routine is the best but doing each of the biggest compound lifts multiple times a week? For the average person to pull that off the volume and intensity would have to be low. Maybe he did structured it well in his routine but I don't care to read much Mark Rippetoe has to say.
:wtf:

A beginner will make more progress following this type of regiment.
 10-11-2010, 02:46 PM         #30
MrAmazing  OP
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 Infamous_01 said:
Accessory core work is important and aids in those big compound lifts so I wouldn't neglect them, ESPECIALLY if you lift with a belt. When you start hitting big numbers it can prevent some serious injuries.

Not really. I have a 535 pound DL raw at 170 pounds and again, I do NO ab workout. Again, in order to even lift this much, my core HAS to be 10x stonger than most people's. The core workout comes naturally....have you ever squatted more than 350? Go ATG and tell me that you don't engage you're core......in conclusion pretty much every compound lift requires you to stabilize the core.


/thread
 10-11-2010, 02:47 PM         #31
MrAmazing  OP
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 Infamous_01 said:
Well of course for most people a push, pull and squat routine is the best but doing each of the biggest compound lifts multiple times a week? For the average person to pull that off the volume and intensity would have to be low. Maybe he did structured it well in his routine but I don't care to read much Mark Rippetoe has to say.
No, if the average person is dedicated plus eats and sleeps enough he/she will be fine. If you think this is something, don't even start looking at the Russian squat training methods...you will probably die.
 10-11-2010, 06:51 PM         #32
Infamous_01  OP
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 MrAmazing said:
No, if the average person is dedicated plus eats and sleeps enough he/she will be fine. If you think this is something, don't even start looking at the Russian squat training methods...you will probably die.
I just pulled up that routine and correct me if this is the wrong routine.



You can see how the volume is regulated. You do warmup sets followed by two primer sets of 2 reps, then increase weight and do 6 sets of 2 reps. That volume is low compared to 5 sets of 5 reps on the three BIGGEST lifts three times a week.

I guarantee you if someone does 5x5 with squats, deadlifts and bench or similar movements 3 times a week at too high of an intensity they would run into problems very fast. Everyone has a genetic limit for workload and if we could all do huge movements like that every workout three times a week and progress every workout we'd be monsters.

A HUGE part of what separates us from bodybuilders is the ability to recover. No diet or amount of sleep can compensate or drastically alter this fact as you cant change your genetics. Now I never bashed the routine, I said it could have been structured well but I have yet to see a routine structured like that geared towards the average trainee by a professional trainer (And ive read alot of articles and routines from poliquin, loius simmons, dante, iron addict, mike mentzer, joe defranco, etc )


Last edited by Infamous_01; 10-11-2010 at 08:11 PM..
 10-11-2010, 08:09 PM         #33
Infamous_01  OP
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 MrAmazing said:
Not really. I have a 535 pound DL raw at 170 pounds and again, I do NO ab workout. Again, in order to even lift this much, my core HAS to be 10x stonger than most people's. The core workout comes naturally....have you ever squatted more than 350? Go ATG and tell me that you don't engage you're core......in conclusion pretty much every compound lift requires you to stabilize the core.

/thread
That's why it is called accessory work which are put into routines to compliment and aid big compound "money" lifts. No they are not mandatory but they do help. In no way am I trying to say that if you don't do them, you won't progress.
 10-11-2010, 08:26 PM         #34
MrAmazing  OP
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 Infamous_01 said:
I just pulled up that routine and correct me if this is the wrong routine.



You can see how the volume is regulated. You do warmup sets followed by two primer sets of 2 reps, then increase weight and do 6 sets of 2 reps. That volume is low compared to 5 sets of 5 reps on the three BIGGEST lifts three times a week.

I guarantee you if someone does 5x5 with squats, deadlifts and bench or similar movements 3 times a week at too high of an intensity they would run into problems very fast. Everyone has a genetic limit for workload and if we could all do huge movements like that every workout three times a week and progress every workout we'd be monsters.

A HUGE part of what separates us from bodybuilders is the ability to recover. No diet or amount of sleep can compensate or drastically alter this fact as you cant change your genetics. Now I never bashed the routine, I said it could have been structured well but I have yet to see a routine structured like that geared towards the average trainee by a professional trainer (And ive read alot of articles and routines from poliquin, loius simmons, dante, iron addict, mike mentzer, joe defranco, etc )
It's a 3x5 program. Most people have never even come close to their genetic limit, it's more used as a cop out. Do you want me to show example after example of people who have succeeded doing this program? Not to mention this book (Starting Strength) is pretty much standard reading for anyone thinking about starting to weight train.

Not to mention, I've had success with more clients doing this, than with a lot of other programs.

Have you ever read Starting Strength? Mark Rippetoe is one of the most respected coaches out there..since you were throwing out names. His program has it's own thread on BB.com because TONS of people start off with it, then branch off into whatever.


Last edited by MrAmazing; 10-11-2010 at 08:29 PM..
 10-11-2010, 08:28 PM         #35
MrAmazing  OP
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 Infamous_01 said:
That's why it is called accessory work which are put into routines to compliment and aid big compound "money" lifts. No they are not mandatory but they do help. In no way am I trying to say that if you don't do them, you won't progress.
Fair enough. I was just kind of throwing it out there, because I get alot of PM's asking what I do for "abs" and there is this big myth that you have to do "core" exercises. When really all my compound lifts REQUIRE you to engage the core.

I overhead squatted 250 and that was one of the most core intensive things ever hands down.
 10-11-2010, 08:38 PM         #36
Infamous_01  OP
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 MrAmazing said:
It's a 3x5 program. Most people have never even come close to their genetic limit, it's more used as a cop out. Do you want me to show example after example of people who have succeeded doing this program? Not to mention this book (Starting Strength) is pretty much standard reading for anyone thinking about starting to weight train.

Not to mention, I've had success with more clients doing this, than with a lot of other programs.

Have you ever read Starting Strength? Mark Rippetoe is one of the most respected coaches out there..since you were throwing out names. His program has it's own thread on BB.com because TONS of people start off with it, then branch off into whatever.
Well to be honest I skimmed through it fairly quickly which is why I kept saying it depends entirely on how he structured the routine (never discredited him). I skimmed it little more after you mentioned 3x5 and saw that it actually isn't 5x5 which for some reason comes to mind whenever I hear Mark Ripptoe. And it actually is structured good because deadlift is only 1x5, and squat and bench is only 3x5 so that volume is a lot less then 5x5 on all lifts.

Maybe that's why I get for jumping to conclusions before reading it all but when squatting, deadlift and benching 3 times a week for 5 sets of 5 reps hit me I was very skeptical.

Also, if you meant BB.com as in bodybuilding.com there is some good information on there but a LOT of garbage as well. There are many better lifting forums which are more heavily moderated.

And I've obviously never read starting strength either or I would have known what this routine was. The only thing I've seen from him was crossfit which is a program that seemed all over the place and was ridiculed by some of the top strength coaches, and even some of the trainers I personally know. After that I got a bad image of him stuck in my head.


Last edited by Infamous_01; 10-11-2010 at 08:58 PM..
 10-11-2010, 10:14 PM         #37
MrAmazing  OP
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 Infamous_01 said:
Well to be honest I skimmed through it fairly quickly which is why I kept saying it depends entirely on how he structured the routine (never discredited him). I skimmed it little more after you mentioned 3x5 and saw that it actually isn't 5x5 which for some reason comes to mind whenever I hear Mark Ripptoe. And it actually is structured good because deadlift is only 1x5, and squat and bench is only 3x5 so that volume is a lot less then 5x5 on all lifts.

Maybe that's why I get for jumping to conclusions before reading it all but when squatting, deadlift and benching 3 times a week for 5 sets of 5 reps hit me I was very skeptical.

Also, if you meant BB.com as in bodybuilding.com there is some good information on there but a LOT of garbage as well. There are many better lifting forums which are more heavily moderated.

And I've obviously never read starting strength either or I would have known what this routine was. The only thing I've seen from him was crossfit which is a program that seemed all over the place and was ridiculed by some of the top strength coaches, and even some of the trainers I personally know. After that I got a bad image of him stuck in my head.
No doubt. Well i suppose we agree then? This is like second logical argument I have actually had on boxden. Needless to say..I'm impressed.

BB.com does have a ton of garbage. I should know because im a miscer (troll face :dancingcool:). I was just saying the workout obviously works, because people who actually FOLLOW the program like it was designed see gains that are better than average.

Ahhhh Crossfit. Funny you bring that up as I am a Crossfit trainer and endurance coach . It's all over the place to people who don't understand the goals of it or GPP in general. We still have some of the top strength coaches a.ssociated with Crossfit (Louie, Mike Burgner). If you want to have a discussion about Crossfit, start up a new thread!
 10-12-2010, 09:29 AM         #38
Infamous_01  OP
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Agreed. Maybe one day I'll stop being lazy and actually read starting strength.

And louie from WSBB really supports crossfit? I have alot of respect for that guy so maybe it is a legit program.
 10-12-2010, 05:11 PM         #39
MrAmazing  OP
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Yup, he even hosts a crossfit powerlifting seminar :D


[pic - click to view]





^ click powerlifting.
 7 years ago '08        #40
N/A 2 heat pts
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 ajheightz said:
Idk how you suppose to do squats 3x a week. I can only do it twice a week and my legs be sore as fuk
I started on Monday, done both workouts so far, and yes the squats will have your legs f**ked up.... I had to get my workout in before my 12 hr work shift yesterday, I was suffering... Legs feel great today though.
Hopefully I can do this program for 3 or 4 months and see some great results.
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