Sep 2 - Stephen Hawking: God did NOT create the Universe

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 7 years ago '04        #441
HHS 1 heat pts
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 canal_boys said:
soo what? all these complex stuff created itself out of a big bang? the eco system, evolution of animals, the climate, diseases and cure for disease within nature, etc..all created itself as if it has intelligence..all you have to do is look at life in general and its proof that a higher power exist. have an open mind instead of calling people idiots when they disagree with you.
If that stuff couldn't come to be without a designing intelligence, because of its complexity, how could something as complex as "God" come to be without yet another designing intelligence?

BTW, all that occurred well after the "Big Bang," and while we perhaps still have some questions about the original of life, we already know the mechanisms through which it developed to the current state of complexity, and how the ecosystem works.


Last edited by HHS; 09-04-2010 at 01:27 PM..
 7 years ago '04        #442
dajerzeerat 5 heat pts
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man, steve is ugly.
 7 years ago '10        #443
beast mode 25 heat pts25
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 circleinsidebox said:
why do you argue with these people?

i'd like to have an intelligent discussion with you

you love s**tting on sheep, i'd love for you to s**t on me (if possibe) :)
you've yet to make a single logical point yet. you keep quoting verses from the bible which contradicts it's self so many times over then you improvise what you think "god" is saying or doing. you've been BEASTED
 7 years ago '10        #444
beast mode 25 heat pts25
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 canal_boys said:
soo what? all these complex stuff created itself out of a big bang? the eco system, evolution of animals, the climate, diseases and cure for disease within nature, etc..all created itself as if it has intelligence..all you have to do is look at life in general and its proof that a higher power exist. have an open mind instead of calling people idiots when they disagree with you.
ONCE again just because you can't comprehend complex things doesn't mean some god had created it. things do evolve on there own. so you think a higher poser is sittin around making diseases stronger just for the sake of it??? one thing to have an open mind.....another to be stupid
 7 years ago '05        #445
OG T Gutta N|M 9 heat pts
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 beast mode said:
school teaches what the word theory means. not once in my 4 years of high school did school claim theories were 100% fact.
So then why not teach religious beliefs of the universe and it's creation? Both are theories and equally valid, or invalid.

Point is, neither religion, nor these sciences have any answers, this thread is 21 pages, and instead of finding the real answers, you've got religious supports making their claims, science making theirs, and s**t still not found. Neither side seems very educated with their claims, yet somehow one feels more right than the other despite not having any answer.

 beast mode said:
yeah how stupid our medicine industry, and Psychology community is right??? i mean cause we all know faith healing work all the time right??? im more than sure there were depressed people before the actual diagnosis was made.
I doubt you realize how f**ked is our medicine and psychology communities actually are.

Again, we have all these diagnosis, ADD, ADHD, depression, etc(the psychology side). Newly "discovered"/made-up ways of describing behavior that people display that don't fit social norms. So instead of accepting that some people act in certain ways, you give them drugs(medicine) to mask and hope these symptoms go away, if they don't try another drug(they try other drugs not because of different chemistry, but because these concepts are made up, a new drug is tried until the "abnormal" "symptoms" are gone, but that doesn't mean this made up concept is cured, nor that it even exist).

Nobody complained of depression before the concept was created, no one had ADD, ADHD before someone made up the concept(the psychology community), these were viewed as abnormal behaviors, and given drugs to stop them, why? Because people aren't socially socialized to behave in certain ways, concepts are made up, largely to help, but there is profit in diagnosing certain behaviors and making medicine. Instead of realizing some people are born and act in certain ways, drugs are given, and when they don't work, another is given; instead of actually realizing there is no such thing as ADD, depression, etc, these concepts fufill and sustain the longevity of these profit driven "science" communities.

But this is far off-topic, point is neither religion or science has any room to call each other stupid or invalid, they both hold the same amount of ignorance/intelligence (however which you feel comfortable addressing them by), they both are faith driven.

You go back far enough, ask any question to any science, and they wont have the answers everytime.


Last edited by OG T Gutta N; 09-04-2010 at 04:00 PM..
 7 years ago '06        #446
canal_boys 8 heat pts
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 beast mode said:
ONCE again just because you can't comprehend complex things doesn't mean some god had created it. things do evolve on there own. so you think a higher poser is sittin around making diseases stronger just for the sake of it??? one thing to have an open mind.....another to be stupid
okay mr. know it all..explain your stance..if there is no higher power, higher intelligence, how did it all came to be?
 7 years ago '06        #447
canal_boys 8 heat pts
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 HHS said:
If that stuff couldn't come to be without a designing intelligence, because of its complexity, how could something as complex as "God" come to be without yet another designing intelligence?

BTW, all that occurred well after the "Big Bang," and while we perhaps still have some questions about the original of life, we already know the mechanisms through which it developed to the current state of complexity, and how the ecosystem works.
i don't believe in the god in the bible. i believe in a higher power beyond our comprehension. if there is something that created god, im open to it..its definitely more likely then everything created itself..look at everything in nature as an example: look how its as if everything is designed, from color, to animals, to plants can make us high, from the fact that we can see, we can hear, sound, everything around you..its as if it was all designed..it has to be a form of intelligence that can create variety within everything..

life created itself is the dumbest thing i ever heard..who created the law of physics? it created itself from nothingness?
 7 years ago '06        #448
beantown 74 heat pts74
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 Perfectibilist said:


s**ts hilarious
 7 years ago '06        #449
niceguy954 31 heat pts31
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damn this is 26 pages??

if you people want to believe we live for no purpose and when we die and just decompose in the dirt and thats it then go do that...the this whole thing called life is for nothing?? do you really want to believe that??
 7 years ago '05        #450
circleinsidebox 
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 beast mode said:
you've yet to make a single logical point yet. you keep quoting verses from the bible which contradicts it's self so many times over then you improvise what you think "god" is saying or doing. you've been BEASTED
BEASTED? i'm not quite aware of that term (it's not available in my pocket cambridge)

i asked for you to supply these "contradictions" in the bible you keep speaking of....

and i am certainly not improvising, i am stating the obvious....now please

post the contradictions if you are capable...
 7 years ago '04        #451
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 Cantankerous said:
So then why not teach religious beliefs of the universe and it's creation? Both are theories and equally valid, or invalid.
Because religion is not science, and they are not equally valid scientifically.


Last edited by HHS; 09-04-2010 at 05:12 PM..
 7 years ago '04        #452
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 canal_boys said:
i don't believe in the god in the bible. i believe in a higher power beyond our comprehension. if there is something that created god, im open to it..its definitely more likely then everything created itself..look at everything in nature as an example: look how its as if everything is designed, from color, to animals, to plants can make us high, from the fact that we can see, we can hear, sound, everything around you..its as if it was all designed..it has to be a form of intelligence that can create variety within everything..

life created itself is the dumbest thing i ever heard..who created the law of physics? it created itself from nothingness?
No one has claimed that life created itself. And you still haven't addressed the issue I raised, which is that your argument creates an infinite regression, and solves absolutely nothing.

If the complexity of life couldn't developed without a designing intelligence, then that complex intelligence couldn't have devloped without a designing intelligence, and that designing intelligence couldn't have developed without another designing intelligence, which couldn't have developed without yet another designing intelligence, and so on to infinity.

Are you seeing the problem? The concept of "God" is useless to answering your own question. If evolutionary theory doesn't provide a sufficient answer in your view, "God" does not either.


Last edited by HHS; 09-04-2010 at 05:05 PM..
 7 years ago '04        #453
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 niceguy954 said:
damn this is 26 pages??

if you people want to believe we live for no purpose and when we die and just decompose in the dirt and thats it then go do that...the this whole thing called life is for nothing?? do you really want to believe that??
1. Wanting to believe something is true doesn't make it true, so the question you just asked is pointless to the discussion at hand.

2. Not believing in god(s) does not mean that you can't create purpose in your life.
 7 years ago '05        #454
OG T Gutta N|M 9 heat pts
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 HHS said:
Because religion is not science, and they are not equally valid scientifically.
as smart as that may sound it's not. There is no science to our sciences, they are merely guesses, to simply put(because I've already explained), if you don't know the origin of how is something created/existed, then anything stated is simply working backwards.

So if the universe isn't created by God? Then how was the universe created, and for whatever way you explain, the thing(s) that created the universe, where do they come from, and so on.

and what if the universe is created by God? Who created God, where does that originate from?

Equally valid, because both are faith based (religion and science, on the fact that their main a.ssumption about the origin is true), how do you start to explain the inner workings of something, without knowing how the actual thing(in the case Universe) works(and how that effects/changes the things within it), and what it is composed of? Any further answer, is based on faith that your "science" is correct in it's a.ssumptions already, and both religion and science do this.

Religion says God, Science says _____x theory. Both are equally valid/invalid because the origin cannot be proven, and without that, you cannot make an educated/accurate a.ssumption about anything that exist within it(the universe).

We think we know something, but we are only guessing our a.sses off, either way, religion and "science."


Last edited by OG T Gutta N; 09-04-2010 at 05:29 PM..
 7 years ago '04        #455
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 Cantankerous said:
as smart as that may sound it's not. There is no science to our sciences, they are merely guesses, to simply put(because I've already explained), if you don't know the origin of how is something created/existed, then anything stated is simply working backwards.

So if the universe isn't created by God? Then how was the universe created, and for whatever way you explain, the thing(s) that created the universe, where do they come from, and so on.

and what if the universe is created by God? Who created God, where does that originate from?

Equally valid, because both are faith based (religion and science, on the fact that their main a.ssumption about the origin is true), how do you start to explain the inner workings of something, without knowing how the actual thing(in the case Universe) works(and how that effects/changes the things within it), and what it is composed of? Any further answer, is based on faith that your "science" is correct in it's a.ssumptions already, and both religion and science do this.

Religion says God, Science says _____x theory. Both are equally valid/invalid because the origin cannot be proven, and without that, you cannot make an educated/accurate a.ssumption about anything that exist within it(the universe).

We think we know something, but we are only guessing our a.sses off, either way, religion and "science."
Anything proposed by science is held up to the rigors of the scientific method, and ultimately must be testable and falsifiable before it is accepted. That is not true of religion, which is why it is unacceptable in a science classroom. Yes, science involves a certain amount of theory work, but despite the way some people may like conflate the terms, a theory is not just a blind guess, it is an explanation for gathered facts, and much theory will ultimately be proven wrong, but that fact in itself shows how it is not simply left up to faith.

So no, they are not equally valid.


Last edited by HHS; 09-04-2010 at 05:51 PM..
 7 years ago '08        #456
lifetimez 
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The falsifiability of science is one of its primary advantages. The falsifiability of religion is both logically, and emotionally (for adherents), impossible.

Why is this a good thing? Progress


Last edited by lifetimez; 09-04-2010 at 05:58 PM..
 7 years ago '06        #457
canal_boys 8 heat pts
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 HHS said:
No one has claimed that life created itself. And you still haven't addressed the issue I raised, which is that your argument creates an infinite regression, and solves absolutely nothing.

If the complexity of life couldn't developed without a designing intelligence, then that complex intelligence couldn't have devloped without a designing intelligence, and that designing intelligence couldn't have developed without another designing intelligence, which couldn't have developed without yet another designing intelligence, and so on to infinity.

Are you seeing the problem? The concept of "God" is useless to answering your own question. If evolutionary theory doesn't provide a sufficient answer in your view, "God" does not either.
there is no problem there at all..like i said earlier: god is something we cant comprehend at our primitive stage. so, i cant answer that question. but i know from life experience and everyday life in general, that all of this didn't create itself from nothingness..
 7 years ago '04        #458
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 canal_boys said:
there is no problem there at all..like i said earlier: god is something we cant comprehend at our primitive stage. so, i cant answer that question. but i know from life experience and everyday life in general, that all of this didn't create itself from nothingness..
So, you can't understand how life could reach this complexity without a designer, so your explanation is something else you can't understand. This is why religion and science shouldn't be conflated.
 7 years ago '05        #459
circleinsidebox 
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 circleinsidebox said:
beasted? I'm not quite aware of that term (it's not available in my pocket cambridge)

i asked for you to supply these "contradictions" in the bible you keep speaking of....

And i am certainly not improvising, i am stating the obvious....now please

post the contradictions if you are capable...
??????????????????????????????????????

(operation beast mode) donde estas MI AMIGO?????????????????
 7 years ago '05        #460
circleinsidebox 
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 Scoop said:
right...how would adam and eve know that
he couldn't unerstand it yet, but he was a child of His Father...

he was told to not do something and he/she , they did it anyway...

Dios a.ssured punishment if the action was performed....
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