Non Biased opinions only! Kobe - best offensive talent ever in the NBA?

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Props Slaps
 7 years ago '04        #201
abstractq 5 heat pts
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whew good thing youre there to catch all my typos. . .
 7 years ago '04        #202
abstractq 5 heat pts
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 beast mode said:
i have no comeback so ima post a pic


[pic - click to view]


true. . .
 07-25-2010, 09:45 PM         #203
-BigC-  OP
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 arthurmack27 said:
if u want me to do so then u must be a moron. height, weight, and atheleticism isnt the topic. but ill throw out some numbers just to see a lame rebuddle:

-6 seasons averaging 36 points or more per game, one of those seasons being 50.4ppg and the other 44.8ppg

-scored 100 points in a game, not to mention other games of 78, 73(X2), 72, 70, along with a total of 14 of the top 20 highest in a gave ever.

-scored 65 or more 15 times, 50 points or more 118 times, and scored atleast 40 points 63 times in a a single season.

-3 seasons shooting over 64% from the field.

-in 67-68 he led the league in total a.ssists and averaged 8.6ast per game. thats equivelant to john stockten leading the league in rebounds. to top if off, he said he WOULD lead the league which makes you wonder what he could have averaged yearly if he wanted to. also averaged 4.4ast for a career which is astonishing for a center.

-averaged 22.7rebounds per game. lets be conservative and a.ssume (since def and off rebounds werent tallied seperatedly then) and say 20% of those were offensive. if youve avoided looking at rebounds from a prospective then somethings wrong with you; offensive boards lead to second and 3rd chance points which in return wins games.

-most importantly, ah... ill let wiki say it for me: "Chamberlain's impact on the game is also reflected in the fact that he was directly responsible for several rule changes in the NBA, including widening the lane to try to keep him farther away from the hoop, institute offensive goaltending and revise rules governing inbounding the ball and shooting free throws.[1][10] Chamberlain was physically capable of converting foul shots via a slam dunk without a running start (beginning his movement at the top of the key).[11] When his dunks practically undermined the difficulty of a foul shot, the NBA banned his modus operandi"

finally, for the sake of THIS particular argument, chamberlain has the most 60 point games in a career with 62 times! in second...with ONLY 5 is....KOBE BRYANT!


care to try again sir? i dont think so.
Height/Weight/Athleticism is the point. There is a reason there are only 2 people to ever average 20 rebounds a game . The NBA wasn't really evolved yet and they took advantage. a.ssists just means he was probably being triple teamed frequently and made a pass
 7 years ago '10        #204
beast mode 25 heat pts25
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 abstractq said:
kobes not even the best in the nba now let alone anybodies goat
true!!!
 7 years ago '08        #205
primetime 60 heat pts60
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 abstractq said:
that attached to jordan huh. . .


sad. . .
nah you just a kobe nut hugging f**got.
 07-25-2010, 09:50 PM         #206
malikmoore9  OP
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if u want me to do so then u must be a moron. height, weight, and atheleticism isnt the topic. but ill throw out some numbers just to see a lame rebuddle:

-6 seasons averaging 36 points or more per game, one of those seasons being 50.4ppg and the other 44.8ppg

-scored 100 points in a game, not to mention other games of 78, 73(X2), 72, 70, along with a total of 14 of the top 20 highest in a gave ever.

-scored 65 or more 15 times, 50 points or more 118 times, and scored atleast 40 points 63 times in a a single season.

-3 seasons shooting over 64% from the field.

-in 67-68 he led the league in total a.ssists and averaged 8.6ast per game. thats equivelant to john stockten leading the league in rebounds. to top if off, he said he WOULD lead the league which makes you wonder what he could have averaged yearly if he wanted to. also averaged 4.4ast for a career which is astonishing for a center.

-averaged 22.7rebounds per game. lets be conservative and a.ssume (since def and off rebounds werent tallied seperatedly then) and say 20% of those were offensive. if youve avoided looking at rebounds from a prospective then somethings wrong with you; offensive boards lead to second and 3rd chance points which in return wins games.

-most importantly, ah... ill let wiki say it for me: "Chamberlain's impact on the game is also reflected in the fact that he was directly responsible for several rule changes in the NBA, including widening the lane to try to keep him farther away from the hoop, institute offensive goaltending and revise rules governing inbounding the ball and shooting free throws.[1][10] Chamberlain was physically capable of converting foul shots via a slam dunk without a running start (beginning his movement at the top of the key).[11] When his dunks practically undermined the difficulty of a foul shot, the NBA banned his modus operandi"

finally, for the sake of THIS particular argument, chamberlain has the most 60 point games in a career with 62 times! in second...with ONLY 5 is....KOBE BRYANT!


care to try again sir? i dont think so.
Great points hard to argue with but can we take into account how close this dude was to the basket and that he was a black man towering over frail white dudes with no athleticism. But I am so glad you brought up the 60 point games as in 5 for Kobe and Wilt's 70 point games seeing as though Kobe eclipsed that with an 80 point game the feat is not so much that he is a better scorer than a center that stood under the basket its that these games all came from ranged shots
 07-25-2010, 09:53 PM         #207
smm1989  OP
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NO
 7 years ago '08        #208
arthurmack27 8 heat pts
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 -BigC- said:
Height/Weight/Athleticism is the point. There is a reason there are only 2 people to ever average 20 rebounds a game . The NBA wasn't really evolved yet and they took advantage. a.ssists just means he was probably being triple teamed frequently and made a pass
.

im saying height, weight, and athleticism arent determining factors cus theres no such thing as a pound for pound champion in basketball. him, along with russell (who ur referring too) werent the only all around physically gifted players then or ever. they posted those numbers why?...simply cus they were great! and about u saying the nba wasnt evolved yet, im sorry but its practically impossible to compare eras in ANY sport. just as the game grows, the players grow so its insane to think chamberlin and russell wouldnt evolve with the game.
 07-25-2010, 10:20 PM         #209
-BigC-  OP
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 arthurmack27 said:
.

im saying height, weight, and athleticism arent determining factors cus theres no such thing as a pound for pound champion in basketball. him, along with russell (who ur referring too) werent the only all around physically gifted players then or ever. they posted those numbers why?...simply cus they were great! and about u saying the nba wasnt evolved yet, im sorry but its practically impossible to compare eras in ANY sport. just as the game grows, the players grow so its insane to think chamberlin and russell wouldnt evolve with the game.
The thing is his numbers are so insane that they can't be taken serious. It is not possible to average 50 points a game in a season in a league that is legitimate.
 7 years ago '09        #210
NLSP42 153 heat pts153
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f**k it.....if you want a "non biased opinion" haha......just go right to the numbers.......

Now for the rest of the numbers
FT % career = 83.8 vs. 83.5 (Kobe)
FG% career= 45.5 vs. 49.7 (Jordan)
3% career = 34 vs. 32.7 (Kobe)
Defensive Rebounds = 4.1 vs. 4.7 (Jordan)
Offensive Rebounds = 1.2 vs. 1.6 (Jordan)
Assists= 4.7 vs. 5.3 (Jordan)
Steals = 1.5 vs. 2.4 (Jordan)
Blocks = 0.6 vs. 0.8 (Jordan)
Turnovers = 2.92 vs. 2.73 (Jordan less)
Fouls = 2.66 vs. 2.60 (Jordan less)
PPG= 25.3 vs. 30.1 (Jordan)
MPG= 36.6 vs. 38.3 (Jordan)

OK now Playoffs...same categories
FT% = 84.2 vs. 82. 8 (Kobe)
FG% = 44.8 vs. 48.7 (Jordan)
3% = 33.7 vs. 33.2 (Kobe)
Defensive Rebounds = 4.1 vs. 4.7 (Jordan)
Offensive Rebounds = 1.0 vs. 1.7 (Jordan)
Assists = 4.8 vs. 5.7 (Jordan)
Steals = 1.4 vs. 2.1 (Jordan)
Blocks = 0.7 vs. 0.9 (Jordan)
Turnovers = 2.94 vs. 3.05 (Kobe less)
Fouls = 3.05 vs. 3.00 (Jordan less)
PPG= 25.5 vs. 33.4 (Jordan)

Same height....same position....same coach (not for all of Jordans years but the title ones).....same system.....same spot in the triangle

In the regular season averages Jordan wins in 10 out 12 categories
In the playoff averages Jordan wins in 9 out of 12 categories

Kobe according to THOSE numbers is better at Free Throws and 3 point....and in the play offs commits a little less turnovers

Alot of people defending Kobe do not like to compare those numbers....and it is difficult.....Jordan also played 2 years with the Wizards where his numbers were OBVIOUSLY down because of his age....and another season when he came back from baseball and wasnt even in basketball shape and his numbers were all over the place......thats 2.5 seasons where Jordans numbers dropped his averages......

Alot of people like to compare the quality of defenders....well great defenders guarded them both and also crappy defenders also did defend them both....so as far as the defenders guarding them one on one I would say they are even.....HOWEVER....there were better overall teams in Jordans years as well as better HELP DEFENDERS....so it might be a little more difficult for Jordan

Overall- Jordan
 7 years ago '10        #211
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 abstractq said:
smh

but dont get it twisted. . .Kobes the best, most complete offensive player the NBA ever had. Also one of the best defending guards the NBA has ever had


aka

the GOAT
Really???? Pretty sure his defense is severely overrated, and scoring wise, Lebron and Durant are on pace to score more points than him, so what are you saying??
 7 years ago '04        #212
abstractq 5 heat pts
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lol im not about to rehash the same arguments i been makin all through this thread


suffice to say, i bodied everything yall just posted earlier in this thread. . .


and put a couple boxden posters into a babbling fit while doing so
 7 years ago '08        #213
Lmac 
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Without question he is top 5 or 6. As far as perimeter players, he's top 2.
 07-25-2010, 11:32 PM         #214
-BigC-  OP
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 NLSP42 said:
f**k it.....if you want a "non biased opinion" haha......just go right to the numbers.......

Same height....same position....same coach (not for all of Jordans years but the title ones).....same system.....same spot in the triangle

Kobe according to THOSE numbers is better at Free Throws and 3 point....and in the play offs commits a little less turnovers

Alot of people defending Kobe do not like to compare those numbers....and it is difficult.....Jordan also played 2 years with the Wizards where his numbers were OBVIOUSLY down because of his age....and another season when he came back from baseball and wasnt even in basketball shape and his numbers were all over the place......thats 2.5 seasons where Jordans numbers dropped his averages......

Alot of people like to compare the quality of defenders....well great defenders guarded them both and also crappy defenders also did defend them both....so as far as the defenders guarding them one on one I would say they are even.....HOWEVER....there were better overall teams in Jordans years as well as better HELP DEFENDERS....so it might be a little more difficult for Jordan

Overall- Jordan
No numbers can be looked at without context and that is what your doing in your attempt to compare them. Read the damn thread
 7 years ago '07        #215
Cambury 39 heat pts39
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 -BigC- said:
No numbers can be looked at without context and that is what your doing in your attempt to compare them. Read the damn thread
n*ggas said same spot in the triangle not realizing that Jordan has never played with half the offensive talent that Kobe has in the system so MJ had the opportunity to do more he had the green light...whereas Kobe has had to pick and choose hit spots since he entered the league. Would Mike be able to defer to teammates and still put up the stats he has? i cant say im sure he would have
 7 years ago '04        #216
Young Fab 1 heat pts
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there's ALWAYS an excuse when it comes to Kobe
 7 years ago '09        #217
NLSP42 153 heat pts153
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Kobe stans hate comparing the numbers because Jordan wins in most of the categories when comparing numbers.....none of those numbers are out of context.....those numbers are career averages taken with over 9+ years in the league....thats what they did a MAJORITY of their playing time.....minus a year or two for both of them....the only way Kobe stans can win is by coming up with excuses and making up numbers
 07-26-2010, 09:45 AM         #218
A.O.™  OP
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Hell no...

Kobe needs like 38 shots to get 38 points...

Melo takes 38 shots he'll have 100.
Lebron takes 38 shots he'll have 100..

Best offensive Talent in the NBA is Lebron, followed by Carmelo..

And before these 2 beast came in the league, it was A.I., and T-Mac..

And before A.I. and T-Mac, it was Jordan...
 7 years ago '10        #219
Deelo Deniroz 20 heat pts20
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Name a player with a better supporting cast then Kobe for chips
 7 years ago '05        #220
TheT 21 heat pts21
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Truth
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