Can Light Be Described To A Blind Person?

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Props Slaps
 05-30-2010, 10:54 PM         #21
KrayLay  OP
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And yes blind people dream. When you sleep, your pons, geniculate nucleus of the thalamus, and your occipital lobe. This means your occipital is active while sleeping, which implies you seeing something in your sleep. If, however, a person because of a blow to the back of the head causing damage to the occipital lobe then you might not dream. but I'm not sure.
 8 years ago '08        #22
get_ate 1 heat pts
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Maybe I'm being a d*ck and a stickler, but the question "Can light be described to a blind person?" is simple to answer because the question is phrased in such a way it limits the need to expound.

Light can be described to a blind person, but the real question is: will they understand the description of light?

There's a difference between the two queries, and as presently constituted, the answer to the original posed question is a resounding "yes" because being blind is not akin to being deaf, thus enabling them to hear what you are describing to them.

...their understanding of that description is a completely different question, which wasn't directly asked anywhere, so I'm not answering further...
 06-01-2010, 12:39 AM         #23
YOUNGZERO  OP
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I say we hold our own experiment and give a blind person some SHROOMS and/or LSD.

Has this even been done???
 06-01-2010, 11:33 AM         #24
JerseyLegend  OP
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^^lol google it, you probably get some hits

 KrayLay said:
And yes blind people dream. When you sleep, your pons, geniculate nucleus of the thalamus, and your occipital lobe. This means your occipital is active while sleeping, which implies you seeing something in your sleep. If, however, a person because of a blow to the back of the head causing damage to the occipital lobe then you might not dream. but I'm not sure.
I hate you. I want to get into the whole brain area. I'm gonna try to get into that as soon as finish reading some of the books I bought
 06-01-2010, 01:21 PM         #25
KrayLay  OP
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 JerseyLegend said:
^^lol google it, you probably get some hits



I hate you. I want to get into the whole brain area. I'm gonna try to get into that as soon as finish reading some of the books I bought
. It's pretty much my major.
 06-01-2010, 01:28 PM         #26
YOUNGZERO  OP
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Found a remarkable 1963 study from the Archives of Opthalmology in which 24 blind participants took LSD to see if they could experience visual hallucinations.

It turns out, they can, although this seems largely to be the case in blind people who had several years of sight to begin with, but who later lost their vision.

Those blind from a very early age (younger than two years-old) did not report visual hallucinations, probably because they never had enough visual experience to shape a fully-functioning visual system when their brain was still developing.

It is evident that a normal retina is not needed for the occurrence of LSD-induced visual experiences. These visual experiences do not seem to differ from the hallucinations reported by normal subjects after LSD.

Such phenomena occurred only in blind subjects who reported prior visual activity. The drug increased the frequency of visual events such as spots, lights, dots, and flickers. However, the complex visual experiences reported by 3 subjects after LSD did not occur after placebo or in ordinary experience.

It is interesting to note that duration of blindness was not related to the occurrence of visual hallucinations; nor was intelligence, acuity of visual memory, or use of visual imagery in speech.

I mentioned in an earlier post on auditory hallucinations in deaf people that I'd heard rumours of studies on LSD in blind people but never found any reports. This study is not the only one it seems. The paper reviews several other studies in the same area.

Three other reports deal with the effects of hallucinogenic drugs on blind subjects. Alema reported that 50 micrograms of orally administered LSD induced elaborate visual hallucinations in a subject with bilateral enucleations of the eyeball. However, the effects of 50 micrograms of LSD are stated to have persisted for the incredibly long period of 5 days (they usually last 6 hours). This subject was noted to have spontaneous visual activity.

Zador administered mescaline orally in doses of 0.05 to 0.4gm to 10 blind subjects. Elaborate visual hallucinations usually followed. Most of the subjects had prior spontaneous visual activity, but it is difficult to evaluate this activity because they also had central nervous system diseases. The presence or absence of light perception was not specified for this group, and no control studies were carried out.

Forrer and Goldnerr gave LSD, 1 microgram per kilogram to 2 blind volunteers, both of whom had suffered destruction of the optic nerves. Neither reported visual hallucinations, no mention was made of prior spontaneous hallucinations, and no mention was made of prior spontaneous visual activity.

November 18, 2009
MindHacks
 06-17-2010, 06:46 AM         #27
hotstuff15951  OP
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its kinda like trying to describe a colour to \ blind person, equally as hard
 8 years ago '06        #28
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 YOUNGZERO said:
Found a remarkable 1963 study from the Archives of Opthalmology in which 24 blind participants took LSD to see if they could experience visual hallucinations.

It turns out, they can, although this seems largely to be the case in blind people who had several years of sight to begin with, but who later lost their vision.

Those blind from a very early age (younger than two years-old) did not report visual hallucinations, probably because they never had enough visual experience to shape a fully-functioning visual system when their brain was still developing.

It is evident that a normal retina is not needed for the occurrence of LSD-induced visual experiences. These visual experiences do not seem to differ from the hallucinations reported by normal subjects after LSD.

Such phenomena occurred only in blind subjects who reported prior visual activity. The drug increased the frequency of visual events such as spots, lights, dots, and flickers. However, the complex visual experiences reported by 3 subjects after LSD did not occur after placebo or in ordinary experience.

It is interesting to note that duration of blindness was not related to the occurrence of visual hallucinations; nor was intelligence, acuity of visual memory, or use of visual imagery in speech.

I mentioned in an earlier post on auditory hallucinations in deaf people that I'd heard rumours of studies on LSD in blind people but never found any reports. This study is not the only one it seems. The paper reviews several other studies in the same area.

Three other reports deal with the effects of hallucinogenic drugs on blind subjects. Alema reported that 50 micrograms of orally administered LSD induced elaborate visual hallucinations in a subject with bilateral enucleations of the eyeball. However, the effects of 50 micrograms of LSD are stated to have persisted for the incredibly long period of 5 days (they usually last 6 hours). This subject was noted to have spontaneous visual activity.

Zador administered mescaline orally in doses of 0.05 to 0.4gm to 10 blind subjects. Elaborate visual hallucinations usually followed. Most of the subjects had prior spontaneous visual activity, but it is difficult to evaluate this activity because they also had central nervous system diseases. The presence or absence of light perception was not specified for this group, and no control studies were carried out.

Forrer and Goldnerr gave LSD, 1 microgram per kilogram to 2 blind volunteers, both of whom had suffered destruction of the optic nerves. Neither reported visual hallucinations, no mention was made of prior spontaneous hallucinations, and no mention was made of prior spontaneous visual activity.

November 18, 2009
MindHacks
yea that seems pretty much what would be expected...anybody whoever took shrooms know the s**t u "see" when u close ur eyes and if they have seens omething before i'm sure their brain could create from that.Same with dreaming..i'd a.ssume people who have seen before could still dream but i think threadstarter and most others who wonder about this are wondering about those who were born blind
 7 years ago '07        #29
AwolRJ 3 heat pts
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I just tell him its the opposite of the dark s**t you see right now lol,
 06-30-2010, 06:04 AM         #30
SincereBC  OP
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can sound be described to the deaf ?
 7 years ago '05        #31
the407problem 3 heat pts
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I dont think you could describe it to someone who was born blind. (not in a way they would understand it)

In high school we had a guy who became blind at a young age come in to talk to us. I forgot how old he was when he was blinded but him and his brother were playing with dynamite.(his brother died)

anyhow some girl asked if he could see black. i said "no close your eyes and you see emptiness."
he said i was correct.


[video - click to view]

hippie talking about the universe & light


Last edited by the407problem; 07-18-2010 at 08:26 PM..
 07-20-2010, 10:13 AM         #32
Old Man Quillis  OP
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Listen...

[video - click to view]

 7 years ago '10        #33
Infamous2o1x 23 heat pts23
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i dont have a answer to this but i just wanted to say props to the thread starter. this is a pretty interesting question/subject.

im baffled, i dont think they can figure it out though personally. you said it perfectly when you explained their "senses"
 7 years ago '08        #34
HiphopRelated 
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 Reppindaburghh said:
No, it would not be possible. Plain and simple.

Side-note: (Somebody make a thread with a poll. I'm to lazy at the moment.)

Would you rather be blind or deaf?
deaf will/should win in a landslide
 7 years ago '08        #35
HiphopRelated 
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 hotstuff15951 said:
its kinda like trying to describe a colour to \ blind person, equally as hard
very good

"colour" is just reflected light. If you can descibe colour, you could describe light
 09-01-2010, 05:36 AM         #36
Icemouth  OP
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There's different types of blind, a person can be legally blind but still see shapes etc. Or just see light. Color on the other hand is something that doesn't exist to them and even people not born blind will eventually lose that
 7 years ago '04        #37
vagangster 1 heat pts
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 Kuchiki_Byakuya said:
I don't know if something like that can be done, but it would be a pretty good test of one's mastery over the English (or any) language though.

The corollary here is that we can conjecture it would be impossible for someone allegedly proficient in ESP to describe it to the layperson. We can further conjecture that religious experiences probably can't be expressed to those that don't have it firsthand either.

But we're getting ahead of ourselves here of course.

It is safe to say that you do not master the english language. Your diction is poor, grammar is average at best, and you use corollary completely out of context. Stop trying to look intelligent on Boxden, your only making yourself look stupid. Then again, it may not be your fault as you have probably attended some cheap public university that has some liberal english professor cramming socialist ideas in to your brain.



On a side note, I did watch this docmentary about a man who has been blind since birth. Without ever being able to see and develop the visual charachteristic of depth perception, the man was led around a building by a helper to feel the contour of the structure (the structures shape was an octagon). He then sat down directly in front of the building and drew it like any artist would draw depth perception. Granted he did not draw the building in full detail, it was still nothing short of amazing for some one who had never been able to experience sight with depth perception and successfully portray it on a piece of paper blind!
 7 years ago '09        #38
Lil Jay 30 heat pts30
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 Gwange said:
Yeah, absolutely. If a blind person's brain has a working visual cortex, then it can be stimulated (magnetic stimulation is the first method that comes to mind). This will produce phosphenes which is essentially the perception of light. So yes, they will "see"/experience light.
this.

they do visualize things in their brains, it just cant feed off of expiriences.. therefore its hard to imagine what that would be... they might imagine forms and structures they can touch i a.ssume...
 7 years ago '04        #39
ruff 6 heat pts
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 Sewer said:
Good part at 4:27.
X-Men.

That guy's paintings are pretty good.
 7 years ago '04        #40
bibbyboi 25 heat pts25
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it is impossible to describe light/color to a person WITH SIGHT besides pointing at it so logically its impossible to describe to someone without sight...
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