Anyone who thinks that kobe isnt a better clutch preformer than jordan

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Props Slaps
 8 years ago '07        #121
kidbrosweets 16 heat pts16
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 Firestarr said:
What we talking bout fiction? or We talking bout Facts?
Son'd !
 8 years ago '05        #122
klew 227 heat pts227
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 beantown85 said:
f**k outta here with this bulls**t u ppl make me sick. Jordan never had david stern needing to cheat for him to win a title they probably would've never even made it past the jailblazers that year if the refs hadn't been cheating for them. Kobe stans are f**king delusional.

Probably got those f**got a.ss photos from his photoshoot up on their wall in their rooms
Void coming from a Boston fan. If you didn't get the two players you got Boston would still be chanting MVP for Kobe. Just enjoy your 1 title and fall back.
 8 years ago '05        #123
klew 227 heat pts227
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 Firestarr said:
What we talking bout fiction? or We talking bout Facts?
:agreement6:
 05-09-2010, 11:25 AM         #124
A.O.™  OP
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 Lex Lossis said:
Love how nobody provides a proper rebuttal. Typical of BX to respond with played out smilies and GIFs. Absolute zero skill when it comes to proper debate mechanics. Too many fallacies come out yalls mouths.



Yall are garbage and as I've said before, you all would lose miserably in an official debate at an accredited university.


Because his claim has no legs to stand on. Kobe has already played more games than Jordan and will play MANY MORE GAMES than Jordan; so yes he is going to hit alot of game winners. Does that mean he's more clutch than Jordan?

What exactly is more CLUTCH? Are we talking about who scored more of his teams points in the final 2 minutes of the game? Or just game winners? Cause even Kobe playing X amount more years than Mike, MJ has more points in the final 2 minutes, and I believe more game winners too if not, Kobe only has more cause he played more games.
 05-09-2010, 11:34 AM         #125
A.O.™  OP
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 xyz11scorp21xyz said:
this is true. i've been supporting kobe my whole life, but i've been a little less arrogant doing it than most

and it's true because kobe fans are open to the debate, and are willing to provide valid points (most of them at least)

while mj fans are so goddamn stuck that he's the g.o.a.t., that they won't even have the respect to listen to what somebody else has to say

lebron fans are becoming the same way, except stats to them are the be all end all argument
What valid points can you make?

How you going to think a player who is still active and resume looks like this.. 4 NBA titles, 1 NBA Finals MVP, 1 League MVP, 1 Scoring title, and a couple all-star mvps... to a player who is now retired resume looks like 6 NBA titles, 6 Finals MVP, 3-peat, retired for 2 years, 3-peat, 10 scoring titles, 5 league mvps, defensive player of the year, countless all-nba first team offensive and defensive, and multiple all-star mvps... What can you compare?

What valid argument can you have? A player who was hands down the best player respectively every year he played in the NBA to a player who is overrated by the media? Jordan who was top 3 even when he was 33+ years of age, to a player who is barely top 10 in his early 30s.. A player who lost 2 finals to a player who lost none.

I mean there really is no comparison.. A player who was the most dominant player in his era, to a player who played with the most dominant player of HIS era. A player who in his prime of his career missed the playoffs and begged to get traded, to a player who retired in the prime of his career to come back and 3-peat..

Its laughable that you Kobe fans think theres a case to be made, against JORDAN..? Career wise against Lebron maybe.. But Skill wise, career wise, against JORDAN? HELL NO!
 8 years ago '09        #126
Ricky Towel 128 heat pts128
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Jordan = Goat
 8 years ago '10        #127
HeyCobra 7 heat pts
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The Goat of clutch.


[video - click to view]

 8 years ago '07        #128
smj_724 1 heat pts
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 Cambury said:
i honestly believe that Kobe fans are the least fanatical ones out there...in my experience they deal with reality a lot better than others
 8 years ago '08        #129
Main Event 55 heat pts55
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Why do n*ggas do this, Memphis boi shut this down in another thread

Jordan


Naismith Memorial Hall of Fame Class of 2009
6-time NBA champion: 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998 (all with Chicago Bulls)
6 NBA Finals appearances: 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998
5-time NBA Most Valuable Player: 1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998[1][2]
10-time scoring champion: 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998[3]
14-time NBA All-Star: 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2002, 2003[4]
3-time NBA All-Star Game MVP: 1988, 1996, 1998[5]
6-time NBA Finals Most Valuable Player: 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998[6]
1-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 1987-88[7]
11-time All-NBA selection:
First team: 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998[8][9]
Second team: 1985[8][9]
9-time All-Defensive selection:
First team: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998[10][11]
NBA All-Rookie selection:
First team: 1985[12][13]
NBA Rookie of the Year: 1985[14]
2-time NBA Slam Dunk Contest champions: 1987, 1988[15]
Selected in 1996 as one of the "50 Greatest Players in NBA History"
Selected in 1996 as member of two of the "Top 10 Teams in NBA History"
1991-92 Chicago Bulls (67–15; .817)
1995-96 Chicago Bulls (72–10; .878)
[edit] Achievements

Plaque chronicling the career achievements of Jordan at the United Center.Scored in double-digits in all but one of 1,109 games as a Chicago Bull (8 points on March 25, 1986 vs. the Cleveland Cavaliers)
Scored 20 or more points in 1,099 games (926 regular season, 173 postseason)
Scored 30 or more points in 671 games (562 regular season, 109 postseason)
Scored 40 or more points in 211 games (173 regular season, 38 postseason)
Scored 50 or more points in 39 games (31 regular season, 8 postseason)
Scored 60 or more points in 5 games (4 regular season, 1 postseason)
Recorded 31 triple-doubles (28 regular season, 2 postseason, 1 All-Star Game)
Recorded 240 double-doubles (201 regular season, 39 postseason)
11-time regular season leader, total points (1984-85, 1986-93, 1995-98)
10-time regular season leader, scoring average (1986-93, 1995-98)
3-time regular season leader, steals (1987-88, 1989-90, 1992-93)
[edit] NBA Finals
Jordan played in six NBA Finals for a total of 35 games.

6-time NBA champion (1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1995-96, 1996-97, 1997-98)
scored 40 or more points in six games, and 50 or more in one game
averaged 33.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, and 6.0 apg
6-time Finals MVP (1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1995-96, 1996-97, 1997-98)
Holds NBA Finals records for:

Finals MVP honors (6)
named MVP in each Finals appearance
scoring average, single-series (41.0 ppg)
set in the 1993 NBA Finals vs. the Phoenix Suns
consecutive games, 20 or more points (35, June 2, 1991-June 14, 1998)
only player to score 20 or more points in all games, career (min. 15 games)
Jordan scored at least 20 in all 35 of his Finals performances
consecutive games, 40 or more points (4, June 11-18, 1993)
points, one half (35)
set in 1st half vs. the Portland Trail Blazers, June 3, 1992
field goals made, one half (14)
did so twice; vs. Portland, June 3, 1992 and vs. Phoenix, June 16, 1993
shared with Isiah Thomas
consecutive field goals made (13)
set vs. the Los Angeles Lakers on June 5, 1991
free throws made, quarter (9)
shared with Frank Ramsey
three point field goals made, one half (6)
set vs. the Portland Trail Blazers, June 3, 1992
shared with Kenny Smith
scoring 30 or more points in all games of series
set in the 1993 NBA Finals vs. the Phoenix Suns
shared with Elgin Baylor, Rick Barry, Hakeem Olajuwon and Shaquille O'Neal
points, 6-game series (246)
set in the 1993 NBA Finals vs. the Phoenix Suns
field goals made, 6-game series (101)
set in the 1993 NBA Finals vs. the Phoenix Suns
steals, 5-game series (14)
set in the 1991 NBA Finals vs. the Los Angeles Lakers
highest a.ssists average not by a point guard, single-series (11.4 apg)
set in the 1991 NBA Finals vs. the Los Angeles Lakers
Rank among NBA Finals leaders in other stats:

2nd, points, game (55 vs. Phoenix Suns, June 16, 1993)
2nd, points, one half (33 in 1st half vs. the Phoenix Suns, June 16, 1993)
shared with Elgin Baylor
2nd, three point field goals made, career (42)
2nd, field goals made, 5-game series (63)
3rd, points, career (1,176)
3rd, three point field goals attempted, career (114)
4th, steals, career (62)
5th, field goals made, career (438)
6th, total a.ssists, career (209)
6th, free throws made, career (258)
7th, field goals attempted, career (901)
8th, free throws attempted, career (320)
[edit] Playoffs
Holds NBA Playoff Records for:

points per game average, career (33.45)
points, career (5,987)
points, single postseason (759, 1992)
also ranks 5th (680, 1998) and 6th (666, 1993)
50 point games (8)
40 point games (38)
30 point games (109)
20 point games (174)
consecutive games, 15 or more points (179)
scored 15 points or more in every career playoff game
consecutive games, 20 or more points (60)
June 2, 1989 - May 11, 1993
points in a game (63)
set vs. the Boston Celtics, April 20, 1986
averaged 43.7 ppg, 5.7 apg, and 6.3 rpg for the three games series against the Boston Celtics
points in a 3-game series (135)
set in the 1992 First Round vs. the Miami Heat
points in a 5-game series (226)
set in the 1988 First Round vs. the Cleveland Cavaliers
field goals attempted, career (4,497)
field goals made per game, career (12.2)
field goals made in a game (24)
set vs. Cleveland Cavaliers on May 1, 1988
shared with Wilt Chamberlain and John Havlicek
field goals attempted, half (25)
set vs. Cleveland Cavaliers on May 1, 1988
shared with Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor
field goals made in a 3-game series (53)
set in the 1992 First Round vs. the Miami Heat
field goals made in a 5-game series (86)
set in the 1988 First Round vs. the Cleveland Cavaliers
field goals made in a 6-game series (101)
set in 1993 NBA Finals vs. the Phoenix Suns
consecutive field goals made (13)
set vs. the Los Angeles Lakers on June 5, 1991
free throws made, career (1,463)
free throws made, quarter (13)
blocks by a guard, career (158)
free throws made per game, rookie (12.0)
free throws attempted per game, rookie (14.5)
Rank among NBA Playoff leaders in other stats:

2nd, free throws attempted (1,766)
2nd, field goals made, career (2,188)
2nd, steals, career (376)
Scottie Pippen is the all-time leader with 395
2nd, field goals made, single postseason (290, 1992)
also holds the 6th (251, 1993), 7th (243, 1998), and 10th (227, 1997) highest
2nd, field goals attempted, single postseason (581, 1992)
also holds the 4th (528, 1993), 5th (526, 1998), and 8th (498, 1997) highest
2nd, points, 3-game series (131)
set in the 1986 First Round against the Boston Celtics
2nd, points, 4-game series (147)
set in the 1990 First Round against the Milwaukee Bucks
2nd, points, 5-game series (215)
set in the 1990 Conference Semifinals against the Philadelphia 76ers
2nd, points, 6-game series (246)
set in the 1993 NBA Finals against the Phoenix Suns
2nd, rebounds by a guard, career (1,152)
Magic Johnson is the all-time leader with 1,465
3rd, free throws made, single postseason (183, 1989)
also holds the 4th highest with 181 in 1998
4th, points per game average, rookie (29.2)
Following Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (35.2), Wilt Chamberlain (33.2), and George Mikan (30.3)
4th, steals per game average, rookie (2.8)
shared with Andre Iguodala
5th, a.ssists per game average, rookie (8.5)
5th, a.ssists, career (1,022)
6th, free throw attempts, single postseason (229, 1989)
also holds the 8th highest with 223 in 1998
7th, three point field goals attempted, career (446)
7th, minutes played, career (7,474)
9th, three point field goals made, career (148)
Other:

only player to record back-to-back 50 point games
Set in Games 1 and 2 of 1988 First Round against the Cleveland Cavaliers (April 28 May 1, 1988)
recorded two playoff career triple-doubles
both against the New York Knicks (May 9, 1989 and June 2, 1993)
[edit] All-Star Game
selected 14 times (1985-93, 1996-98, 2002-03)
started in 13 of the 14 years, including rookie season, and missed one due to injury (1986)
3-time All-Star MVP (1988, 1996, 1998)
Holds NBA All-Star Game records for:

points, career (262)
field goals made, career (110)
field goals made, game (17)
shared with Wilt Chamberlain and Kevin Garnett
field goals attempted, career (233)
field goals attempted, game (27)
shared with Rick Barry
steals, career (37)
blocked shots, half (4)





$64 | r 465200 Rank among NBA All-Star Game leaders in other stats:

2nd, selections (14)
behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (16)
2nd, points, game (40)
finished with 40 points on 73.9% shooting, 8 rebounds, 3 a.ssists (1988, in Chicago)
3rd, scoring average (20.2)
3rd, minutes, career (382)
Other:

recorded the only All-Star Game triple-double (14 points, 11 rebounds, and 11 a.ssists in 1997, in Cleveland)
[edit] Regular season
Holds NBA regular season records for:


Last edited by Main Event; 05-09-2010 at 12:50 PM..
 8 years ago '08        #130
Main Event 55 heat pts55
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All-Defensive First Team honors (9)
shared with Gary Payton
Player Efficiency Rating, career (27.91)
points per game average, career (30.12)
consecutive games scoring in double-digits (866)
seasons leading the league in points per game average (10)
consecutive seasons leading the league in points per game average (7, 1986-87 through 1992-93)
shared with Wilt Chamberlain
Appears on the All-time top 100 list of most points per game in a season a record 9 times.
seasons leading the league in total points (11)
Appears on the All-time top 100 list of most points in a season a record 11 times.
seasons leading the league in field goals made (10)
consecutive seasons leading the league in field goals made (7)
shared with Wilt Chamberlain
seasons leading the league in field goals attempted (9)
seasons leading the league in steals per game (3)
highest Game Score on record
64.6 at the Cleveland Cavaliers on March 28, 1990
free throws made, one half
20, against the Miami Heat on December 30, 1992
free throws attempted, one half
23, against the Miami Heat on December 30, 1992
free throws made, one quarter (shared)
14, against the Utah Jazz on November 15, 1989, and against the Miami Heat on December 30, 1992
free throws attempted, one quarter (shared)
16, against the Miami Heat on December 30, 1992
steals, one half (8)
shared with 11 players
oldest player to score 50 points in one game (51 points, 7 rebounds, aged 38 years, 315 days)
against the New Orleans Hornets, December 29, 2001
oldest player and only player at age 40 or older to score 40 points in one game (43 points, 10 rebounds)
against the New Jersey Nets, February 21, 2003
scored 40 or more points 3 times, in his final year
scored 30 or more points 9 times, in his final year
scored 20 or more points 42 times, in his final year
blocked shots by a guard, season (131, 1987-88)
blocked shots by a guard, career (893)
Rank among NBA Regular season leaders in other stats:

2nd, MVP honors (5)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was voted MVP six times
2nd, seasons with 2,000 or more points (11)
Karl Malone holds the record with 12
2nd, seasons leading the league in steals (3; 1987-88, 1989-90, 1992-93)
2nd, steals, career (2,514)
2nd, consecutive points scored in a game
23 against the Atlanta Hawks on April 16, 1987; finished with 61 points
Manu Ginobili scored 24 straight on February 22, 2007
2nd, consecutive triple-doubles (7)[16]
shared with Oscar Robertson
recorded a triple-double in ten games over an eleven game stretch, March 24 April 14, 1989
fell just short in the one game, (which would have allowed for eleven consecutive triple-doubles) with a double-double effort of 40 points, 11 a.ssists and 7 rebounds.
Wilt Chamberlain had 9 straight
3rd, 60 point games (4)
2nd, 50 point games (31)
2nd, 40 point games (173)
2nd, 30 point games (561)
3rd, consecutive games scoring 20 or more points (72, December 29, 1987-December 6, 1988)
two longest streaks set by Wilt Chamberlain
Jordan also registered a streak of 69 consecutive games scoring 20 or more points during the 1990-91 season.
3rd, consecutive games scoring 40 or more points (9, November 28-December 12, 1986)
two longest streaks set by Wilt Chamberlain
3rd, total points, career (32,292)
3rd, points in a season (3,041, 1986-87)
first two held by Wilt Chamberlain
Jordan appears on this All-Time NBA Top 100 list a record 11 times
3rd, field goals attempted, career (24,537)
3rd, free throws made in a season (833, 1986-87)
Behind Jerry West (840, '66) and Wilt Chamberlain (835, '62)
Jordan is also the 10th All-Time leader for most free throws in a season (723, '88)
appears on this All-Time top 100 list a total of 6 times
4th, consecutive games (shared) scoring 40 or more points (9, 1986-87)
three longest streaks set by Wilt Chamberlain
Jordan in fact scored 40 or more points in 11 of 12 games during this period.
4th, steals per game, career (2.35)
4th, field goals made, career (12,192)
4th, free throws made, career (7,327)
6th, field goals made, season (1,098, in 1986-87)
First 4 are held by Wilt Chamberlain, 5th by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Jordan appears on this top 100 list a total an NBA record of 11 times
Jordan is also 9th in field goals made in a season (1,069, in 1987-88)
6th, field goals attempted, season (2,279, in 1987)
first 5 records are held by Wilt Chamberlain
Jordan appears on this NBA's record top 100 list a total of 10 times
6th, points per game average, season (37.1)
4 are held by Wilt Chamberlain, 1 by Elgin Baylor.
Jordan appears on this all-time NBA Top 100 list a record 10 times
6th, points per game average by a rookie, (28.2, 1984-85)
ranked 3rd that season, behind the New York Knicks Bernard King, and the Boston Celtics Larry Bird
8th, free throws attempted, career (8,772)
8th, steals per game average, season (3.16, 1987-88)
appears on the All-Time top 100 list a total of 6 times
Other:

only player in NBA history to lead league in scoring and be Defensive Player of the Year in same season
only player in NBA history to be Most Valuable Player, Defensive Player of the Year, and lead league in scoring in same season
first player in NBA history to be Most Valuable Player and Defensive Player of the Year in same season
Hakeem Olajuwon is the only other player to do so.
one of 10+ players in NBA history to lead team in four statistics in a season
In his rookie season, Jordan led his team in scoring (28.2 ppg), rebounding (6.5 rpg), a.ssists (5.9 apg) and steals (2.4 spg), hence making him also the only rookie to perform this feat. He was second on the team in blocks.
Jordan again led the Bulls in four of the five statistics in the 1987-88 season; scoring (35.0 ppg), a.ssists (5.9 apg), steals (3.2 spg) and blocked shots (1.6 bpg).
only player besides Wilt Chamberlain to score 3,000 points in a season (3,041 in 1986-87)
first player in NBA history to collect both a scoring title and win a Defensive Player of the Year award in his career
David Robinson is the only other player to do so.
first player in NBA history to record 200 steals and 100 blocked shots in a season (236 steals, 125 blocks in 1986-87)
Hakeem Olajuwon (1988-89) and Scottie Pippen (1989-90) are the only other players to do so.
only player in NBA history to consecutively record 200 steals and 100 blocked shots in a season (259 steals, 131 blocks in 1987-88)
1986 through 1988
only player in NBA history with multiple seasons of 200 steals and 100 blocked shots
first player in NBA history to lead league both in scoring average and steals in same season
did so for three seasons (1987-88, 1989-90, 1992-93)
Allen Iverson is the only other player to do so, and has performed the feat twice.
fourth player in NBA history to lead league in scoring average and win an NBA championship in same season
did so for six seasons (1990-1993, 1996-1998)
led the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls to an All-Time NBA Best Regular season record, with 72 wins, 10 losses
averaged a league high 30.4 ppg
led the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls to an All-Time NBA Best combined Regular and Post Season record with, 87 wins, 13 losses
won the 1996 and 1998 Regular Season MVP, All-Star MVP, and NBA Finals MVP
Willis Reed (1970) and Shaquille O'Neal (2000) are the only players to do so, Jordan is the only player to perform the feat twice
one of three players to be an Olympic basketball gold medalist both as an amateur and professional
one of three players in NBA history to average 20+ points, 5+ a.ssists, and 5+ rebounds as a rookie
joined by Oscar Robertson and LeBron James
The only player in NBA history that has won Rookie Of The Year (1985), Regular Season MVP (5 times), All-Star MVP (3 times), Finals MVP (6 times), and Most Defensive Player of The Year Awards.
 8 years ago '06        #131
philly337 20 heat pts20
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last 5-6 yeasr kobe has shot like 25% on game winning shots..he ain't even the best in the nba just gets the most play on espn

carmelo and and pierce both have way better game winning numbers

Last 6 years (not including this year) on game winning possessions

carmelo anthony - 13 for 27 (48%)
ray allen - 15 for 39 (39%)
allen iverson 13 for 33 (39%)
ben gordon 12 for 34 (35%)
paul pierce 11 for 32 (34%)
lebron james 17 for 50 (34%)
dirk nowitzski 12 for 37 (32%)
vince carter 16 for 51 (31%)
dwayne wade 11 for 40 (28%)
joe johnson 12 for 45 (27%)
jamal crawford 11 for 45 (26%)
kobe bryant 14 for 56 (25%)

go ahead and close this thread lol
 8 years ago '04        #132
cold_young_thug 40 heat pts40
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 rynell said:
MJ was, is, and will always be the GOAT no matter what Kobe does.
well clearly then ur d*ckriding. u act like jordan has reached some 'unnatainable' feats in the nba. compare stats kobe by the time, he puts in as many years as jordan will have outdone him in almost every category. that makes him better. if u dont use facts, and only your beliefs to make decisions, you'll be wrong most of the time,. and christians. lol
 8 years ago '07        #133
th3ptassassin15 
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the evidence is this........Michael Jordan is 6/6 in nba finals and 6 nba finals mvps. Kobe has one loss in an nba finals. and got blown out!!!!!mj would never get blown away by 30 points to a team in the finals.
 05-09-2010, 01:31 PM         #134
ceo  OP
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 dj mannie fresh said:
its stupid f**ks like you that make me look even better if thats possible. everything i talked about in mjs clutchness you just posted and back me up
are u on prozac???
 05-09-2010, 01:32 PM         #135
ceo  OP
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 th3ptassassin15 said:
the evidence is this........Michael Jordan is 6/6 in nba finals and 6 nba finals mvps. Kobe has one loss in an nba finals. and got blown out!!!!!mj would never get blown away by 30 points to a team in the finals.
Kobe lost to detroit and boston
 05-09-2010, 01:38 PM         #136
A.O.™  OP
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 xyz11scorp21xyz said:

as you can see kobe is on pace to shatter all of mj's numbers, except for mvp's and scoring titles. when you look back at both careers, are those 2 things going to be enough to say mj > kobe?
Yes they will be enough going on how Jordan only played 13 years and Kobe is on pace to play 18-19 years?

So ofcourse when you look at numbers from a player who played 13 years and compare them to somebody who played 19-20 years. Ofcourse the person who played longer #'s should crush the other..

But their impact wont be the same.. and thats what you Kobe stans dont understand is Jordans Impact > Kobe's Impact.
 8 years ago '04        #137
l0udm0uf 1 heat pts
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i approve this thread


continue
 05-09-2010, 02:32 PM         #138
A.O.™  OP
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 xyz11scorp21xyz said:

as you can see kobe is on pace to shatter all of mj's numbers, except for mvp's and scoring titles. when you look back at both careers, are those 2 things going to be enough to say mj > kobe?
And at the end of the Day Lebron #'s are going to crush Kobe's #'s.. And they will probably play the same amount of years.. What are you going to say then?
 8 years ago '07        #139
Cambury 39 heat pts39
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 A.O.™ said:
And at the end of the Day Lebron #'s are going to crush Kobe's #'s.. And they will probably play the same amount of years.. What are you going to say then?
what does Lebron have to do with this?
 05-09-2010, 02:46 PM         #140
Hurricane Ra  OP
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$n/a | Props total:  
6 titles>4 titles
6 finals mvp's>1
6-0 finals record>4-2 finals record

and jordan never ever got worked like bryant did in the finals by the celtics and pistons



clutch city
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