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 8 years ago '04        #101
aldo 
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 hood135 said:
Flip what around dude? My point was that Kobe was just as important to those teams as Shaq and then I proceeded to tell why. You caught feelings because you felt like I was discrediting Shaq. I wasn't. Get over it. You're pathetic.

The Lakers were gutted and f**king started Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Sasha...etc. over the next few years. Kobe didn't do anything in those years? You can't be serious. Nobody wins a championship with a team full of bums. What did you want him to do?

And you're bringing up Miami and Boston like they had a "DYnasty" in place before the trades happened. The Lakers dismantled a championship team and made another one. Miami? Boston? f**k outta here.

And no s**t, without Shaq the Lakers lose. Same can be said about Kobe. Whats your point? And to answer your question, I wouldn't want to play without either one. What kind of stupid a.ss question is that? You lose either way.

Thanks for creating an argument out of thin air by the way. Argue that Shaq and Duncan s**t with somebody else.
.....I give up. Your a Burger King Have It Your Way a.ss n*gga. One moment saying you saying Kobe the better basketball player, then you saying you can't win with a team full of bums, then you naming those players like they didn't have proven players Lamar Odom, Caron Butler & Brian Grant on the same team that didn't make the playoffs, then you saying Miami and Boston wasn't a dynasty so it don't count that they gutted the team and rebuilt then won a title, then you saying without Shaq no s**t the Lakers would lose, then you saying I lose either way, how? Then you saying you didn't discredit Shaq when you saying he was a match-up problem more for his size than skill. n*gga you catching feelings and discredited Shaq cause you a Kobe warrior, the whole point I'm saying is SHAQ WAS A BIGGER & MORE IMPORTANT PIECE AND A BETTER PLAYER THAN KOBE WAS FROM 2000-2002. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
 8 years ago '04        #102
dre03 
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 akademiks said:
Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Moses Malone
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Oscar
Pistol Pete
Kobe
West
Bird
Robinson
Havlicek
Petit
Barkley
Isiah
Erving

They can all be arguably put above Stockton, Malone & Barkley. And even Moses Malone is considered better than all of them (like I said before) and he may not have even been a better player than Karl.

And can't forget about Baylor who was better than all 3 of the guys you listed too.
i actually pretty much agree with your list except for Pistol Pete and Barkley not being there... Oh yeah and a guy named Michael missing... I dont like Stockton and Malone i just respect them for their greatness

Garnett and Russell are not better than Barkley... Garnett better talent yes but not production not even close... And u listed Hakeem twice...

Pete Maravich is better than Julius Erving and Isiah Thomas... Barkley and Pistol Pete should be in your top 15... I would put Moses and Baylor up there
 8 years ago '04        #103
dre03 
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 NnAiTnAjSa317 said:
The thing with the title talk is... if this guy is so damn good then why is it so hard for him to get one. If he is truly THAT damn good, Jordan good, he will have a few before he retires. I can't see a guy being compared to Jordan never getting one... or two for that matter. Lebron is a victim of his own hype.
Its only been 7 years... i dont think he will amass MJ as the greatest but i dont understand your why is it taking him so long to get one statement like he has been in the league 10+ years...

Jordan didnt win until his 7th year either calm down
 8 years ago '09        #104
kickzrme 1 heat pts
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 cjstewar8 said:
no more comparisons to jordan for lebron until he gets at least one championship. if he doesn't win it this year, he never will
I don't kno bout never will butt he do need a ring or 2 before you can be compared to kobe yet alone jordan (and I'm a hornets/mavs fan so that kobe stan sh*t can stop now)
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 03-31-2010, 12:57 PM         #105
CubanHitman  OP
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enough with articles lets get the playoffs crackin already....they need to write articles on why the nba scheldule is soo long and boring...its like the lakers play the warrior every other week lol
 8 years ago '04        #106
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 dre03 said:
i actually pretty much agree with your list except for Pistol Pete and Barkley not being there... Oh yeah and a guy named Michael missing... I dont like Stockton and Malone i just respect them for their greatness

Garnett and Russell are not better than Barkley... Garnett better talent yes but not production not even close... And u listed Hakeem twice...

Pete Maravich is better than Julius Erving and Isiah Thomas... Barkley and Pistol Pete should be in your top 15... I would put Moses and Baylor up there
I don't think Pete Maravich was really that great in the NBA.. Didn't accomplish much, had a handful of good seasons, and was known as one of the worst defensive players ever. He was flashy but was turnover prone.. I don't see any reason to put him in the top 15 at all if we're strictly talking NBA and not college.

And as far as Barkley vs. Garnett it's debateable.

Russell I never saw play but his career speaks for itself.

Malone may be a top 15 player (IMO he is), but in a lot of circles he isn't, and same with Barkley, because of the rings argument.

My entire point was that a player won't be considered along the status of some of these players without rings, even though they have a great argument to be in that discussion.
 8 years ago '04        #107
dre03 
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 hood135 said:
Flip what around dude? My point was that Kobe was just as important to those teams as Shaq and then I proceeded to tell why. You caught feelings because you felt like I was discrediting Shaq. I wasn't. Get over it. You're pathetic.

The Lakers were gutted and f**king started Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Sasha...etc. over the next few years. Kobe didn't do anything in those years? You can't be serious. Nobody wins a championship with a team full of bums. What did you want him to do?

And you're bringing up Miami and Boston like they had a "DYnasty" in place before the trades happened. The Lakers dismantled a championship team and made another one. Miami? Boston? f**k outta here.

And no s**t, without Shaq the Lakers lose. Same can be said about Kobe. Whats your point? And to answer your question, I wouldn't want to play without either one. What kind of stupid a.ss question is that? You lose either way.

Thanks for creating an argument out of thin air by the way. Argue that Shaq and Duncan s**t with somebody else.
I agree Kobe was just as important as Shaq on the Lakers but that doesnt make him the leader or vocal point of the team... I believe he was as important as Shaq wouldnt have won without Kobe but that doesnt make Kobe the leader or the weight of that team...

For example, lets say i was trying to lift a 400lb box... By myself i can only lift 300lbs... In order to reach my goal i need help lifting the box... So if i go and get help to help me lift the remaining 100lbs that person becomes as important to my goal as i am cuz without him i couldnt lift the box... But the fact still remains that i carried a heavier load and i was the one who made the decision to get help... Anytime there is a team or group moving towards a common goal collectively there has to be a leader of that group...

With the Lakers it was Shaq that carried the load as the offense was designed to go through him... The Lakers attacked you from the inside out... Not the outside in... They pounded the ball inside for 3 quarters and let Kobe dominate the 4th quarters cuz Shaq couldnt shoot free throws... Teams gameplanned for Shaq first and Kobe second...
 8 years ago '04        #108
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 CubanHitman said:
enough with articles lets get the playoffs crackin already....they need to write articles on why the nba scheldule is soo long and boring...its like the lakers play the warrior every other week lol
Few more weeks man..

NBA season is too damn long.
 8 years ago '04        #109
dre03 
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 akademiks said:
I don't think Pete Maravich was really that great in the NBA.. Didn't accomplish much, had a handful of good seasons, and was known as one of the worst defensive players ever. He was flashy but was turnover prone.. I don't see any reason to put him in the top 15 at all if we're strictly talking NBA and not college.

And as far as Barkley vs. Garnett it's debateable.

Russell I never saw play but his career speaks for itself.

Malone may be a top 15 player (IMO he is), but in a lot of circles he isn't, and same with Barkley, because of the rings argument.

My entire point was that a player won't be considered along the status of some of these players without rings, even though they have a great argument to be in that discussion.
You cant penalize Pete Maravich for playing with two franchises who to this day still have never won a championship... Thats why the ring argument shouldnt apply just automatically... How do you rate a player who never played with a winning coach, another all-star or hall of fame player??? Its not his fault the teams who acquired him didnt do anything to provide help for him...

There is nobody on your list or anybody's list who played with less talent then Pistol Pete... He was put in a position to fail every year... Imagine if Kobe had his 05-06 team minus Lamar Odom every year of his career is he still considered as great as he is? Think about it

The only thing Garnett got over Barkley is a ring he won late in his career... He didnt win a ring as the main player on a team... Garnett didnt win a ring til he began to slow down... Thats like David Robinson's ring... Garnett didnt have to face a MJ led Bulls team... I mean think about it if Jordan doesnt retire there is a great possibility that Hakeem wouldnt have any rings...
 03-31-2010, 02:24 PM         #110
antdog  OP
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I'm hearing all this "if LBJ wins this year" talk, what if Kobe repeats again this year? People gonna still proclaim LBJ as the best in the L still? LeBron HAS to win the title this year, no if ands or buts about it. You can't have the best record in the L two years in a row, get MVP two years in a row and fail to win it all, and yeah I know steve nash got the mvp twice and didn't win but Nash's team was never favorites like the Cavs to win or go to the finals. Can't wait until the playoffs start so all this s**t can be settled for good.
 8 years ago '04        #111
aldo 
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 dre03 said:
I agree Kobe was just as important as Shaq on the Lakers but that doesnt make him the leader or vocal point of the team... I believe he was as important as Shaq wouldnt have won without Kobe but that doesnt make Kobe the leader or the weight of that team...

For example, lets say i was trying to lift a 400lb box... By myself i can only lift 300lbs... In order to reach my goal i need help lifting the box... So if i go and get help to help me lift the remaining 100lbs that person becomes as important to my goal as i am cuz without him i couldnt lift the box... But the fact still remains that i carried a heavier load and i was the one who made the decision to get help... Anytime there is a team or group moving towards a common goal collectively there has to be a leader of that group...

With the Lakers it was Shaq that carried the load as the offense was designed to go through him... The Lakers attacked you from the inside out... Not the outside in... They pounded the ball inside for 3 quarters and let Kobe dominate the 4th quarters cuz Shaq couldnt shoot free throws... Teams gameplanned for Shaq first and Kobe second...

This is what I been tryna tell this f*gtastic Fruitilicious Fudgepackin' Burger King Have It Your Way a.ss n*gga hood135 for the last 4 hours. Shaq was WITHOUT A DOUBT THE UNQUESTIONED LEADER OF THAT 3-PEAT TEAM. They ran everything through him on offense, and funneled everything his way on defense, he dominated both ends of the floor, if you don't understand that, either you don't know basketball, or you was the one in Kobe room in Colorado.
 8 years ago '04        #112
doczdaname 28 heat pts28
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what is this per made up garbage..I think all of hollingers peers laugh at him with his made up formula to determine the best team and best player

he tries to tell you that x player would be this if he played 48min instead of what he avg at 39min..no one will ever average 48min a season and if they did they would break down during the season thus hurting their stat line..way i see it, this PER s**t is bogus because it is all in theory.

Jordan k!lled it that season and yea bron came kind of close but to say this will be the greatest statistical year ever by a player just doesnt sound right when you see jordan 32-8-8 and Robertson avg a trip-dub for an ENTIRE YEAR..i dont care what era it is in, that has to be the hardest thing to do in the nba, so to me oscar gets all the credit for doing that for an entire year.

edit: In his rookie season, Robertson finished with incredible all-around stats of 30.5 points, 10.1 rebounds and 9.7 a.ssists (leading the league)

In the 1961–62 season, Robertson wrote NBA history. In that season, he became the only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for the entire season, averaging 30.8 points, 11.4 a.ssists and 12.5 rebounds per game.

In fact, the averages for his first five seasons in the NBA are a triple-double again: 30.3 points per game, 10.4 rebounds and 10.6 a.ssists.


this dude was like a f**kin video game..how do you avg that over 5 seasons! hollinger, come on son!


Last edited by doczdaname; 03-31-2010 at 03:27 PM..
 8 years ago '06        #113
canal_boys 8 heat pts
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Lebron's team is too deep this year. They got this..

http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?t=29802
 8 years ago '10        #114
beast mode 25 heat pts25
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 hood135 said:
Stopped reading after the first sentence....
kobes not the best regular seaon player nor is he the best playoff player,
 03-31-2010, 03:55 PM         #115
fmoney88  OP
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this is obvious, who doesn't know this. The only other players that i could even think of to argue against this are shaq and duncan. Other than those two, Lebron is the best player since jordan


Last edited by fmoney88; 03-31-2010 at 03:56 PM..
 8 years ago '06        #116
hood135 2 heat pts
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 dre03 said:
I agree Kobe was just as important as Shaq on the Lakers but that doesnt make him the leader or vocal point of the team... I believe he was as important as Shaq wouldnt have won without Kobe but that doesnt make Kobe the leader or the weight of that team...

For example, lets say i was trying to lift a 400lb box... By myself i can only lift 300lbs... In order to reach my goal i need help lifting the box... So if i go and get help to help me lift the remaining 100lbs that person becomes as important to my goal as i am cuz without him i couldnt lift the box... But the fact still remains that i carried a heavier load and i was the one who made the decision to get help... Anytime there is a team or group moving towards a common goal collectively there has to be a leader of that group...

With the Lakers it was Shaq that carried the load as the offense was designed to go through him... The Lakers attacked you from the inside out... Not the outside in... They pounded the ball inside for 3 quarters and let Kobe dominate the 4th quarters cuz Shaq couldnt shoot free throws... Teams gameplanned for Shaq first and Kobe second...

We'll have to agree to disagree. We've "never" known Shaq to be a vocal leader. He just plays. I agree with everything going through Shaq because that's basketball but saying that his load was heavier because of it, is just not true.

My take on it is this, Shaq anchored the inside on 'O' and 'D' and Kobe anchored the outside on 'O' and 'D'. Shaq owned the mismatch advantage so we ran through him. When they decided to double, we ran through Kobe...making Shaq the first option/best option...not necessarily the leader. Like you said, a lot of the time, Shaq was sidelined in the 4th because he couldn't hit freethrows. During that time, Kobe ran the show. That said, if anybody lead those teams, it was Phil. He had a roster full of vets and didn't have to say much but that's where the leadership came from. And just thinking back, the only one who got "ra ra" and emotional during games was Kobe. I didn't say that to say he was the leader and guys followed, but he was always more vocal.

So in my book, people are basing their opinions strictly off of statistics. Both players brought intangibles to the table that made the team great but as far as being the captain of the ship, I think it was co-piloted. Shaq didn't lead them vocally or emotionally...he just played. Same with Kobe.

At the end of the day, the majority base their opinions off of the stats and the accolades that came with the stats. There is so much more to it than that.
 8 years ago '06        #117
marcusaka50 58 heat pts58
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he is the best player in the L now you could put him on any team and they have a chance to win a championship you cant do that with any other player in the L
 8 years ago '06        #118
hood135 2 heat pts
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 aldo said:

This is what I been tryna tell this f*gtastic Fruitilicious Fudgepackin' Burger King Have It Your Way a.ss n*gga hood135 for the last 4 hours. Shaq was WITHOUT A DOUBT THE UNQUESTIONED LEADER OF THAT 3-PEAT TEAM. They ran everything through him on offense, and funneled everything his way on defense, he dominated both ends of the floor, if you don't understand that, either you don't know basketball, or you was the one in Kobe room in Colorado.
I still don't know what you're arguing? The points that Dre made are just that "his points". Unquestioned leader? I say one of. Yes they ran the O through him. I said this. Why are you crying? He dominated both ends of the floor. Who is denying that? Who are you arguing with because those are points that I made as well? Your reading comprehension is a.ss.
 8 years ago '06        #119
hood135 2 heat pts
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 beast mode said:
kobes not the best regular seaon player nor is he the best playoff player,
He's a champion though....
 8 years ago '07        #120
kakish 9 heat pts
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 Bedlam said:
This f**got writes another article about his made up stat.

Why does ESPN pay him for this s**t? It's embarrassing...
ESPN has terrible articles 98% of the time...whoever paid to be an "insider" so they can read s**t like this is a fool.
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