John Hollinger: LeBron James the best NBA player since Michael Jordan

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 8 years ago '09        #81
Acid Rap 78 heat pts78
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Jamarcus Russell done told me that Darko owns Kobe and Lebron so this thread is pointless.
 8 years ago '04        #82
dre03 
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 TheG1ftedOne said:
Dont count the 3 but Kobe been to 3 finals since Bron been into the league and still has 1 more ring than him even since he been in the league...
and Bron is yet to win an NBA finals game

Nah my n*gga dont try that making it to the finals s**t now... U and every other Kobe stan dont give Lebron his credit for taking his team to the finals... so dont try and use it as a positive for Kobe now... I refuse to allow that hypocritical statement have any leverage in this discussion... You gone praise Kobe for making the Finals and losing then Lebron has to be praised as well... Winning a game doesnt matter the goal is to win the series...

If Lebron does win this year than since Bron has been in the league he will have the same amount of championships and Finals MVP as a 13 year veteran... If Lebron wins this year there should be no debate on who has been the better player the last 7 years... Kobe would have nothing over Lebron... Not MVP's, Not scoring titles, not rings, not finals mvp... what would be your argument then... The 3 championships he won alongside Shaq of course... Thats all you can argue at that point
 8 years ago '04        #83
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 dre03 said:
Nah my n*gga dont try that making it to the finals s**t now... U and every other Kobe stan dont give Lebron his credit for taking his team to the finals... so dont try and use it as a positive for Kobe now... I refuse to allow that hypocritical statement have any leverage in this discussion... You gone praise Kobe for making the Finals and losing then Lebron has to be praised as well... Winning a game doesnt matter the goal is to win the series...

If Lebron does win this year than since Bron has been in the league he will have the same amount of championships and Finals MVP as a 13 year veteran... If Lebron wins this year there should be no debate on who has been the better player the last 7 years... Kobe would have nothing over Lebron... Not MVP's, Not scoring titles, not rings, not finals mvp... what would be your argument then... The 3 championships he won alongside Shaq of course... Thats all you can argue at that point
So Kareem only has 1 title because the rest were won alongside Magic?

Or does this logic only apply in Kobe/Lebron arguments?
 8 years ago '04        #84
dre03 
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 akademiks said:
:dancingcool:



As much as people want to reward "effort" and all that, a player just won't be recognized as an all-time great without any titles.
I stop reading after this line...

10% of the 50 greatest players dont have any titles...

One is the all-time a.ssist leader
Two were considered the greatest PF's of all time when they retired
One is considered a top 5 center of all-time

So maybe you cant be considered an all-time great without title in your eyes... But the NBA dont care what you think... The fact of the matter is those players are considered greats whether u believe they are or not...
 8 years ago '06        #85
teh truth 2 heat pts
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i have no problem wit lebron but kobes skill jordans skill >>>>>>>>

lebron cant post barley has a jumpshot

he uses his muscle to drive the paint then booom!!! thats it????

but that is expected since he is still young, he keeps playing like this he willl end up like vince carters etc..

until he developes a legit jumpshot no way in hell i wanna pass the torch to someone who doesnt use their basketball skills but the god given talent

come age 30 his body is beat up he needs to develope that fade away like the jordans and the kobes

so basically you guys are telling me

lebron jjames>jordan

cuz kobe is jordan
 8 years ago '04        #86
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 dre03 said:
I stop reading after this line...

10% of the 50 greatest players dont have any titles...

One is the all-time a.ssist leader
Two were considered the greatest PF's of all time when they retired
One is considered a top 5 center of all-time

So maybe you cant be considered an all-time great without title in your eyes... But the NBA dont care what you think... The fact of the matter is those players are considered greats whether u believe they are or not...
10% is 5 people

So 45 out of the 50 greatest players have titles?

Anyways, by "all-time great" I was talking about top 10 - 15 status, where your spot among basketball's elite is essentially unquestioned.



P.S. I hope its not Ewing you're talking about as a top 5 center of all time.


Last edited by A.G; 03-31-2010 at 11:45 AM..
 8 years ago '04        #87
dre03 
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 akademiks said:
So Kareem only has 1 title because the rest were won alongside Magic?

Or does this logic only apply in Kobe/Lebron arguments?
Actually that logic always applies... Kareem led his team to two Championships... and was a role player on the other 4... Hence he has two finals MVP...

You do realize Kareem was with the Lakers 4 years before Magic got there and ironically MAgic's first year he won a title... And there was a reason Magic was playing Center, PF, SF, Sg and PG in that Finals... Kareem got injured in the Finals

I would imagine at 32 years old playing alongside Magic you were mostly a sidekick not the best player... He won his last 2 championships at 39 and 40... u seriously arguing who was the leader of that team...
 8 years ago '08        #88
Imagin3 3 heat pts
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 dre03 said:
I stop reading after this line...

10% of the 50 greatest players dont have any titles...

One is the all-time a.ssist leader
Two were considered the greatest PF's of all time when they retired
One is considered a top 5 center of all-time

So maybe you cant be considered an all-time great without title in your eyes... But the NBA dont care what you think... The fact of the matter is those players are considered greats whether u believe they are or not...
The best of the best all have rings.
/thread.
 8 years ago '04        #89
dre03 
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 akademiks said:
10% is 5 people

So 45 out of the 50 greatest players have titles?

Anyways, by "all-time great" I was talking about top 10 - 15 status, where your spot among basketball's elite is essentially unquestioned.



P.S. I hope its not Ewing you're talking about as a top 5 center of all time.
So ur telling me John Stockton Charles Barkley and Karl Malone are not top 15 all time??? None of those players are top 15...
 8 years ago '04        #90
dre03 
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 Imagin3 said:
The best of the best all have rings.
/thread.
This man said all-time greats... Now if your trying to order which great goes where then yeah rings become an argument... But to be an all-time great you do not have to win a title...
 8 years ago '04        #91
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 dre03 said:
Actually that logic always applies... Kareem led his team to two Championships... and was a role player on the other 4... Hence he has two finals MVP...

You do realize Kareem was with the Lakers 4 years before Magic got there and ironically MAgic's first year he won a title... And there was a reason Magic was playing Center, PF, SF, Sg and PG in that Finals... Kareem got injured in the Finals

I would imagine at 32 years old playing alongside Magic you were mostly a sidekick not the best player... He won his last 2 championships at 39 and 40... u seriously arguing who was the leader of that team...
That logic is horrible. If you honestly think the only one who's championship means anything is the finals MVP, then that's just embarrassing.

Kareem won the league MVP the year Magic came into the league as a rookie. And in all honesty, Magic is my favorite player of all time, but he did not deserve that finals MVP. The last 2 titles, sure you can say that he was along for the ride - and he's said it himself that the only reason he was playing was because he knew the team could compete for a title every year.

There's a reason why Kareem is still a top 5 player in league history despite people trying to say he was a sidekick during the Lakers' championship run - which is btw, untrue..
 03-31-2010, 11:59 AM         #92
AbsLikeJesus  OP
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 akademiks said:
As much as people want to reward "effort" and all that, a player just won't be recognized as an all-time great without any titles. Whether Lebron wins the MVP award for the next 8 years will be irrelevant if he never wins, because then that'll bring up questions about his leadership and whether he was really playing with the will to win or did he play to pad his stats and cash in his cheques.. Regardless of whether it's deserved criticism or not.
You have stressed my point even more. Fact is it's a team sport and no one man can be held accountable for a championship, so why is that when the team wins, THEN the best player gets accounted for that championship?

Why is Karl Malone looked down upon so much? Robert Horry's story is old, but thats why I gave the Bill Russell approach who was actually a good player with the most championships, but would you rank him as number 1? You wouldn't, now why wouldn't you? Because "we know he's not on the level of anyone that came after him, even those that are much less accomplished" so why can that be said about other previous players? Some people still have LeBron in the 30's/40's and even 50's of all time, why? How can you see that some players are clearly better than previous ones, like lets say Kareem vs. George Mikan, but not others like lets say LeBron James or Pete Maravich? Or James Worthy?

Fact is, people aren't being consistent in their rankings and thats what irks me. People can accept that previous winners with better stats are worse than current players, and yet current players like LeBron have better stats and are drawing in more and more accomplishments are still being ranked lower than some other previous players.
 8 years ago '04        #93
dre03 
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 akademiks said:
That logic is horrible. If you honestly think the only one who's championship means anything is the finals MVP, then that's just embarrassing.

Kareem won the league MVP the year Magic came into the league as a rookie. And in all honesty, Magic is my favorite player of all time, but he did not deserve that finals MVP. The last 2 titles, sure you can say that he was along for the ride - and he's said it himself that the only reason he was playing was because he knew the team could compete for a title every year.

There's a reason why Kareem is still a top 5 player in league history despite people trying to say he was a sidekick during the Lakers' championship run - which is btw, untrue..
u dumbass im not responding to u anymore until u actually read the post i responded too... They were talking bout excluding Kobe's previous rings and defining what he has done as a unanimous leader of the team...

Go read first and stfu... Of course the rings count... regardless if your a sidekick or not... But leading a team to a ring and being a sidekick are two different things...
 8 years ago '04        #94
Cap Peeler 7 heat pts
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 PBM24 said:
[IMG]

Only two items of interest remain. First, will some sycophant homer screw up what should be a unanimous decision with a completely indefensible vote for his local guy? And second, is this the best individual season a player has ever had?

A homer talking about other homers

Bron's d*ck is so up his a.ss is not even funny ..

And what the f**k is PER? is that some bulls**t formula he invented or some s**t?? ?


Last edited by Cap Peeler; 03-31-2010 at 12:03 PM..
 8 years ago '04        #95
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 dre03 said:
So ur telling me John Stockton Charles Barkley and Karl Malone are not top 15 all time??? None of those players are top 15...
Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Oscar
Hakeem
Kobe
West
Bird
Robinson
Havlicek
Petit
Garnett
Isiah
Erving

They can all be arguably put above Stockton, Malone & Barkley. And even Moses Malone is considered better than all of them (like I said before) and he may not have even been a better player than Karl.

And can't forget about Baylor who was better than all 3 of the guys you listed too.
 8 years ago '04        #96
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 dre03 said:
u dumbass im not responding to u anymore until u actually read the post i responded too... They were talking bout excluding Kobe's previous rings and defining what he has done as a unanimous leader of the team...

Go read first and stfu... Of course the rings count... regardless if your a sidekick or not... But leading a team to a ring and being a sidekick are two different things...




I think you're a f**king moron if you think Kobe was a sidekick for the last 2 titles. I'll stop beating around the bush because that's really what it is.


Last edited by A.G; 03-31-2010 at 12:06 PM..
 8 years ago '07        #97
MythMade 6 heat pts
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 Cap Peeler said:
A homer talking about other homers

Bron's d*ck is so up his a.ss is not even funny ..

And what the f**k is PER? is that some bulls**t formula he invented or some s**t?? ?


Yes he invented it,



 8 years ago '06        #98
hood135 2 heat pts
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 aldo said:
I like how you flip everything around, call me dumbass to make yourself sound better. You Kobe warriors are some ol' 'BK have it your way a.ss n*ggas'. That team that was gutted still had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler, and they still missed the playoffs. Kobe didn't do anything until Andrew Bynum finally came around and they got Pau Gasol, 2 big men if you didn't notice. And to answer your question of who else has done that.....did you hear of the Miami Heat, who traded away 3 of their top 4 players, made the East Finals the next year, gutted that team again to win the title the year after that, and this other team called the Boston Celtics did it too, gutted they team from top to bottom basically and won the title, your an idoit bruh. And @ you for going around the last question, I'm asking about 2000-2002 jackass, who would you rather PLAY WITHOUT? Kobe himself in 2003 said and I quote "with Shaq, we are the 3-time defending NBA Champ Lakers, without him, we are the no-time defending Champ Lakers" GHTFOH and go jerk off to Kobe pics. Shaq & Duncan>>>>>Kobe, your foolish to think otherwise.
Flip what around dude? My point was that Kobe was just as important to those teams as Shaq and then I proceeded to tell why. You caught feelings because you felt like I was discrediting Shaq. I wasn't. Get over it. You're pathetic.

The Lakers were gutted and f**king started Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Sasha...etc. over the next few years. Kobe didn't do anything in those years? You can't be serious. Nobody wins a championship with a team full of bums. What did you want him to do?

And you're bringing up Miami and Boston like they had a "DYnasty" in place before the trades happened. The Lakers dismantled a championship team and made another one. Miami? Boston? f**k outta here.

And no s**t, without Shaq the Lakers lose. Same can be said about Kobe. Whats your point? And to answer your question, I wouldn't want to play without either one. What kind of stupid a.ss question is that? You lose either way.

Thanks for creating an argument out of thin air by the way. Argue that Shaq and Duncan s**t with somebody else.
 8 years ago '09        #99
Acid Rap 78 heat pts78
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The thing with the title talk is... if this guy is so damn good then why is it so hard for him to get one. If he is truly THAT damn good, Jordan good, he will have a few before he retires. I can't see a guy being compared to Jordan never getting one... or two for that matter. Lebron is a victim of his own hype.
 8 years ago '05        #100
TheT 21 heat pts21
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 Scallinno said:
I'd rather go off of what I see. If you were old enough to understand the game of basketball when Jordan was playing, then you'd know that nobody is/was better than Mike.

Title's really don't define how great of a player you are. They tell how good your whole team is, and they give you a chance to prove what you can do in the biggest pressure situation, but it is a team sport and a small sample size compared to your whole career.

I've always thought most of these "stat-geeks" don't know what the hell they're talking about. That's like per 48 minutes. If that's not one of the stupidest stats there is, I don't know what is. Anybody that has played sports before knows that all players can't maintain a level of play when they're tired.

I like LeBron, always have, but there's nothing that makes me take him over Mike or Kobe. I feel he'll definitely be top 10 all time.
This is the same way I feel man. The best thing to do in my opinion is to go by what you see. There are too many other factors that play into stats/championships.
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