John Hollinger: LeBron James the best NBA player since Michael Jordan

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 8 years ago '08        #41
Main Event 55 heat pts55
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People discrediting Shaq to hype up Kobe i see :lachen001:
 8 years ago '06        #42
hood135 2 heat pts
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 Main Event said:
People discrediting Shaq to hype up Kobe i see :lachen001:
Ain't nobody discrediting Shaq. Just saying that Kobe was just as important to those championship teams.
 8 years ago '04        #43
aldo 
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 hood135 said:
How so? Shaq presented the biggest match-up problem because of his size and not necessarily his skill. Why wouldn't he put up crazy numbers if we're going to him every time down and telling him to score it over small defenders?

So as far as that is concerned, everyone would run an offense through Shaq and in no way should anything be taken away from how great Kobe was on those teams though. He played facilitator and playmaker throughout. He made big shot after big shot. And in many cases, he carried the team when Shaq couldn't be on the floor because of 'hack a Shaq' or him just being in foul trouble.

Out of the two during those years, Kobe was the best basketball player, but Shaq owned the match-up advantage. I think they were equally as important to those championship teams.
Your retarded. Shaq was the biggest, most athletic, quickest and SKILLED big man the game has ever seen, he top 10 all-time, easily. His basketball I.Q., his passing ability, the hook, the fade away, the ability at 7'1, 300lbs+ to grab a rebound and go the length of the floor and dunk the basketball, your gonna tell me he didn't have much skill but just was bigger than everybody else? You realize the NBA went to a zone because of this man right? You serious right now? If Kobe was the better player, how come it took him 4 years to win a playoff series after Shaq left? How can you say Kobe was the better basketball player? Answer this question, if you had to choose one to PLAY WITHOUT, who would you choose?
 8 years ago '04        #44
wheezyfbaby 9 heat pts
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LeBron is the best statistical player since MJ. That's a given, but best player period since MJ? No
 8 years ago '08        #45
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 hood135 said:
Ain't nobody discrediting Shaq. Just saying that Kobe was just as important to those championship teams.
Saying he's the only matchup problem because of his size and not necessarily his skill? Cmon dog you're better then that
 8 years ago '06        #46
hood135 2 heat pts
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 aldo said:
Your retarded. Shaq was the biggest, most athletic, quickest and SKILLED big man the game has ever seen, he top 10 all-time, easily. His basketball I.Q., his passing ability, the hook, the fade away, the ability at 7'1, 300lbs+ to grab a rebound and go the length of the floor and dunk the basketball, your gonna tell me he didn't have much skill but just was bigger than everybody else? You realize the NBA went to a zone because of this man right? You serious right now? If Kobe was the better player, how come it took him 4 years to win a playoff series after Shaq left? How can you say Kobe was the better basketball player? Answer this question, if you had to choose one to PLAY WITHOUT, who would you choose?
We were comparing the two. I never said that he wasn't any of those things dumbass. Get the f**k outta here. I hope you're not saying that Shaq is more skilled than Kobe. And Tim Duncan says hi.

It took Kobe 4 years to win without Shaq because they completely gutted the team after Shaq and everybody else left. They rebuilt it from ground up and still managed to win it again in the same decade. Answer this...Who else has done that? I'll wait...

And as for your last question, the Lakers chose to build around Kobe. They've been successful up to this point and will be contenders for years to come because of it. So whats your point?
 8 years ago '06        #47
hood135 2 heat pts
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 Main Event said:
Saying he's the only matchup problem because of his size and not necessarily his skill? Cmon dog you're better then that
I'll admit that I just s**tted on Shaq's post game. It was a combination of size and skill that made him the matchup problem. BUT...I can say that it was more size than skill. There were more skilled big men out there but non that could match his size....besides Sobonis.
 8 years ago '09        #48
TheG1ftedOne 4 heat pts
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 Black Magick said:
Again, LBJ is only 25 years old and been in the league 7 years....
Why so much emphasis and hate for not having a ring(s) yet?
Becuase rings are the reason Lebron puts up the stats he does

If its for a different reason then he shouldnt be playing
 8 years ago '06        #49
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 akademiks said:
LMAO.. Is that what you do now? Intentionally misremember posts to try and get your point across? I never "swore" by TS%, I just think it's the best metric for culminating 3 point %, free throw % and 2 point fg%. I just said it was a better alternative to FG%, which you were using as the holy grail of deciding how good of a shooter a player is. FG% pretty much outdated in today's game given how big of a factor the 3 point shot is.

Hollinger uses PER to essentially decide who the best player is, which is asinine at best.
get real....i threw the per s**t on u when u was on the tsp s**t.U pick and choose stats that fit ur argument.Hollinger created the TSP to determine the best all around shooter and the PER to determine the best all around player using the same basic prinicple.He was bored one day and came up with these calculations because he saw the qb rating in the nfl.U can't pick one and shoot down the other when it's made from the same guy on the same principles.

i can sit down and create a formula for passing in the nfl and post it under some writers name and if it fit ur argument for ur favorite player u would throw out the completion percentage stat and call it useless because it just measures overall completion percentage and not taking into account short,mid-range,and long passes

don't get mad


Last edited by philly337; 03-31-2010 at 10:13 AM..
 8 years ago '04        #50
Pichito25 2 heat pts
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 hood135 said:
Stopped reading after the first sentence....
exactly........The legend of Mike was soo much more than regular season. why even compare?
 8 years ago '05        #51
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 Black Magick said:
That made no sense....

But my point remains. The guys is only 25 years old and has been in the league 7 years. The way some of you talk about him not having rings, you would think the guy is in the last days of his career and still have no rings to show for it. LBJ hasn't even reached his prime yet, so y'all need to chill with the hate over him having no championships yet.

MJ put up great numbers coming into the league, but didn't get his first one until he was 27 in his 7th year. Kobe put up good numbers and didn't LEAD his team to a title until he was 30. Give the guy a break.....
but bron isnt any different then anyone else that doesnt have a ring, like hollinger said people were talking about jordan the same way. if you have a bunch of people calling you GREAT already you are also going to have a bunch of people that question that greatness until you actually win
 8 years ago '09        #52
TheG1ftedOne 4 heat pts
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 Black Magick said:
That made no sense....

But my point remains. The guys is only 25 years old and has been in the league 7 years. The way some of you talk about him not having rings, you would think the guy is in the last days of his career and still have no rings to show for it. LBJ hasn't even reached his prime yet, so y'all need to chill with the hate over him having no championships yet.

MJ put up great numbers coming into the league, but didn't get his first one until he was 27 in his 7th year. Kobe put up good numbers and didn't LEAD his team to a title until he was 30. Give the guy a break.....
That made no sense?

What's Lebron putting up those stats for then? Dont tell me its not to win a game..
 8 years ago '09        #53
TheG1ftedOne 4 heat pts
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 P. Dedos said:
Anybody who said anybody becides shaq in this thread is a moron
Anybody who spells besides with a "c" is a moron
 8 years ago '09        #54
TERRANCE CRACK 48 heat pts48
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 StateProperty88 said:
but bron isnt any different then anyone else that doesnt have a ring, like hollinger said people were talking about jordan the same way. if you have a bunch of people calling you GREAT already you are also going to have a bunch of people that question that greatness until you actually win
idk about all that now,u sayin josh powell is better than this guy?
 8 years ago '05        #55
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 TERRANCE CRACK said:
idk about all that now,u sayin josh powell is better than this guy?
what does josh powell have to do with anything i said?
 8 years ago '09        #56
TheG1ftedOne 4 heat pts
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 Black Magick said:
That's my whole point, to be honest. We saw Jordan eventually go on to win championships, we saw Kobe do it, now let's watch LeBron do it. But somehow, people on here are acting like LBJ is supposed to have already won multiple rings. That's what I don't understand....
Becuase people want to say Lebron is already better than Kobe... So instead of people trying to make him better than Kobe already, let his career play out instead of taking a 7 year snippet of his career and try to say he is alread better than Kobe.
 8 years ago '05        #57
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 Black Magick said:
That's my whole point, to be honest. We saw Jordan eventually go on to win championships, we saw Kobe do it, now let's watch LeBron do it. But somehow, people on here are acting like LBJ is supposed to have already won multiple rings. That's what I don't understand....
people on here are also acting like he is on jordan's level, like i said there is a yin and a yang to this. people are going to say he is great as jordan but what made jordan great doesnt really have anything to do with the regular season
 8 years ago '04        #58
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
get real....i threw the per s**t on u when u was on the tsp s**t.U pick and choose stats that fit ur argument.Hollinger created the TSP to determine the best all around shooter and the PER to determine the best all around player using the same basic prinicple.He was bored one day and came up with these calculations because he saw the qb rating in the nfl.U can't pick one and shoot down the other when it's made from the same guy on the same principles.

i can sit down and create a formula for passing in the nfl and post it under some writers name and if it fit ur argument for ur favorite player u would throw out the completion percentage stat and call it useless because it just measures overall completion percentage and not taking into account short,mid-range,and long passes

don't get mad
I pick and choose stats that fit my argument? Wow.. You do realize that the two stats are completely different from each other?

I know exactly the way both stats work. Because I think one is useful, doesn't make the other one useful by a.ssociation of having the same guy make both of them up.

Its not the same basic principle because TS% takes into account the value of a free throw, the 3 point shot and a 2 point shot, which are ABSOLUTE and not relative. PER ARBITRARILY a.ssigns the value of a rebound, turnover, block, steal, minutes per game, pace and other things in accordance to how important Hollinger thinks they are.

Big difference.

And honestly I'm tired of your stupidity. Do you get more points from a short/mid/short pass if none of them directly result in a touchdown? Are you trying to make a horrible argument or does it just come naturally?
 8 years ago '04        #59
aldo 
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 hood135 said:
We were comparing the two. I never said that he wasn't any of those things dumbass. Get the f**k outta here. I hope you're not saying that Shaq is more skilled than Kobe. And Tim Duncan says hi.

It took Kobe 4 years to win without Shaq because they completely gutted the team after Shaq and everybody else left. They rebuilt it from ground up and still managed to win it again in the same decade. Answer this...Who else has done that? I'll wait...

And as for your last question, the Lakers chose to build around Kobe. They've been successful up to this point and will be contenders for years to come because of it. So whats your point?
I like how you flip everything around, call me dumbass to make yourself sound better. You Kobe warriors are some ol' 'BK have it your way a.ss n*ggas'. That team that was gutted still had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler, and they still missed the playoffs. Kobe didn't do anything until Andrew Bynum finally came around and they got Pau Gasol, 2 big men if you didn't notice. And to answer your question of who else has done that.....did you hear of the Miami Heat, who traded away 3 of their top 4 players, made the East Finals the next year, gutted that team again to win the title the year after that, and this other team called the Boston Celtics did it too, gutted they team from top to bottom basically and won the title, your an idoit bruh. And @ you for going around the last question, I'm asking about 2000-2002 jackass, who would you rather PLAY WITHOUT? Kobe himself in 2003 said and I quote "with Shaq, we are the 3-time defending NBA Champ Lakers, without him, we are the no-time defending Champ Lakers" GHTFOH and go jerk off to Kobe pics. Shaq & Duncan>>>>>Kobe, your foolish to think otherwise.


Last edited by aldo; 03-31-2010 at 10:37 AM..
 8 years ago '05        #60
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 Black Magick said:
Those people are idiots....
but realistically people want to compare careers and when you are comparing bron's career to guys like jordan and kobe there is one thing missing (even if you do feel as though kobe lead them to only 1 instead of 4, thats still more then bron) so people cant compare their careers and say bron has as good of a career as those guys and then turn around and get upset when someone says that he doesnt have the hardware to prove it YET.
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