Mar 21 - House Passes Sweeping Health Care Reform

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 8 years ago '04        #141
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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 1angrypinoy said:
The insurance companies don't have to participate in the bs, but Joe Citizen will be fined for non-compliance. Long Live Obama!
I hope you're joking. Do you need to re read that?

They say if you are ALREADY providing healthcare to your employees or if you ALREADY have private coverage.

But for those small business owners who aren't big enough to issue employee benefits, or for those people who lost their benefits along with their jobs, they're f**ked.


Last edited by ItAlY2BkLyN; 03-23-2010 at 03:20 PM..
 03-23-2010, 03:42 PM         #142
1angrypinoy 
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 ItAlY2BkLyN said:
I hope you're joking. Do you need to re read that?

They say if you are ALREADY providing healthcare to your employees or if you ALREADY have private coverage.

But for those small business owners who aren't big enough to issue employee benefits, or for those people who lost their benefits along with their jobs, they're f**ked.
It's what's on the Senate version of the healthcare reform bill. Here's the

If a business can't find a private insurance company that offers (affordable) healthcare insurance, then that means the business has to buy a government healthcare plan or else be penalized with an additional tax.

The healthcare reform bill is the first step in moving towards a single healthcare insurance provider, i.e the government. The government is using force in the guise of "universal health care coverage" to make people buy health insurance, namely theirs, so that politicians can line their pockets.
 8 years ago '04        #143
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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ok I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that companies and individuals don't have to do that.

I fully agree this is a way the gov't is forcing people into their own system.
 8 years ago '08        #144
stlcardinals19 32 heat pts32
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 DaKidB.A.N.K.$ said:


oh and let me rephrase myself. Doctor's are considering quitting if this bill passes.




Media Matters for America contacted The New England Journal of Medicine and received confirmation from spokesperson Jennifer Zeis that the study had "nothing to do with the New England Journal of Medicine's original research." Zeis also made clear that the study "was not published by the New England Journal of Medicine."
 8 years ago '04        #145
DaKidB.A.N.K.$ 5 heat pts
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 stlcardinals19 said:


well either way, there are still doctor's considering quitting. may not be in the 46th percentile but s**t i guess we'll see won't we. Our government is now forcing us to do something that is unconstitutional. the whole point of america is the freedom of choice. where has that gone now. Right down the damn drain.
 03-23-2010, 08:36 PM         #146
killya 
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lol at people actually defending this bill. its no conspiracy that it f**king sucks.
 8 years ago '04        #147
Screwhead|m 194 heat pts194
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U.S. faces possible US$52B tax hike


Not only is the cost of doing business in the United States set to rise with the passing of Barack Obama's health-care reform bill, but the expense for taxpayers may also be higher than anticipated. With an additional 32 million Americans expected to eventually receive health insurance coverage, much of the price tag will be paid by businesses.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which criticized the bill for saddling an already burdened corporate America with additional costs, noted that it will lead to US$52-billion in new taxes on companies as a result of the requirement that more employees be covered by insurance. At the same time, the organization said the legislation creates 16,500 new jobs in the Internal Revenue Service.

"The House made a wrong and unfortunate decision that ignores the will of the American people," said Thomas Donohue, the Chamber's chief executive. "It will drive up health-care costs and make coverage less affordable for businesses and families.... It will further expand entitlements and explode the deficit, and raises taxes by a half a trillion dollars at the worst possible time."
continued:

 8 years ago '08        #148
stlcardinals19 32 heat pts32
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 Screwhead said:
continued:

U.S. faces possible US$52B tax hike


Not only is the cost of doing business in the United States set to rise with the passing of Barack Obama's health-care reform bill, but the expense for taxpayers may also be higher than anticipated. With an additional 32 million Americans expected to eventually receive health insurance coverage, much of the price tag will be paid by businesses.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which criticized the bill for saddling an already burdened corporate America with additional costs, noted that it will lead to US$52-billion in new taxes on companies as a result of the requirement that more employees be covered by insurance. At the same time, the organization said the legislation creates 16,500 new jobs in the Internal Revenue Service.

"The House made a wrong and unfortunate decision that ignores the will of the American people," said Thomas Donohue, the Chamber's chief executive. "It will drive up health-care costs and make coverage less affordable for businesses and families.... It will further expand entitlements and explode the deficit, and raises taxes by a half a trillion dollars at the worst possible time."
Eh, This Chambers of Commerce have a rep for being GOP shills, and IIRC the 16,000 number was made up by House Republicans.

Also, the bolded part is where My waste-of-time-detector went crazy.....


Last edited by stlcardinals19; 03-23-2010 at 10:40 PM..
 8 years ago '08        #149
stlcardinals19 32 heat pts32
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 DaKidB.A.N.K.$ said:
well either way, there are still doctor's considering quitting. may not be in the 46th percentile but s**t i guess we'll see won't we. Our government is now forcing us to do something that is unconstitutional. the whole point of america is the freedom of choice. where has that gone now. Right down the damn drain.
What do you feel is unconstitutional about it? And what parts of this bill do you feel is unconstitutional?
 8 years ago '07        #150
Big Daddy 
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I'm all for giving everyone health care, but still now because of this my insurance is going to go up again next year. The only thing about the bill I don't like is that they are forcing people to get insurance, to me that is not right. Also now I wonder if my job on the line because of this, I just got it at the start of the year.
 8 years ago '04        #151
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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 stlcardinals19 said:
What do you feel is unconstitutional about it? And what parts of this bill do you feel is unconstitutional?
The whole fact that this is the first tax on simply living is unconstitutional. For the first time in history you now have to pay money just to live, or else you get fined. What kind of f**ked up nonsense is that?

What they need to do is to make it possible for those who do not heave health coverage, to pay for a broken leg when it happens. Or go to the doctor to get their tonsels out and not have to pay 1000s of dollars.


Last edited by ItAlY2BkLyN; 03-24-2010 at 12:08 AM..
 8 years ago '05        #152
hbk83 1 heat pts
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 Big Daddy said:
I'm all for giving everyone health care, but still now because of this my insurance is going to go up again next year. The only thing about the bill I don't like is that they are forcing people to get insurance, to me that is not right. Also now I wonder if my job on the line because of this, I just got it at the start of the year.
Don't say it's not fair cause they are forcing people to get insurance, if the insurance companies were not so f**king corrupt we wouldnt have to do this. Everyone is always complaining, when they don't have healthcare they complain.."oh we don't have healthcare, my bills are high we cant get medicine".. Now everyone else is complaining... Money is the rule of all evil and all people are complaining about is, losing or paying money.. This is a f**ked up country.. whatever happened to caring about our brothers and sisters who hospitals and insurance companies are letting die because they don't have insurance. this is a step in helping solve that problem.
 8 years ago '04        #153
JBeezy 1 heat pts
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 Adamsville said:
separation of powers much?
What I mean is, there should be communication between the two groups regarding the Constitutional merits of a potential bill...as opposed to Congress just doing what they please and disregarding the Constitution because "the Supreme Court will handle it".

 stlcardinals19 said:
What do you feel is unconstitutional about it? And what parts of this bill do you feel is unconstitutional?
The Constitution does not grant the federal government power to mandate health care, thus it should be left to the states.

The Constitution also does not allow the federal government to penalize people for not buying a good or a service.
 8 years ago '04        #154
JBeezy 1 heat pts
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Pay for Performance (PFP) is a system that provides "incentive" payments for physicians and hospitals to comply with cost-cutting goals of government and insurance companies. Rather than being a reward for providing the best care for patients, PFP is better described as a system that punishes doctors for spending health care dollars on their patients. PFP thus really stands for "Penalties for Physicians" or "Punish for Practice". The doctor will have a choice: do the right thing and offer the most innovative and appropriate care to patients, or fail to even tell the patient about all the more costly care that is available to them. It will be difficult to trust your doctor in this new system.
An Early Target in Obamacare:
 8 years ago '04        #155
Screwhead|m 194 heat pts194
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 stlcardinals19 said:
Eh, This Chambers of Commerce have a rep for being GOP shills, and IIRC the 16,000 number was made up by House Republicans.
Everyone becomes a "shill" when the opinion of the moment is criticized.....

Also, I still haven't seen any proof (on this site, from the media, etc.) showing that the 16,000 number was "made up"/fabricated.



 stlcardinals19 said:
Also, the bolded part is where My waste-of-time-detector went crazy.....
"Corporate America" doesn't always symbolize big business.

Besides, many of the big businesses/lobbies you are probably speaking of were the ones in favor of this bill.


Last edited by Screwhead; 03-24-2010 at 07:37 AM..
 03-24-2010, 08:20 AM         #156
MOSILVER7 
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Giving 4 years to make this thing bullet proof..........I forsee loop holes and madness...
 8 years ago '08        #157
stlcardinals19 32 heat pts32
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 JBeezy said:
The Constitution does not grant the federal government power to mandate health care, thus it should be left to the states.

The Constitution also does not allow the federal government to penalize people for not buying a good or a service.
That's not one of the suits because that would never fly in court. The government has done a lot of things that aren't specifically mentioned in the constitution, so precedence is on their side there.

And the penalty will most likely be changed as a tax, which the Constitution says the Govt. is able to create

Also, check this out, I don't think it's quite the k!ll shot that some others think it is, but I find this funny. from the Militia Act of 1792, signed by Washington:

That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder.


AKA, it was an individual mandate on all adult white males to own adequate weaponry to be called upon for the militia
 8 years ago '06        #158
tpoker 3 heat pts
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 DominicanLou said:
i feel u but look at the public school system...
if you're saying teachers are supposed 2 be passionate because they make wut appears to be so little money than you're a fool....why would someone walk into a profession if they feel like they are gonna get underpaid....do you kno you can get a degree in p.e. and become a teacher....im not sayin all teachers are dumb, but a lot jus happen to be there cuz they lack motivation to pursue somethin that pays more. half the chicks in the club in college are gonna be teachers. but back on topic this means more hospitals and more doctors and more jobs so f**k you.
 8 years ago '04        #159
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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^^^
false

This does not mean more hospitals / doctors and jobs

This is not to create jobs. This is to give more money to the gov't, insurance companies, etc.

In fact, there is actually a fear that there will be less doctors.

With universal healthcare, the standards and quality of healthcare will go down.

Yea some people who are uninsured now will get coverage, but 1000's of medicaid / medicare patients will be dropped. Small business are going to close because they can't afford to provide health insurance to their employees, and the 1000's of people who have been laid off and have no income will be force to spend what they have on some bulls**t coverage just to avoid penalties.

Add kids and a family to the mix and it's more than twice the trouble.
 8 years ago '09        #160
Vincent_Chase 27 heat pts27
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def. a step in the right direction
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