5th ring/2nd Finals MVP for Kobe this year: where would he rank all time?

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Can Kobe catch number
Yes 14 63.64%
No 8 36.36%
Voters: 22. Sorry, you cannot vote on this poll (Boxden members only)

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 12-21-2009, 08:41 AM         #121
Illuminated 
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 Imagin3 said:
If Kobe wins three more rings how could you not say he was better? The reason people say MJ is better is rings.

And there were 8 teams in the league when Russel was winning. The fact that that he won so many rings isn't as much of a testament to his greatness as it tells how unbalanced the league was at that time. I'm not gonna criticize a player for when he played but you have to take it into account. And I have yet to say Kobe is better than MJ, i wasn't a knowledgeable basketball head at that age to dissect the game and tell you, I'm just saying based off what Kobe has accomplished it's arguable for him to be GOAT.
Not only does MJ's rings make him better, it's the way he won them. 3 straight as the best player on the team. Retired, then came back and won 3 more as the best player on the team. Many people say that The Bulls would've won 8 in a row if Jordan hadn't have retired. Then there's also the way both of their careers went that makes MJ better. There was never a point in MJ's career where he wasn't considered the best. He came in the league making his presence felt from the start. With Kobe, he didn't become a threat in the until years after he'd gotten in the league.

When you look at it, Kobe's own legacy didn't really start until Shaq left. Going off of what he's done since being the one carrying the load, he's only won one championship, an MVP and a scoring title. Compared to Jordan's 6 titles, 6 Finals MVP's, 10 Scoring Titles, Defensive Player Of The Year, 5 Regular Season MVP's, Countless scoring records, second all-time in steals, and lots of other accomplishments. All while being THE MAN on his team. I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe. But if he retired tomorrow with the accomplishments he has while being the leader on the team, people would laugh at the ones who says he's better than Jordan.

Kobe hasn't even done half of what MJ has done in his career and never will. Kobe can win 7 rings and it won't matter. Jordan is the better overall individual player, the better leader, the better team leader and the more dominant force. Only thing Kobe is better than MJ at is jump shooting.


Last edited by Illuminated; 12-21-2009 at 09:10 AM..
 12-21-2009, 08:49 AM         #122
jaebe3zero 
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 Sheeed said:
it's funny based off ability and skill u guys couldn't say who is better....so of course the argument resorts to accomplishments and since he two never played under the same circumstances voids the entire argument altogether
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I disagree.. Because off ability alone Mike wins.. Kobe's whole game is designed after Jordan. What can Kobe do better than Jordan? I dont think anything.. Better 3-point range. Well Kobe resorts to shooting alot of 3's cause he cant beat his man off the dribble as easy as Mike could. Jumping ability well Mike took off from the free throw line, Kobe cant do that. I mean basketball IQ mike won 6 finals on 6 attempts. I dont know what Kobe fans base on Kobe skill set being close to Mikes. Kobe should just focus on being the best laker, cause the G.O.A.T is already etched in stone.
 8 years ago '04        #123
luv4music 7 heat pts
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can we sticky this thread so no one ever has to ask this question again?

look up a few posts, read the accomplishments. they speak for themselves.

no one will ever do that again. ever.
 8 years ago '08        #124
EMER1TUS 11 heat pts11
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 demon9991 said:
that means he's 2 Championships short of Jordan
Uhh somebody need to turn in there basketball watching pass...didn't feel like searching the other dude original quote but MJ has 6 rings, if Kobe gets 7 like homie said that would be 1 more than MJ not 2 short bonehead.


Anyways, right now Kobe is the GOAT in Training and there is nothing anybody can do about it.

Fuk the he aint win without shaq-Shaq aint never win without another go-to wing player.
Fuk the he only has 4 rings-he been there 6 times with at least 6-7 years left.
Fuk the he only has 1 MVP-Seriously I easily call Steve Nash MVP's BS and give them to 24.
Fuk the he aint even the best Laker--He'd fuk Magic up and Magic knows this.
Fuk Lebron, Wade, Mello when it come to this discussion cuz if n*ggas blast Kobe for not being able to compare statistically-how can these 3?

Bottom line in the last 20 seasons going back to when MJ was playing the only other player to ever come close to the n*gga MJ is Kobe Bean Bryant....I don't know what yall n*ggas be watching if you don't see it...you can say Kobe Swagger Jackin, so what MJ stole s**t too--all the great 1's take sumn from somebody...when its all said and done Kobe haters can eat a fat d*ck...I just hope I'm alive to see his retirement press conference and ESPN's constant comparing of KOBE and MJ's Stats.
 8 years ago '08        #125
EMER1TUS 11 heat pts11
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 MemphisBoi said:
Rank among NBA All-Star Game leaders in other stats:

2nd, selections (14)
behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (16)
2nd, points, game (40)
finished with 40 points on 73.9% shooting, 8 rebounds, 3 a.ssists (1988, in Chicago)
3rd, scoring average (20.2)
3rd, minutes, career (382)
Other:

recorded the only All-Star Game triple-double (14 points, 11 rebounds, and 11 a.ssists in 1997, in Cleveland)
[edit] Regular season
Holds NBA regular season records for:

All-Defensive First Team honors (9)
shared with Gary Payton
Player Efficiency Rating, career (27.91)
points per game average, career (30.12)
consecutive games scoring in double-digits (866)
seasons leading the league in points per game average (10)
consecutive seasons leading the league in points per game average (7, 1986-87 through 1992-93)
shared with Wilt Chamberlain
Appears on the All-time top 100 list of most points per game in a season a record 9 times.
seasons leading the league in total points (11)
Appears on the All-time top 100 list of most points in a season a record 11 times.
seasons leading the league in field goals made (10)
consecutive seasons leading the league in field goals made (7)
shared with Wilt Chamberlain
seasons leading the league in field goals attempted (9)
seasons leading the league in steals per game (3)
highest Game Score on record
64.6 at the Cleveland Cavaliers on March 28, 1990
free throws made, one half
20, against the Miami Heat on December 30, 1992
free throws attempted, one half
23, against the Miami Heat on December 30, 1992
free throws made, one quarter (shared)
14, against the Utah Jazz on November 15, 1989, and against the Miami Heat on December 30, 1992
free throws attempted, one quarter (shared)
16, against the Miami Heat on December 30, 1992
steals, one half (8)
shared with 11 players
oldest player to score 50 points in one game (51 points, 7 rebounds, aged 38 years, 315 days)
against the New Orleans Hornets, December 29, 2001
oldest player and only player at age 40 or older to score 40 points in one game (43 points, 10 rebounds)
against the New Jersey Nets, February 21, 2003
scored 40 or more points 3 times, in his final year
scored 30 or more points 9 times, in his final year
scored 20 or more points 42 times, in his final year
blocked shots by a guard, season (131, 1987-88)
blocked shots by a guard, career (893)
Rank among NBA Regular season leaders in other stats:

2nd, MVP honors (5)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was voted MVP six times
2nd, seasons with 2,000 or more points (11)
Karl Malone holds the record with 12
2nd, seasons leading the league in steals (3; 1987-88, 1989-90, 1992-93)
2nd, steals, career (2,514)
2nd, consecutive points scored in a game
23 against the Atlanta Hawks on April 16, 1987; finished with 61 points
Manu Ginobili scored 24 straight on February 22, 2007
2nd, consecutive triple-doubles (7)[16]
shared with Oscar Robertson
recorded a triple-double in ten games over an eleven game stretch, March 24 April 14, 1989
fell just short in the one game, (which would have allowed for eleven consecutive triple-doubles) with a double-double effort of 40 points, 11 a.ssists and 7 rebounds.
Wilt Chamberlain had 9 straight
3rd, 60 point games (4)
2nd, 50 point games (31)
2nd, 40 point games (173)
2nd, 30 point games (561)
3rd, consecutive games scoring 20 or more points (72, December 29, 1987-December 6, 1988)
two longest streaks set by Wilt Chamberlain
Jordan also registered a streak of 69 consecutive games scoring 20 or more points during the 1990-91 season.
3rd, consecutive games scoring 40 or more points (9, November 28-December 12, 1986)
two longest streaks set by Wilt Chamberlain
3rd, total points, career (32,292)
3rd, points in a season (3,041, 1986-87)
first two held by Wilt Chamberlain
Jordan appears on this All-Time NBA Top 100 list a record 11 times
3rd, field goals attempted, career (24,537)
3rd, free throws made in a season (833, 1986-87)
Behind Jerry West (840, '66) and Wilt Chamberlain (835, '62)
Jordan is also the 10th All-Time leader for most free throws in a season (723, '88)
appears on this All-Time top 100 list a total of 6 times
4th, consecutive games (shared) scoring 40 or more points (9, 1986-87)
three longest streaks set by Wilt Chamberlain
Jordan in fact scored 40 or more points in 11 of 12 games during this period.
4th, steals per game, career (2.35)
4th, field goals made, career (12,192)
4th, free throws made, career (7,327)
6th, field goals made, season (1,098, in 1986-87)
First 4 are held by Wilt Chamberlain, 5th by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Jordan appears on this top 100 list a total an NBA record of 11 times
Jordan is also 9th in field goals made in a season (1,069, in 1987-88)
6th, field goals attempted, season (2,279, in 1987)
first 5 records are held by Wilt Chamberlain
Jordan appears on this NBA's record top 100 list a total of 10 times
6th, points per game average, season (37.1)
4 are held by Wilt Chamberlain, 1 by Elgin Baylor.
Jordan appears on this all-time NBA Top 100 list a record 10 times
6th, points per game average by a rookie, (28.2, 1984-85)
ranked 3rd that season, behind the New York Knicks Bernard King, and the Boston Celtics Larry Bird
8th, free throws attempted, career (8,772)
8th, steals per game average, season (3.16, 1987-88)
appears on the All-Time top 100 list a total of 6 times
Other:

only player in NBA history to lead league in scoring and be Defensive Player of the Year in same season
only player in NBA history to be Most Valuable Player, Defensive Player of the Year, and lead league in scoring in same season
first player in NBA history to be Most Valuable Player and Defensive Player of the Year in same season
Hakeem Olajuwon is the only other player to do so.
one of 10+ players in NBA history to lead team in four statistics in a season
In his rookie season, Jordan led his team in scoring (28.2 ppg), rebounding (6.5 rpg), a.ssists (5.9 apg) and steals (2.4 spg), hence making him also the only rookie to perform this feat. He was second on the team in blocks.
Jordan again led the Bulls in four of the five statistics in the 1987-88 season; scoring (35.0 ppg), a.ssists (5.9 apg), steals (3.2 spg) and blocked shots (1.6 bpg).
only player besides Wilt Chamberlain to score 3,000 points in a season (3,041 in 1986-87)
first player in NBA history to collect both a scoring title and win a Defensive Player of the Year award in his career
David Robinson is the only other player to do so.
first player in NBA history to record 200 steals and 100 blocked shots in a season (236 steals, 125 blocks in 1986-87)
Hakeem Olajuwon (1988-89) and Scottie Pippen (1989-90) are the only other players to do so.
only player in NBA history to consecutively record 200 steals and 100 blocked shots in a season (259 steals, 131 blocks in 1987-88)
1986 through 1988
only player in NBA history with multiple seasons of 200 steals and 100 blocked shots
first player in NBA history to lead league both in scoring average and steals in same season
did so for three seasons (1987-88, 1989-90, 1992-93)
Allen Iverson is the only other player to do so, and has performed the feat twice.
fourth player in NBA history to lead league in scoring average and win an NBA championship in same season
did so for six seasons (1990-1993, 1996-1998)
led the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls to an All-Time NBA Best Regular season record, with 72 wins, 10 losses
averaged a league high 30.4 ppg
led the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls to an All-Time NBA Best combined Regular and Post Season record with, 87 wins, 13 losses
won the 1996 and 1998 Regular Season MVP, All-Star MVP, and NBA Finals MVP
Willis Reed (1970) and Shaquille O'Neal (2000) are the only players to do so, Jordan is the only player to perform the feat twice
one of three players to be an Olympic basketball gold medalist both as an amateur and professional
one of three players in NBA history to average 20+ points, 5+ a.ssists, and 5+ rebounds as a rookie
joined by Oscar Robertson and LeBron James
The only player in NBA history that has won Rookie Of The Year (1985), Regular Season MVP (5 times), All-Star MVP (3 times), Finals MVP (6 times), and Most Defensive Player of The Year Awards.

Kobe isn't even close
See that's what I'm saying--comparing a finished career to 1 that's unfinished for the purpose of trying to discredit 24...when its all said and done my n*gga when its all said and done.
 8 years ago '08        #126
EMER1TUS 11 heat pts11
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*cough^^ n*ggas who rep Joey Button up need not talk about stans
 8 years ago '08        #127
Main Event 55 heat pts55
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Memphis Boi shutdown this thread
 8 years ago '06        #128
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 Mike Nitty said:
See that's what I'm saying--comparing a finished career to 1 that's unfinished for the purpose of trying to discredit 24...when its all said and done my n*gga when its all said and done.
and that's what i'm saying...u tryin to say if somehow kobe would catch mike in 20 seasons somehow compares to jordan doin it in 13

but besides yall are just lookin at rings.Russell is not better and has more rings....magic is right there but has not better then mike....duncan has more mvps,finals mvps,and same amount of rings but yall are callin him the greatest.Kobe will never match 5 mvps.....kobe will never even get a 3rd scoring title let alone 10....he will never get defensive player of the yer or lead the league in steals

kobe can't cacth jordan....let's say he plays 2 seasons and he ends up up winning 4 mvps in the next few season....2 more chips...2 more finals mvps...and closed out winning the scoring title every year.He STILLL wouldn't have reached mike and it took him 7 more season.
 8 years ago '06        #129
bugzy 1 heat pts
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this s**t will never end...... kobe is the best player of his era and jordan was the best of his....... at the end of the day, if 2 GM's had the number 1 and the number 2 pick if kobe is taken first the next gm wont be mad if he has 2 take jordan and vice versa.....
 8 years ago '06        #130
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 Sheeed said:
it's funny based off ability and skill u guys couldn't say who is better....so of course the argument resorts to accomplishments and since he two never played under the same circumstances voids the entire argument altogether
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lol gotta love this argument....accomplishments and stats which define ones career apparently mean nothing
 8 years ago '04        #131
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 Sheeed said:
it's funny based off ability and skill u guys couldn't say who is better....so of course the argument resorts to accomplishments and since he two never played under the same circumstances voids the entire argument altogether
Posted via Mobile Device
................
 8 years ago '04        #132
KURUPTION!!! 541 heat pts541
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Maybe best Laker ever, and that's even hard to say with Magic, but he's not touching MJ. Jordan is just Regal.
 8 years ago '06        #133
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 akademiks said:
................
was already answered and accomplishments and stats is what we define a player by.It is the very point in having them

defensive player = jordan

making everyone around better = jordan

better 3 point shooter = kobe

better mid range jumper = close

better dunker = jordan

better goin to the hoop = jordan

better off the dribble = jordan

better in clutch = jordan

better scorer = jordan

it's easy to see who's better without stats and accomplishments actually...just that the stats and accomplishments speak for it in themsleves
 8 years ago '08        #134
904Nole 1 heat pts
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Naw man Bean ain`t touching MJ. Not because he`s not more talented, but because MJ has long been considered the GOAT, so saying he isn`t would f*ck up the order of things, and people just aren`t comfortable doing that yet. MJ was head and shoulders above everyone else who ever played, just the fact that Kobe is in the conversation says a lot about Bean....
 8 years ago '04        #135
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
was already answered and accomplishments and stats is what we define a player by.It is the very point in having them

defensive player = jordan

making everyone around better = jordan

better 3 point shooter = kobe

better mid range jumper = close

better dunker = jordan

better goin to the hoop = jordan

better off the dribble = jordan

better in clutch = jordan

better scorer = jordan

it's easy to see who's better without stats and accomplishments actually...just that the stats and accomplishments speak for it in themsleves
The only thing is almost every single one of those is subjective and in your opinion. The problem with all of that is you're comparing multiple years of Jordan to the Kobe of right now.
If you're talking about the MJ that has an equal mid-range game to Kobe, he's 30+ and not even close to as good as he was a defender, scorer, dunker or slasher in his younger years.

If you want to talk at a certain point in time (like a specific year) than fine, but MJ was easily the most overrated defensive player in the league by the time he was winning titles. And that's saying a lot because Kobe's defense hasn't been as consistently good as people would like to believe either.

Stats and accomplishments weigh a lot, but they just show how dominant MJ was over his era. It doesn't mean that he's better than every player who'll ever play the game because they don't put up the same stats or accomplish the same things.

The league today has much more parity than the late 80's and 90's.

Whether you want to admit it or not, this is the strongest the league has ever been in terms of talent. Nobody is going to come in and average 37 ppg again because the game is played at a much slower pace and the defenses are much better.

I don't believe Kobe is better than MJ but the argument is a lot closer than some people want to think, and a lot of people including Phil Jackson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar have said that Kobe is a more skilled player than MJ ever was.
 8 years ago '06        #136
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 akademiks said:
The only thing is almost every single one of those is subjective and in your opinion. The problem with all of that is you're comparing multiple years of Jordan to the Kobe of right now.
If you're talking about the MJ that has an equal mid-range game to Kobe, he's 30+ and not even close to as good as he was a defender, scorer, dunker or slasher in his younger years.

If you want to talk at a certain point in time (like a specific year) than fine, but MJ was easily the most overrated defensive player in the league by the time he was winning titles. And that's saying a lot because Kobe's defense hasn't been as consistently good as people would like to believe either.

Stats and accomplishments weigh a lot, but they just show how dominant MJ was over his era. It doesn't mean that he's better than every player who'll ever play the game because they don't put up the same stats or accomplish the same things.

The league today has much more parity than the late 80's and 90's.

Whether you want to admit it or not, this is the strongest the league has ever been in terms of talent. Nobody is going to come in and average 37 ppg again because the game is played at a much slower pace and the defenses are much better.

I don't believe Kobe is better than MJ but the argument is a lot closer than some people want to think, and a lot of people including Phil Jackson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar have said that Kobe is a more skilled player than MJ ever was.
i'm goin to be honest with u i just skimmed ur post...i just get tired of u playin both sides.U admit jordan is better but always come in and agree with people sayin kobe is better and pretty much insinuate he is or they're even

and just like u say it's my opinion and all this about this and that...it's ur opinion about defense being better today because whether u want to believe it or not it isn't close.if u think lebron could just charge in the lane like he does to get a lay up in any other era but this one u are sadly mistaken.Check the leaders in steals all time and see how many are from todays era.Go ahead check blocks too.

and nobody could average 37 ar u for real?Kobe averaged 35 like 3-4 season ago and every year the scoring champ has like 30 points.This is actually the only decade where every scoring champ had over 30 points but 1 other then the 80's


Last edited by philly337; 12-21-2009 at 01:23 PM..
 12-21-2009, 02:01 PM         #137
MemphisBoi 
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Man wtf are yall on......damn!!!! Yall are saying Kobe can catch Jordan????? Hell No! Jordan is a whole career ahead of Kobe when it comes to accomplishments. If Kobe could play til he was 50, he might accomplish more than Jordan.

As far as Im concerned there will never be an argument for GOAT until somebody accomplishes more than Jordan. As of right now Kobe is not even the clear cut best Laker ever(Magic, Jerry, Shaq, Kareem, Wilt). I swear yall are crazy. There is Jordan and then there is everybody else when it comes to being ranked as an all time great. Yall can argue about who is 2nd, 3rd, 4th best and etc, but come on the only people who actually think Kobe is the greatest were born in the 90's.

Ive got a question. I know alot of yall have may have never seen Jordan play on a nightly basis. Thats cool or whatever. But yall need to go watch a movie called Come Fly With Me. Its about the GOAT of course. My highschool coach put me on this when I was in highschool. He told me nobody can ever really fully grasp basketball until you have seen it.
 8 years ago '09        #138
TERRANCE CRACK 48 heat pts48
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once lebron starts collecting rings(which is any time now) he will be the goat. hes prolly gonna finsh wth 5 or 6 and 4 or 5 mvps. and when he retires he will have passed kareem on all time scoring
 03-03-2010, 02:08 AM         #139
antdog 
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I would be tempted to put him over Bird, but 3 Reg season MVP's is huge. Bird 3/5 in the Finals and Kobe would be 5/7 with a 3peat and 2peat.It's close imo.

6Bird
7Kobe
8Shaq
9Duncan
10Hakeem
 8 years ago '08        #140
Main Event 55 heat pts55
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1 more ring still wouldnt put him over Shaq
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