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 8 years ago '04        #41
kc10785 
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the ending of this movie can be taking 2 different ways
 8 years ago '04        #42
Lyrical927 
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 JeeQ said:
A lot of people are asking about the ending, so this is your warning, many spoilers ahead.

***MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD***MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD***MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD***


They let us know Leo has recovered fully when Dr.Sheehan calls out for him by the name "Teddy" and Leo doesn't respond to it. He's come to grips with the fact he is Andrew but he still can't live with the fact he allowed his wife to murder his children, and then murdered his wife. So he opts to get lobotomized and start with a clean slate.

For the crowd that's arguing that Leo really wasn't crazy and was brainwashed into thinking he was, there's quite a few scenes that dispute that, starting right at the beginning of the film.
====================

The very first scene of the film shows Leo throwing up because "water makes him sick but he has no idea why". Water makes him sick because he pulled his three dead children out of a pond. Because of this he has multiple water based hallucinations throughout the film (the dripping water from the ceiling, the lady who asks for a glass of water and then pretends to drink it, he thinks he see's Chuck's dead body floating in the ocean, just like his dead children)/ Water is a central theme throughout the movie.

At the beginning of the film, Leo says that he's just now meeting his partner. Are you telling me the first time you'd meet your partner is on a ferry in the middle of the ocean? A ferry that happens to be completely controlled by the institution.

Why send in two US Marshals to find one escaped patient on an isolated island when we clearly see they have tons of guards stationed there.

Leo remarks that the guards look on edge. They're on edge because they know Leo is insane and violent.

Chuck/Dr.Sheehan can't figure out how to get his gun out of the holster. If he was really a US Marshal, you'd think he'd be able to do something as simple as pulling a gun out of a holster.

When interrogating the man who claims any woman who'd k!ll her own kids is sick, Leo freaks out and starts scribbling, knowing how much it would anger the man. Taking to the defense of the woman who k!lled her kids, we learn later that woman is his wife. Also in his anger he tells the patient of his crime, how would he know this if the patient files were never released to him? Because they are all members in the same group therapy sessions.

When interrogating the woman who asked for the glass of water, he mentions the name Andrew and she freaks out, saying she's never heard of anyone by that name. She's scared because she knows he's Andrew, and the last person that told him he was Andrew was George Noyce, who was then beaten down by Leo.

In his first dream sequence with his dead wife which was triggered by the leaking water from the ceiling. He imagines her burning up in ashes but when he hugs her she starts bleeding from her chest. This is the wound she received when Leo shot her in the chest, it's his dream scenario and reality blending.

The fake Rachel who turns out to be a nurse in the institution purposely tries to incite Leo into breaking out of his delusion. He hugs her and tells her everything is going to be OK.

They conveniently discard his US Marshal clothing and give him hospital clothing

Chuck/Dr.Sheehan tries to show Leo the patient intake form for Patient 67 but Leo vehemently refuses to look at the paper. He knows the truth is on that form but to protect his dream scenario he refuses to look at it, "great defense mechanisms"

When Leo first sees the Warden he already recognizes him, and calls him a prick. The orderly remarks "now that I'll agree with".

Noyce tells Leo that he gave him those scars and bruises. This coincides with Dr.Cawley telling Leo that he was involved in a brawl with Noyce just last week. Starting from the beginning of the movie, Leo has a band-aid on his head, presumably received from his scuffle with Noyce.

When he first fires the gun at Dr.Cawley he sees imaginary blood splatter and hears imaginary gunshots. This sets into motion the reality of his situation finally settling in. His dream scenario is crashing down upon him.

If anyone has any more examples throw them up, this movie camouflaged a lot of hints.


dawg you broke it down to the tee!!!
 8 years ago '04        #43
Franchise08 69 heat pts69
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waited so long for it...and although it was a good movie the plot was very predictable through all the ads....everyone know in the end he was that last patient and he was the crazy one. Too many plots like that lately..s**ts getting repetitive...could have been so much better if he was actual not crazy and something twisted was going on...but nope another Secret Window without jonny depp...7/10..had so much potential
 02-21-2010, 04:50 AM         #44
Kon Vert 
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^^^ f**k man, you could have put a spoiler warning in your post like the rest. f**king hate it when people don't do that
 02-21-2010, 08:17 AM         #45
smokeweed101. 
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 123456 said:
Somewhat a spoiler:

The ending could be taken another way....there's huge discussions all over the internet that debate over this. I see this movie as a type of movie that let's the viewer decide how he wants it to end (which is stupid but still a good movie)
I have read some of these debates and the arguments are weak to me, I haven't seen enough to support the fact that it was possible, especially when unlike you I saw it as a pretty much in your face easy to understand ending.

Of course people will always debate on these things but I can't see how the movie supports the "other conclusion".
 02-21-2010, 08:22 AM         #46
smokeweed101. 
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 JeeQ said:
A lot of people are asking about the ending, so this is your warning, many spoilers ahead.

***MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD***MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD***MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD***


They let us know Leo has recovered fully when Dr.Sheehan calls out for him by the name "Teddy" and Leo doesn't respond to it. He's come to grips with the fact he is Andrew but he still can't live with the fact he allowed his wife to murder his children, and then murdered his wife. So he opts to get lobotomized and start with a clean slate.

For the crowd that's arguing that Leo really wasn't crazy and was brainwashed into thinking he was, there's quite a few scenes that dispute that, starting right at the beginning of the film.
====================

The very first scene of the film shows Leo throwing up because "water makes him sick but he has no idea why". Water makes him sick because he pulled his three dead children out of a pond. Because of this he has multiple water based hallucinations throughout the film (the dripping water from the ceiling, the lady who asks for a glass of water and then pretends to drink it, he thinks he see's Chuck's dead body floating in the ocean, just like his dead children)/ Water is a central theme throughout the movie.

At the beginning of the film, Leo says that he's just now meeting his partner. Are you telling me the first time you'd meet your partner is on a ferry in the middle of the ocean? A ferry that happens to be completely controlled by the institution.

Why send in two US Marshals to find one escaped patient on an isolated island when we clearly see they have tons of guards stationed there.

Leo remarks that the guards look on edge. They're on edge because they know Leo is insane and violent.

Chuck/Dr.Sheehan can't figure out how to get his gun out of the holster. If he was really a US Marshal, you'd think he'd be able to do something as simple as pulling a gun out of a holster.

When interrogating the man who claims any woman who'd k!ll her own kids is sick, Leo freaks out and starts scribbling, knowing how much it would anger the man. Taking to the defense of the woman who k!lled her kids, we learn later that woman is his wife. Also in his anger he tells the patient of his crime, how would he know this if the patient files were never released to him? Because they are all members in the same group therapy sessions.

When interrogating the woman who asked for the glass of water, he mentions the name Andrew and she freaks out, saying she's never heard of anyone by that name. She's scared because she knows he's Andrew, and the last person that told him he was Andrew was George Noyce, who was then beaten down by Leo.

In his first dream sequence with his dead wife which was triggered by the leaking water from the ceiling. He imagines her burning up in ashes but when he hugs her she starts bleeding from her chest. This is the wound she received when Leo shot her in the chest, it's his dream scenario and reality blending.

The fake Rachel who turns out to be a nurse in the institution purposely tries to incite Leo into breaking out of his delusion. He hugs her and tells her everything is going to be OK.

They conveniently discard his US Marshal clothing and give him hospital clothing

Chuck/Dr.Sheehan tries to show Leo the patient intake form for Patient 67 but Leo vehemently refuses to look at the paper. He knows the truth is on that form but to protect his dream scenario he refuses to look at it, "great defense mechanisms"

When Leo first sees the Warden he already recognizes him, and calls him a prick. The orderly remarks "now that I'll agree with".

Noyce tells Leo that he gave him those scars and bruises. This coincides with Dr.Cawley telling Leo that he was involved in a brawl with Noyce just last week. Starting from the beginning of the movie, Leo has a band-aid on his head, presumably received from his scuffle with Noyce.

When he first fires the gun at Dr.Cawley he sees imaginary blood splatter and hears imaginary gunshots. This sets into motion the reality of his situation finally settling in. His dream scenario is crashing down upon him.

If anyone has any more examples throw them up, this movie camouflaged a lot of hints.
Great explanation, don't forget the visual clues giving away the delusional state he was stuck in. The rock climb was near impossible and the clues where all there, anyone who is used to the genre should pick it up in the first hour or so.

People saying the ending sucks and not to watch it again are the same hyping avatar, I didn't enjoy the ending as much as I could have but this movie is levels above Avatar, Scorsese's directing is top notch nothing to be compared to a CGI wh0ore, and the levels of detail when showcasing the deteriorated mind of Andrew was great work from a genius. People need to watch this movie from the subconscious POV, the mind of a mad man and not their own clear outlook on how a movie should be filmed.
 02-21-2010, 08:26 AM         #47
smokeweed101. 
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 Franchise08 said:
waited so long for it...and although it was a good movie the plot was very predictable through all the ads....everyone know in the end he was that last patient and he was the crazy one. Too many plots like that lately..s**ts getting repetitive...could have been so much better if he was actual not crazy and something twisted was going on...but nope another Secret Window without jonny depp...7/10..had so much potential
Not even close to Secret Window, much better film. The direction is spot on and really stop looking for plot twists and just enjoy the ride. When you ignore the predictable ending and Leo's acting you get a good look at the human mind. I study psychology so for me this was a great experience, I don't see how anyone can hate on this and defend Pocahontas 3D.
 8 years ago '07        #48
Three 1 heat pts
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i'd be generous to give it a 6/10, was boring as f**k
 8 years ago '07        #49
dionedre3000 
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 smokeweed101. said:
He acknowledged the fact of k!lling his wife and being committed there, he accepted that fact but didn't want to live it. He continued his so called fantasy in order to be brought to the building, to be murdered or go through surgery not exactly sure right now. But the point was that he rather die as a "good man" (the cop Teddy Daniels) than to live as a "monster" (The crazy murderer Andrew Laeddis)

He was delusional and in denial while still being in touch with reality. This was pretty apparent to me and was the one side of humanity in a mentally scarred character, the man wasn't a cold blooded murderer but was treated as such, you can even say he wasn't dangerous just delusional.
This is pretty much what I thought. Another thing that got me was
[spoiler - click to view]

 8 years ago '04        #50
kc10785 
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 JeeQ said:
A lot of people are asking about the ending, so this is your warning, many spoilers ahead.

***MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD***MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD***MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD***


They let us know Leo has recovered fully when Dr.Sheehan calls out for him by the name "Teddy" and Leo doesn't respond to it. He's come to grips with the fact he is Andrew but he still can't live with the fact he allowed his wife to murder his children, and then murdered his wife. So he opts to get lobotomized and start with a clean slate.

For the crowd that's arguing that Leo really wasn't crazy and was brainwashed into thinking he was, there's quite a few scenes that dispute that, starting right at the beginning of the film.
====================

The very first scene of the film shows Leo throwing up because "water makes him sick but he has no idea why". Water makes him sick because he pulled his three dead children out of a pond. Because of this he has multiple water based hallucinations throughout the film (the dripping water from the ceiling, the lady who asks for a glass of water and then pretends to drink it, he thinks he see's Chuck's dead body floating in the ocean, just like his dead children)/ Water is a central theme throughout the movie.

At the beginning of the film, Leo says that he's just now meeting his partner. Are you telling me the first time you'd meet your partner is on a ferry in the middle of the ocean? A ferry that happens to be completely controlled by the institution.

Why send in two US Marshals to find one escaped patient on an isolated island when we clearly see they have tons of guards stationed there.

Leo remarks that the guards look on edge. They're on edge because they know Leo is insane and violent.

Chuck/Dr.Sheehan can't figure out how to get his gun out of the holster. If he was really a US Marshal, you'd think he'd be able to do something as simple as pulling a gun out of a holster.

When interrogating the man who claims any woman who'd k!ll her own kids is sick, Leo freaks out and starts scribbling, knowing how much it would anger the man. Taking to the defense of the woman who k!lled her kids, we learn later that woman is his wife. Also in his anger he tells the patient of his crime, how would he know this if the patient files were never released to him? Because they are all members in the same group therapy sessions.

When interrogating the woman who asked for the glass of water, he mentions the name Andrew and she freaks out, saying she's never heard of anyone by that name. She's scared because she knows he's Andrew, and the last person that told him he was Andrew was George Noyce, who was then beaten down by Leo.

In his first dream sequence with his dead wife which was triggered by the leaking water from the ceiling. He imagines her burning up in ashes but when he hugs her she starts bleeding from her chest. This is the wound she received when Leo shot her in the chest, it's his dream scenario and reality blending.

The fake Rachel who turns out to be a nurse in the institution purposely tries to incite Leo into breaking out of his delusion. He hugs her and tells her everything is going to be OK.

They conveniently discard his US Marshal clothing and give him hospital clothing

Chuck/Dr.Sheehan tries to show Leo the patient intake form for Patient 67 but Leo vehemently refuses to look at the paper. He knows the truth is on that form but to protect his dream scenario he refuses to look at it, "great defense mechanisms"

When Leo first sees the Warden he already recognizes him, and calls him a prick. The orderly remarks "now that I'll agree with".

Noyce tells Leo that he gave him those scars and bruises. This coincides with Dr.Cawley telling Leo that he was involved in a brawl with Noyce just last week. Starting from the beginning of the movie, Leo has a band-aid on his head, presumably received from his scuffle with Noyce.

When he first fires the gun at Dr.Cawley he sees imaginary blood splatter and hears imaginary gunshots. This sets into motion the reality of his situation finally settling in. His dream scenario is crashing down upon him.

If anyone has any more examples throw them up, this movie camouflaged a lot of hints.

all i got to say is good s**t
 8 years ago '04        #51
badboy600 15 heat pts15
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boring a.ss movie
 8 years ago '07        #52
MOTTAFOOKAH 4 heat pts
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Good movie with a good twist at the end if you could stay awake long enough to see it... Some arts were boring as hell
 8 years ago '07        #53
1LynguisticMind 177 heat pts177 OP
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This movie was crack

The Goats: Pacino, Deniro, Denzel, Nicholsan, Depp

The will be Goat:



















LEO
 8 years ago '06        #54
Yung Dilla 1479 heat pts1479
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Yeah at first i didn't understand the ending but i went and saw it again and studied it.


At the end when he started to listen to the doctors he remembered exactly what happened and who he was, he even ignored the doctor when he called him 'teddy' then he awoke in bed and told them everything that happened and why he didn't want to remember. When he was sitting on the steps talking to 'chuck' he gave him a look like he didn't want to live/remember his life the way it was but as the hero/cop And that's when he went back to the teddy character and said they think we're stupid chuck but we'll get outta here.

(i read that as i know whats going on i don't wanna live like this let me get put out my misery. operation/death) chuck then asked him about the situation and 'teddy' gave him a false answer to make it seem like he was bugging again. 'chuck' gave them the look that he snapped back into his delusional state and now he has to get the surgery or death. when walking away 'teddy' had a look of satisfaction on his face like it's what he wanted.
 02-21-2010, 11:58 PM         #55
Lot 
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Beautiful Mind and Memento put together, loved the movie by the way. The Dream sequence of his wife burning up and the blood running up her body is all I need in order to know that he was delusional and not brainwashed.
 8 years ago '04        #56
CTre 22 heat pts22
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One of the best movies ever
 8 years ago '04        #57
JFamis 235 heat pts235
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 Dtown said:
yeah it was cool but i think the ending should have been different it should've ended with them really brainwashing him but 8/10
Through the whole ending I wanted that, but then in the very last shots when he goes to get that labotomy, I thought the ending was perfect.
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 8 years ago '07        #58
Bleezy 10 heat pts10
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I loved the ending.
 8 years ago '05        #59
BurninLz 31 heat pts31
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people who didnt like the movie arent thinking enough about it..


The scene that cements the proof that Leo is in fact crazy is in his dream when he walks up and meets Laedis with a scar on his face. Andrew calls Teddy his "Buddy" multiple times, and the moment when he lights the match to light 'Teddys' cig signifies both personalities as one, bad and evil. The evil even pulls out a flask and says "for later. Cuz i know how much you NEED it"
 8 years ago '04        #60
VickVega 1 heat pts
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Movie was ILL. Mentally Ill. Thought it was good but I want to see it again with the new perspective. It really created a good sense of what being "Crazy" is like, I couldnt make up my mind for most of the movie if the doctors were evil or if he was nuts.
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