LOST: The Final Season Discussion Thread

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 8 years ago '05        #541
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 A.O.™ said:
Here we go.. Locke met the white smoke when he was going in the forest to get the boar... I forgot who was wit him, and then the white smoke came and it was real bright.. They thought Locke was dead and then later that episode he came back with the Boar.. Michael asked him about what he saw and Locke lied.

Then later in the same season Locke was in the jungle with Kate and Jack, and the black smoke came, and it dragged Locke down the hole, Kate and Jack threw the bomb in the hole...

Maybe the smoke wasnt white, maybe it was just how they showed it... But I guess Locke talked to the smoke and thats when he came back with no intention to leave the island..

Maybe its irrelevant... but i remember that.
That was to long ago for it to be fresh in my mind so I cannot comment on it.

But, i'm interested to see what kind of replies you get.
 02-14-2010, 09:23 PM         #542
AbsLikeJesus 
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I know what you're talking about:

It was the black smoke monster BUT when it went up to Locke, it gave him repeated flashes. Flashes literally like a photo camera. So much that when they showed Locke's scared face, you could see a bright light againts him that made it appear as if it was white. Thus, when Locke asked Eko what he say, he told Eko that what he saw was beautiful, a bright, white light. Eko responded with "What I saw was not beautiful" and explained how it was black with no white flashes. Similar flashes could be seen when Kate was with with Charlie in the second episode getting chased by the smoke monster; they hid in the trees and it showed first person view of the smoke monster and showed how it gave off white flashes.

BUT, it is the same smoke monster, it is just another aspect of it that is a mystery to us that will be answered this season. IMO, that is how it reads the people it attacks and determines if they are useful or worthy of living.
 8 years ago '05        #543
Wasted|M 26 heat pts26
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I think all those flashes and whispers we hear from smokey are people's soul's he claimed.


 KarteL13 said:
If that's the case, then Sayid shouldn't of remembered Jack or anyone. When Richard took Ben to heal himself, he stated that Ben won't remember any of it. Which is why Ben didn't first recognize Sayid when Sayid was torturing him.

Same with Claire.

 RamazedAGAIN said:
that's what i was thinking. christian, i can say i'm almost certain he was claimed by jacob. claire however, i'm not so sure about if dogen said she had a 'darkness' in her that spread, sounded pretty negative to me. then again, if they need to do tests on these 'claimed' individuals, then who claimed her is still sort of an open case

strange. really liking the guy playing the role of dogen though

It's a hard one you can say Christian is claimed by MIB because we saw him with Claire at the cabin. Claire to me is evil. She has been infected. There is no way Claire can survive on her own for 3 years in the jungle. But she looks like she became the French women and has managed to survive for 3 years.

 KarteL13 said:
Dogen frustrates me. First he needs a translator now he doesn't. He hates American Lingo but its pretty apparent that he will be speaking English a lot of the time. Now we need his history as it appears he's a main dude, yet he's never been brought up in prior episodes.

And that's the jist of things that's frustrating me this season. Wouldn't mind if it happened last season or a couple of seasons before, but this is the final season. Like the last round of an epic boxing match but instead of the boxers duking it out, they're running away from each other or getting a feel for each other like its the first round.

And the flash sideways is becoming a waste of time, IMO. But I do hope I end up eating my words and them Flash Sideways are actually meaningful.

Dogen said to Jack that he was "brought here" = BlackRock. That's what I think

The Flash-Sideways is not a waste of time. Like I said previously it is Season 7 so we are getting an extra season in one go.
 8 years ago '09        #544
Ricky Towel 128 heat pts128
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this was written by someone over on a giants forum i frequent:


Note: This is very long and written over time. Rest a.ssured I haven't fully lost my mind yet. I do not proclaim to be a "know it all", these are my personal thoughts/opinions. I love the show and enjoy trying to break it down. I look forward to being proven wrong on everything! Makes the show even more fun.

Hi all,

No reason to recap the entire episodes. Here's a few bullet points on what is going on right now.

* Remember Hurley and Miles conversation last season about Time Travel? Miles argued that "Whatever Happened, Happened" and Hurley argued "That they could alter events", according to what we are seeing: both are right.

The universe we have always known (seasons 1 -5) I'll refer to as the WHH universe... Whatever Happened, Happened. They always crashed, Desmond always failed to hit the button, the Freighter always came, the 6 always left, the rest always time traveled, etc. It was their present while being in the Island's past. When Jacob died and said "They're coming" he was referring to those in 1977 being flashed to 2007 where Richard, Ben, Sun etc. were at the foot of the statue. We see that the hatch had been built and "WHH". This is the universe we have always watched. This is 1 thing that happened at the bomb site. The other is...

Juliet activated the bomb and the plan worked. They wiped out all that energy. The island submerged to the bottom of the ocean. Sometime in the late 70's I suppose. There was enough time for people like Ethan and probably Ben and his Dad to evacuate the island with the rest of Dharma. So none of these people grew up to be "Others." This is the Hurley arguement: "The reset universe." Imagine time as a straight line. That line is continuing and that is the WHH universe that we know. This reset universe is a fork in the road created by the bomb working. So in this universe they never crash, the island no longer exists. Yet somehow fate is bringing them together. Jack has a cut on his neck similar to when he crashed, Kate and Claire are still tied to each other, Jack and John, Ethan/Claire, etc. We'll continue to see this all season long. Notice when we cut to these "flash sideways" we no longer have the flashback "woosh" sound. It's been replaced with the sound of the time flashes. Because this universe is very much real. It's not an alternate, it's a parallel. These versions of the characters are very much real. Why should we care about this universe? We have no investment in this version of the characters? I believe we will see down the road somehow these 2 universes will "bleed" into each other. How? That's the million dollar question. These deja vu moments the characters are having with each other are certainly hints.

Maybe it's Jacob's touch? I wrote prior to the season premiere that I thought we would get a new universe. But that the twist would be that this "new" universe is the original. That they never did crash ever. That Jacob going back and touching specfic people altered their lives and brought them to the island. So I proposed that everything we saw season 1 -5 was the universe that was changed. This universe we are seeing now, while being presented as new is actually the original. This is still a possibility but I am starting to doubt it. We know Jacob brings everyone to the island so it's very well possible. He believes there is only 1 end, and everything before that is progress. This would make sense with everyone has brought to the island: Army = bomb, dharma = hatches, etc. Each of these groups did something specific that ended up playing a role in where we are now. What makes the Oceanic survivors so important is because they are the "final" pieces in this game between Jacob and the Man in Black.

*Juliet saying "It worked" via Miles was in reference to the parallel universe. The dead can cross over. Think back to when "dead" Charlie visited Hurley. He told him "I am dead, but I'm also here."

Answers revealed in these episodes

They are answering questions! They are not going to beat answers over are head! We will have to fill in some blanks based off info we are given. The Man in Black/Evil Locke = the Smoke Monster this is a huge reveal! If you go back and watch the series, every action of the smoke monster can be seen in a different light.

The "Sickness" that Rousseau's husband and team experienced is finally revealed. It's different then the sickness that people expierenced when traveling to and from the island on the wrong bearing. The sickness = man in black claiming the dead. This explains why Claire was in the cabin. I believe the murky water is what k!lled Sayid. The Man In Black made the water change color, this is what led to Sayid's death. Then Sayid woke up in an undead state while in the process of being claimed. This also explains what the Others did to revive young Ben after Sayid shot him. Only the water was clear then. This also explains why the Others are so careful with their dead. They had sent the body of an other named Colleen to sea and burned her body. This was so the Man in Black can't take it over. Remeber last year when Richard visited the Others and demanded Ethan's mom Amy's 1st husband's body since two of his men died? This was because they wanted to dispose of the body properly. This also could explain why Christian Shephard's body was not in the coffin. Since he was dead the man in black claimed him and guided him to the cabin.

It's pretty clear as well that the whispers = the others. Hopefully more will get explained on this.

Random thoughts.

No reason to hate these new others. We have known since the end of season 3 that there was a temple on the island. Ben told Richard to bring everyone there as it was the only safe place from the freighter people who would soon be showing up. Last year Richard told Fake Locke that there was a group of thers at the temple. So it's not like they just sprung this group up on us. I imagine "Dogen" is upper management and doesn't deal with the day to day things. He just is in charge of the temple and is probably much more educated about the history of things then Ben, etc.

There is a war coming: Team Jacob, Team Man in Black. Each will recruit their players. There's some sort of "rules" in place. We will hopefully learn more about them. We already know that Jacob and The Man in Black can't physically k!ll the other, I believe this is part of their laws. Perhaps when Richard visited young Locke and gave him the test with the different items, that the laws that they must abide by are in the book titled: "the book of laws." This was one of the items Richard presented him. Just a thought.

I also believe Widmore is alligned with the man in black. That's why he told John Locke that a war was coming, and in order for the right side to win he had to be back on the island. What he didn't tell John was for the "right" side to win, John had to be back but he had to be back dead. I believe Widmore is also the person who kicked some of the ash out of the cabin back in the day. Man in Black has now been coming and going from the cabin as he pleases. I believe Widmore ordered the purge of Dharma. Eloise was gone from the island at this point. I believe Widmore made sure none of the dharma folk were properly buried, but instead placed in a pit. He did this so the MIB could have acces to them. That's how the MIB as Horace Goodspeed visited John in a dream and told him how to find a cabin.

I guess the Man in Black has somehow been a prisoner on the island, forced to play this game with Jacob. Will be interesting to see where this goes.

Speaking of prisoners: I think the man in black's line to Richard about seeing him out of those chains has a double meaning: He was on the black rock ship. He is "free" of having to take orders from Jacob. Richard and Man in Black certainly have a history. Dating back to that day that we saw last year when Jacob guided the Black Rock to the island.

"Aldo" the other who was k!lled by Claire and is Charlie on the show" It's Always Sunny..." was in a season 3 episode. That whole line to Kate about the prisoner trick was a reference to when her and Sawyer knocked him out to go into Room 23 on the smaller island to help Karl, Alex's boyfriend, escape.

Still banking on Rose and Bernard being "Adam and Eve" skeltons.

Personal Thoughts

I'm being patient with the parallel universe because I feel we'll get a great payoff for how both universe's play into each other. I still hope the real locke comes back to life. I think the parallel universe story will climax with Jack fixing John. I am sticking to my guns that the real John Locke is "What Lies in the Shadow of the Statue." And that Walt's dream about John being back on the island in a suit with people around him wanting to hurt will still be seen. I believe the only person who will believe that it's the real John Locke - will be Jack. I still think that when John first saw the monster, he saw a different monster: Jacob as a bright light. Remember John told Eko he saw a bright light. We'll see. In the end I think John, who we were duped into believing was special. Will be seen as the most special of all: by being the first to come back from the dead. I think that's why we keep being reminded that when you die, you can't come back. So we won't see this coming.

The Loophole

Couple of people asked me to breakdown the Man In Black's Loophole on how to k!ll Jacob here it is.

He gave Ben cancer. This made Ben start to question Jacob and why he would become ill.

When John and Ben go to the cabin The Man In Black appears to only John and says "Help Me." He does this so Ben gets further jealous that John has a direct communication with Jacob and he doesn't.

When John later goes to the cabin Christian/Claire ( both claimed by the MIB) tells him he has to move the island. The MIB makes sure not to tell John how to move it. This is done on purpose. Because he knows John will go to Ben who will then move the island thinking Jacob wants him exiled. Now Ben is in the "real" world and is clueless on what to do. Since the Island has been the only home he ever really knew.

The flashes start to happen. Each is done with a specific reason to confuse John. In the first flash he goes from 2004 - 2007 where Richard tells him he has to die to save everyone. Who told Richard this? The MIB disguised as John. This is a paradox: Just like the compass, daniel's journal, Ethan (Ethan helped bring Juliet to the island, Juliet later in her present, goes to the past and makes sure baby Ethan is born safely), etc.

John then goes to 1954 and tells Richard to visit him after he is born. He does. The MIB has now tricked Richard into thinking John is special. John eventually thinks he can stop the flashes from happening if they go to the orchid station. He goes and he falls down the well when another flash comes.

Side note: Sawyer holds onto the rope when this flash comes. Daniel said that anything they hold onto seems to travel in time with them. So Sawyer brought the rope with him to a past time when the statue was still up. This rope now stays in this time. Sawyer has most likely led to the wheel and time travel being discovered. Egyptians or some early natives will discover this rope in the ground and dig down and find the wheel and eventually build the well. This is all because Sawyer held onto the rope and it flashed with him. This is another example of a paradox.

Back to the Loophole: John has fallen down to where the wheel is. Christian Shephard (claimed by man in black) tells John that he was SUPPOSE to turn the wheel. He really knew John would go to Ben, which is why he didn't tell him how to move it in the cabin. The MIB wanted Ben off the island so he can k!ll John. So now Christian tells John to save everyone he must turn the wheel. He also makes sure to tell John information on how to get back once he has everyone: see Daniel Faraday's mother and the former leader of the others- Eloise Hawking. John agrees knowing he will die and accepts this fate to save the island/everyone. The flashes stop. Sawyer and company are now in 1974 and will be there for 3 more years. The wheel turn flashes John to the Tunisia desert in 2007.

Ben eventually finds out that John is back. He stops John from k!lling himself because John has information he needs. Once he finds out he needs to see Eloise Hawking to get back to the island he k!lls John. The MIB knew this would happen. Because he knows how jealous and how much of a threat Ben saw John as, since Richard and company felt he was special. Because in the cabin he thought Jacob communicated with John. Because the island healed John and it gave Ben cancer ,etc. So now John is dead and Ben organizes the troops. Eloise Hawking says that if not everyone is on board the Ajira 316 flight that the results could be "unpredictable." They are: Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid are flashed to 1977 to join Sawyer and company. Sun, Ben, Frank, etc land on the runway on the smaller island that the others had Kate and Sawyer work on. It's still 2007 for them. Jacob ordered the runway to be built.

John Locke's body has now come back to the island. The MIB now takes the disguise of John. He brings Ben to the monster (himself) to be judged. Normally he would most likely not let someone who broke the rules return to the island. But he needs Ben for his plan so he gets a pass. MIB now in smoke form becomes Alex and tells Ben he will listen to everything John Locke says or he will hunt him down. The MIB as John then tells Ben to come with him and Richard on an errand. That errand is for Richard to tell a time traveling John Locke that he has to bring everyone back and has to die to do so. Thus creating a paradox and ensuring that he will be able to take over John's body in 2007. He asked Ben to come with him on this errand so he could pretend that the island told John what to do. To further make Ben jealous that the island never told him anything. He reminds Ben that Jacob was the one who exiled him, allowed Alex to die, and gave him cancer. He of course actually did all this. But he says this to make Ben more angry and capable of k!lling Jacob for him. Jacob allows Ben to k!ll him, he wanted to die. It's part of his own loophole. He told the MIB on the beach that when he found his loophole he'd be right there waiting for him. He believes in humanity and I believe he thinks it will save it's self. As he dies he touches Ben, certainly worth noting. He also says "They're coming" - this is everyone in 1977 being flashed to 2007. Now the lines are being drawn for the upcoming war.

Namaste!
 02-15-2010, 03:00 PM         #545
WorldsStrangest 
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I'll be honest...


I liked the smoke monster angle when it made sense.

Like when it was supposed to be a gathering of the eletro-magnetic activity on the island. At worst, it just made people hallucinate, at best, it told visions of an untold future.



Now?



but ill wait until we can confirm 100% what "the smoke monster" really is......
 02-15-2010, 07:05 PM         #546
AbsLikeJesus 
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Agreed.

My absolute favourite aspect of LOST were the hallucinations and the preminitions that the characters experienced. We haven't seen any of them since season 4 though. I always loved when the characters saw dead characters and one second they are normal and in an instant they are all bloody to signal that they are dead.

My favourites are Charlie's hallucination when everything was kind of like a cartoon and religion like, then he woke up standing in the ocean holding Arron AMAZING. Everything else was amazing as well but this one has a perminent spot in my head.

I was hoping that there would be a sickness in the island but not by the smoke monster, maybe something when they went in the dark territory they would see others there that were zombie like. Also I liked the thought of it being a security system but like I stated before, the fact that it can pick up anyone at will and smash them to death is unbelievably stupid.
 8 years ago '05        #547
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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Its on tonight, fellas!
 8 years ago '04        #548
jae premier 
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sooooooooooooo pumped for tonights episode
 8 years ago '06        #549
modalee 5 heat pts
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Cannot f**king wait. Tonights ep has been rated as the third best episode from the first 10 eps of the season by people that have seen it.
 8 years ago '07        #550
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418 OP
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Jimmy Kimmel - "Lost is like that really hot girl in school. You don't get her, but you talk to all your nerdy friends about her on the internet."

That $H!T is so true, had me dying when I heard him say that...
 8 years ago '07        #551
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418 OP
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Smokey >>>
 8 years ago '07        #552
Just1Spark 
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Someone catch me up to speed on what happened before the first commercial break?

Flocke just opened up more questions
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 8 years ago '07        #553
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418 OP
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 Just1Spark said:
Someone catch me up to speed on what happened before the first commercial break?

Flocke just opened up more questions
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Lock in the flash-sideways coming home from Australia. Kind of sad scene.
 8 years ago '07        #554
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418 OP
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:wow: @ "don't tell me what I can't do..."
 8 years ago '07        #555
Eddie..|M 12 heat pts12
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DON'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN'T DO yo
 8 years ago '07        #556
Just1Spark 
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Thanks and wtf was that kid
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 8 years ago '04        #557
Propel Water 20 heat pts20
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 Just1Spark said:
Thanks and wtf was that kid
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it was aaron. and why is flocke quoting locke?
 8 years ago '09        #558
Ricky Towel 128 heat pts128
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 Propel Water said:
it was aaron. and why is flocke quoting locke?
how do you know?


or are you just guessing?
 8 years ago '09        #559
Ricky Towel 128 heat pts128
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i feel like sawyer "ive been watching this show waiting for answers and all i get are their names chalked onto a cave wall?!"
 8 years ago '07        #560
Just1Spark 
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Now we know where Jacob got his list.
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