LOST: The Final Season Discussion Thread

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 8 years ago '05        #301
jay964 12 heat pts12
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 myxover said:
you f**king serious with this s**t? real original calling any asian jackie chan. surprised there was no ecko for the obligatory black man to be k!lled a**hole. dudes japanese to answer ur ignorant question.
calm down f**got, two reasons i refered to him as jackie chan
1. obviously hes asian
2. he knew some karate s**t

but
it aint that serious u salty v*gina
 8 years ago '05        #302
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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Warning, SPOILERS ahead. If you haven’t seen the season premiere of Lost yet, you might not want to continue past the jump yet. Lost fans who have now seen the premiere can read ahead for some explanation from Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof. (Comments are likely to be full of spoilers also, you’ve been warned again.)

Once upon a time in Germany, a very smart and spiritual man tried to answer a very tricky and troubling question. In a world created by an allegedly benevolent and omnipotent God, why the heck is there suffering and evil? In the world of philosophy, this field of inquiry is called Theodicy, generally defined as an attempt to understand and justify the behavior of God. The genius German dude thought long and hard about this “problem of evil” question and came up with an answer that was unusually heady for the time. He said that despite the existence of evil, this world is actually “the best of all possible worlds,” as if our universe is the least offensive of countless alternatives, or even a pastiche comprised of pieces from the best parts of all. Wild.

Over the next 300 years, physicists, philosophers, and science fiction writers have blown out Gottfried Leibniz’s “possible worlds” concept in many different radical, challenging directions to serve all sorts of scientific and intellectual purposes, their various nuanced permutations producing a slough of different, seemingly synonymous yet not necessarily equal terms. Parallel worlds. Many worlds. Alternate realities. Mirror realities. Modal realities. Pocket universes. Bubble universes. And my favorite, “Island universes,” because it reminds me of a TV show I’m supposedly writing about, one that has referenced perhaps the foremost philosopher in this field, David Lewis.

Today, there are eggheads who believe that these “island universes” or whatnot are real — that they exist somewhere, as real and concrete as “our world,” inhabited by variations of ourselves. Naturally, this a.ssertion has invited intense debate. Where are these worlds? Can we find them? If so, can we access them? Communicate with them? Visit them? Is there one “official world” and all the others of deviations? Did all these worlds pop into being at the same time, or do we continually create new worlds with every choice and non-choice? If so, do the other versions of you that exist across the multiverse of worlds create new worlds with their choices and non-choices, too? And who are these other “yous,” anyway? Are you separate, unique individuals? Do you share consciousness and/or a soul? Are you and your other yous destined to reach similar fates, played out through different events or circumstances? Are you and your other yous unique entities with unique destinies? Yes? No? Who knows? What does any of this Fringe-sounding s— have anything to do with Lost?!?!

Maybe everything. Maybe… nothing! Maybe something somewhere in the middle. What’s definitely for certain is this: If you’ve seen the season premiere of Lost (final SPOILER ALERT now!), you now know the hush-hush new storytelling device for the final season is this whole notion of parallel worlds. We were presented with two of them: one in which Oceanic 815 never crashed; and another that keeps continuity with the past five years of Lost having all the characters trapped in the Dharma Initiative past magically uploaded to the Island present of 2007 where the Jacob-Fake Locke-Ben drama is all going down. I’ll have a lot more to say on this tomorrow AM in my recap. But before then, I bring you news from two guys who you probably MOST want to hear from right now: Lost exec producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof. My “Totally Lost” partner Dan Snierson and I sat down with them to talk about the year’s”flash-sideways” storytelling device. Jokes Damon Lindelof: “You [had] all these fundamental mysteries going into season 6. What’s the Monster? What’s the Island? Why is Richard Alpert not able to age? But here’s this new mystery. How dare they! How dare they present us with a new mystery at this late stage in the game!”

Fortunately, here are the producers to offer some a.ssurance of answers and provide some helpful context for season 6.

EW: The whole idea of flash-sideways and the plan to use season 6 to show us a world where Oceanic 815 never crashed — how long has that been in the works? Why did you want to do it?
DAMON LINDELOF: It’s been in play for at least a couple of years. We knew that the ending of the time travel season was going to be an attempt to reboot. And as a result, we [knew] the audience was going to come out of the “do-over moment” thinking we were either going start over or just say it didn’t work and continue on. [We thought] wouldn’t it be great if we did both? That was the origin of the story.
CARLTON CUSE: We thought just doing one [of those options] would inherently not be satisfying. Since the very beginning of the show, characters started crossing through each other’s stories. Part of our desire [in season 6] is to show that there’s still this kind of weave, that these characters still would have impacted each other’s lives even without the event of crashing on the Island. Obviously, the big question of the season is going to be: How do these [two timelines] reconcile? However, for the fans who have not watched the show closely, that’s an intact narrative. You can just watch the flash sideways — they stand alone all by themselves. For the fans who are more deeply embedded in the show, you can watch those flash sideways, compare them to what transpired in the flashbacks and go, “Oh, that’s an interesting difference.”
LINDELOF: Right out of the gate, in the first five minutes of the premiere, you get hit over the head with two things that you’re not expecting. The first is that Desmond is on the plane. The second thing that we do is we drop out of the plane and we go below the water and we see that the Island is submerged. What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.” Some of these characters were still in Australia, but some weren’t. Shannon’s not there. Boone actually says that he tried to get her back. There are all sorts of other people that we don’t see. Where’s Libby? Where’s Ana Lucia? Where’s Eko? These are all the things that you’re supposed to be thinking about. When our characters posited the “What if?” scenario, they neglected to think about what the other effects of potentially changing time might be and we’re embracing those things.

That said, are you saying definitively that detonating Jughead was the event that created this new timeline? Or is that a mystery which the season 6 story will reveal?
LINDELOF: It’s a mystery. A big one.
CUSE: We did have some concern that it might be confusing kind of going into the season. To clear that up a little bit: The archetypes of the characters are the same and that’s the most significant thing. Kate is still a fugitive. If you were to look at the Comic-Con video, for instance, that now comes into play. There was a different scenario in that story. She basically blew up an apprentice plumber as opposed to k!lling her biological father/stepfather. Those kind of differences exist, but who the characters fundamentally are is the same. If it becomes too confusing for you, you can just follow the flash sideways for what they are. It’s not as though there’s narrative that hangs on the fact that you need to know that this event was different in that world, in the flashback world versus the sideways world. That’s not critical for being able to process the narrative this season.

Is there a relationship between Island reality and sideways reality? Will they run parallel for the remainder of the season? Will they fuse together? Might one fade away?
LINDELOF: For us, the big risk that we’re taking in the final season of the show is basically this very question. [Lindelof then explains the show has replaced the trademark “whoosh!” sound effect marking the segue between Island present story and flashbacks or flash-forwards, thus calling conspicuous attention to the relationship between the Island world and the Sideways world.] This is the critical mystery of the season, which is, “What is the relationship between these two shows?” And we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.
CUSE: But the questions you’re asking are exactly the right questions. What are we to make of the fact that they’re showing us two different timelines? Are they going to resolve? Are they going to connect? Are they going to co-exist in parallel fashion? Are they going to cross? Do they intersect? Does one prove to be viable and the other one not? I think those are all the kind of speculations that are the right speculations to be having at this point in the season.
LINDELOF: But it is going to require patience. We’ve taught the audience how to be patient thus far, so while they’re getting a lot of mythological answers on the island early in the season, this idea of what is the relationship between the two [worlds] is a little bit more of a slow burn.

Did Jughead really sink the Island? And is it possible that the Sideways characters are now caught in a time loop in which they might have to go back in time and fulfill the obligation to continuity by detonating the bomb?
LINDELOF: These questions will be dealt with on the show. Should you infer that the detonation of Jughead is what sunk the island? Who knows? But there’s the Foot. What do you get when you see that shot? It looks like New Otherton got built. These little clues [might help you] extrapolate when the Island may have sunk. Start to think about it. A couple of episodes down the road, some of the characters might even discuss it. We will say this: season 6 is not about time travel. It’s about the implications, the aftermath, and the causality of trying to change the past. But the idea of continuing to do paradoxical storytelling is not what we’re interested in this year.
 8 years ago '05        #303
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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Jack, you say you're tired of the producers pulling bunnies out of a hat. But you're forgetting the laws of nature! Bunnies can't help but reproduce exponentially. Once the first emerged—there's a polar bear on the island?—there was no way to make them disappear. The narrative gimmicks, fake deaths, and misdirections were all established as a part of this show's DNA in Season 1. To get mad at it now implies that you hadn't properly channeled your anger a few years ago. (And I know that's not usually a problem for you.) Last night's two-timeline structure just wasn't that major a cognitive leap. In fact, by juxtaposing the two narratives, the producers have created something very smart and typically meta. They know that the audience is wondering whether the last five seasons actually amount to anything, whether any of it was really worth it. Now the characters are confronting the same question.

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CLOSEBouncing between the two narratives also allows the show to answer one of its central questions: Is it better to control your own destiny or to let fate decide it? In the reset timeline, half of the characters are worse off than they once were: Charlie is suicidal; Kate is homicidal; Sawyer is still a con man; Locke is still a crippled man; Sun and Jin are still unequal partners in a failing marriage. But then half actually seem better off: Boone is alive; Sayid is in love; Bernard and Rose are happy; Jack isn't an a.ss; Hurley is lucky.

(For those wondering why Hurley is now lucky, I think it's because he won the lottery without using The Numbers—4, 8, 15, 16, 24, 42. If the island is underwater, Rousseau can't broadcast the numbers in the distress signal. And if there's no distress signal, Sam Toomey never hears them on the radio one day. And if Sam doesn't hear them, he never tells Hurley's crazy friend Leonard about them. Which means Hurley never learns The Numbers.)


Do I think all of this two-timeline stuff makes sense? Not yet. But the writers have offered us a lot of clues. Last night, the most important piece of dialogue belonged to Juliet. While cuddling with Sawyer, Juliet says, "We should get coffee some time. We can go Dutch." It's apropos of nothing, and Sawyer thinks she's babbling. But later Juliet—through Miles—tells us, "It worked." The it, it's safe to a.ssume, was the bomb. Thus I come to my second TV Club theory of the new season: Juliet could only know "it worked" on the island if she was also off the island. Juliet was consciousness-hopping back and forth between the two realities. Just as our pal Desmond used to do.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Related on the Web
Become a fan of Slate on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter.But let's get to the mythology. Some tips:

Seth, as you wrote, inside Prince's mandolin was a piece of paper. That piece of paper, it's safe to say, is one of Jacob's famed lists. We've been told Jack wasn't on Jacob's original list when the flight went down—but he's on this one. So Jack wasn't useful to Jacob in the past but is now.
Smokey Locke (that's what I'm calling him) tells Richard that it's good to see him "out of those chains"—probably a reference to Richard time as a slave on the Black Rock. (The Black Rock, remember, was the slave ship that arrived in the first few minutes of last year's finale, and was then marooned in the middle of the island.) We know that Jacob brought the Black Rock to the island. Was it for Richard? Is Jacob running his own version of the Underground Railroad? Side benefits include eternal life, eyeliner, Banana Republic outfits.
Ash played a prominent role. The temple inhabitants spread ash when they hear that Jacob has died, and Bran tries to protect himself from Smokey Locke by drawing his own personal ash circle. At the end of this dispatch is a video explaining what it all might mean. It's the first in a weekly series connecting the dots between seasons past and season present.
There were all sorts of other fun shout-outs—at least for nut jobs like me. Just a few:

Jack tries to rescue Sayid, and Kate stops him. This set-up echoes Season 1, when Jack tries to save Charlie, and Kate tries to stop him.
Relatedly, when Jack saves Charlie in last night's episode, he sends people out to search for a pen, just as he did after the crash in the very first episode of the series.
Doc Arzt—the entomologist/high school teacher/dynamite expert from Season 1—was carrying an insect guide in his hand when he was on the plane.
But last night raised as many questions as it began to answer:

The biggest among them: Why isn't Shannon on the plane? The island is underwater, but that didn't stop anyone else from getting on the flight. (But it did stop Jack and Locke's baggage from getting onboard. Metaphor alert!)
Where is Jacob's corpse? I haven't been to Burning Man, but I'm pretty sure bodies don't just disappear when they're in a fire pit the size of a sundial.
When Jacob visits Hurley, why is he barefoot? Note that the other Others—the temple-dwelling ones—are barefoot, too.
Why is Jack's neck bleeding on that plane? Is that what nuclear hickies look like?
Oh, and, Seth, don't forget that we've seen Cindy, the flight attendant, once before. In Season 3, a less-psychedelic Cindy and some kids—the same Zak and Emma from last night, one would a.ssume—visit Jack when he's imprisoned in a cage. Jack asks why they're all there, staring at him. Cindy, rather creepily, says they're there "to watch."



Another note for Seth: You wonder whether someone has taken over Sayid's reincarnated body. Hell if I know. Jacob may have, I suppose. But, for your sake, I hope it's Juliet rattling around beneath that jheri curl.

And, yes, my predictions were … off the mark. So let's play double or nothing. Last night we saw Desmond on the plane with Jack. (Jack, by the way, probably recognizes him not from the island but from running up the stadium steps in Season 2.) But then Desmond disappears and we never see him get off the plane. Lost TV Club theory No. 3: That's because Desmond was never on the plane! That's not to say that Jack is Hurley: He can't see dead people and Desmond isn't dead. Desmond, I submit, doesn't just time-travel with his consciousness anymore. The man can now move his entire body.
 8 years ago '05        #304
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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BTW, those ARE NOT spoilers unless you have yet to watch the prmiere. Both very interesting articles my brother sent me on facebook.

This show is epic....
 8 years ago '06        #305
modalee 5 heat pts
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 MosDefinition said:
he isnt trying to get the island back he already said hes trying to get off the island
Home could mean anything he never said he was going off the island. I think he means that The Temple is his home which is why the others were preparing for his invasion with the ash and putting out the fire.
 8 years ago '04        #306
nitetrain8601 22 heat pts22
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 Wasted said:

No, Sayid is alive. The temple fixes things, much like it fixed young Ben.

However "the risk" I think the Genghis Khan looking dude is talking about is that Sayid will loose his innocent.

I bet you Sayid ends up k!lling Flock/smokey. As he IS the loophole now. Like Ben was the loophole that k!lled Jacob.

Jacob cannot be Sayid as we see there are 2 Lockes. One Locke Dead body and One Locke impersonator.

There is only 1 Sayid body and that woke up. So Sayid IS Sayid. He didn't die.





My take on it is Flocke wants to break the curse of him being on the island and f!ghting to be freed. He wants to go home, but in order for him to go home someone has to take his place.

He said at the beginning that this f!ght will go on and one, there is no point. And Jacob said something along the lines of what goes around is just progress.

I think there is going to be a new Jacob and a new Flock. I think its going to be Sawyer and Jack. Sawyer wants Jack to suffer for Juliet death and said he isn't going to k!ll him he wants him to stay on the rock (island)
I think you're a.ssuming that both Jacob and Flocke have the same powers. Maybe Jacob did take over Sayid's body. There's gotta be a reason why Jacob let Ben k!ll him so easily and it's not because he didn't think Ben wouldn't do it. Ben was itching to get at him.
 8 years ago '04        #307
goke11429 3 heat pts
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[video - click to view]


[video - click to view]



Last edited by goke11429; 02-03-2010 at 11:58 PM..
 8 years ago '04        #308
goke11429 3 heat pts
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Lost: The Complete Collection [Blu-ray] ..... $195.99 i think it's worth the price but i'll cop during 2010 holidays for a discounted price

[pic - click to view]


[pic - click to view]



Last edited by goke11429; 02-04-2010 at 01:39 AM..
 8 years ago '06        #309
modalee 5 heat pts
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Ya ill be buying that as well later this year
 8 years ago '05        #310
Wasted|M 26 heat pts26
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 nitetrain8601 said:
I think you're a.ssuming that both Jacob and Flocke have the same powers. Maybe Jacob did take over Sayid's body. There's gotta be a reason why Jacob let Ben k!ll him so easily and it's not because he didn't think Ben wouldn't do it. Ben was itching to get at him.

The ash thing is kinda weird tho.

Ilyna found his cabin ash to be broken. But if you go back to season one. We see Christian walking around the jungle and Ecko brother talking to Locke during the hatch thing.

This was before Hugo broke the ash at the cabin.

So either I don't get how the ash kept him in. It clearly didn't.


Plus also when Ben visited "Jacob" (we know now that is where Flocke leaves) in the cabin he said "he never seea "Jacob" just speaks to him" Well Why didn't Flocke tell Ben to remove the ash so he can be set free?
 8 years ago '04        #311
R-iZZy 13 heat pts13
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I think one thing that people aren't taking into account is Flocke isn't really using Locke's body, he's using his likeness. Locke's body was in that box that Brahm and his guys were carrying.

When Sayid woke up, we didn't see a likeness of him wake up, we saw his actual body that was lifeless come back to life.

It might be minor, but it's something to take into consideration.
 8 years ago '04        #312
ABSOLUTE STYLE 
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just go to ABC.com, they got all the full episodes from every season on there, I watch with a cord from my mac to my 52" samsung, quality is real good too.
 8 years ago '05        #313
Wasted|M 26 heat pts26
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Yeah true. It's like Flocke has his soul rather then his body.

The interesting thing is we didn't see Smoky change into Locke but rather Locke disappearing and then Flocke coming out from the tunnel. Its like there are two separate things. Almost like Flocke is controlling Lockes spirit or is somehow producing a hologram.
 8 years ago '04        #314
shookid 
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 Wasted said:

The ash thing is kinda weird tho.

Ilyna found his cabin ash to be broken. But if you go back to season one. We see Christian walking around the jungle and Ecko brother talking to Locke during the hatch thing.

This was before Hugo broke the ash at the cabin.

So either I don't get how the ash kept him in. It clearly didn't.


Plus also when Ben visited "Jacob" (we know now that is where Flocke leaves) in the cabin he said "he never seea "Jacob" just speaks to him" Well Why didn't Flocke tell Ben to remove the ash so he can be set free?
i think you may be confused. the ash is used to keep the monster away from Jacob in the scenes you mentioned. i think it will be interesting to see what the asian has to say to Jack as he was summoned right when Sayid woke up. I am sure he will have something to tell Jack about his pops.
 02-04-2010, 10:29 AM         #315
AbsLikeJesus 
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I would say LOST is nearly flawless EXCEPT for one thing: Adding a smoke monster is the most stupid thing ever. I am an avid LOST fan, but I can't rate it 10/10 with an immortal, k!ller smoke that can transform into any dead person and read memories.
 8 years ago '04        #316
Propel Water 20 heat pts20
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how the f**k culd i sayied be takin over by jacob?

they did the same thing to him like they did to young ben wen he got shot by sayied! IRONIC!!!!

jacob didnt possess him...


Also the ash keeps smokey out not jacob in fool. thasts why bram surrounded himself with it in the statue temple... so the smoke monster culdnt get him.... the same thing at the temple... their tryn to keep him out!

its not that complicated guys...
 8 years ago '04        #317
nitetrain8601 22 heat pts22
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 Wasted said:

The ash thing is kinda weird tho.

Ilyna found his cabin ash to be broken. But if you go back to season one. We see Christian walking around the jungle and Ecko brother talking to Locke during the hatch thing.

This was before Hugo broke the ash at the cabin.

So either I don't get how the ash kept him in. It clearly didn't.


Plus also when Ben visited "Jacob" (we know now that is where Flocke leaves) in the cabin he said "he never seea "Jacob" just speaks to him" Well Why didn't Flocke tell Ben to remove the ash so he can be set free?
Maybe either one can't leave until one group wins - Good or Evil.
 8 years ago '05        #318
Wasted|M 26 heat pts26
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yeah the ash is like a barrier to keep the smokey out. Hence the temple is surrounded by it.

 nitetrain8601 said:
Maybe either one can't leave until one group wins - Good or Evil.

What do you mean? I'm talking about why didn't Flocke tell Ben to remove the ash.
 8 years ago '05        #319
Wasted|M 26 heat pts26
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 shookid said:
i think you may be confused. the ash is used to keep the monster away from Jacob in the scenes you mentioned. i think it will be interesting to see what the asian has to say to Jack as he was summoned right when Sayid woke up. I am sure he will have something to tell Jack about his pops.

Jacob lives in the shoe. Not the cabin. That was Smokey/Flocke.
 8 years ago '04        #320
nitetrain8601 22 heat pts22
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 Wasted said:
yeah the ash is like a barrier to keep the smokey out. Hence the temple is surrounded by it.



What do you mean? I'm talking about why didn't Flocke tell Ben to remove the ash.
My bad, thinking out loud.

As far as Ben removing the ash, that's a good question. Maybe he didn't think he would do it? I doubt it will get answered though. Or maybe in the following episodes he will try to get Ben to remove it from the Temple.
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