LOST: The Final Season Discussion Thread

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 8 years ago '06        #2841
modalee 5 heat pts
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Check out someone from Bad Robots take on the finale it kinda confirms a lot of things:



First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to k!ll him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. k!ll the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to k!ll one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to k!ll the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" k!lled Dharma and later were actively trying to k!ll Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to k!ll Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to k!ll Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to k!ll Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

[pic - click to view]




Last edited by modalee; 05-24-2010 at 09:06 PM..
 8 years ago '05        #2842
Wasted|M 26 heat pts26
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Just finished watching it. Haven't read no comments but damn I am satisfied. only upto page 13 with comments and posts.





 -Phase One- said:
After this show is over, one of the mods should throw this thread in the Classics section.


Word, I'mma talk to Ronnie about that. Who ever suggested Fringe I'll look into that too.

Shannon and Sayid does not make sense. THey f**ked that up. Sayid loves Nardia. The whole Shannon story was suppose to make him realise that?

The whole finale was predictable, you just knew who would turn up, who would do what, what will happen etc.

I can't front tho, I enjoyed it, enjoyed the 6 years of the story.

 8 years ago '09        #2843
Ricky Towel 128 heat pts128
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 TheBallDontLie said:

Seems like everyone is complaining or confused about it.
not me.

and only a select few in this thread are complaining.
 05-24-2010, 09:04 PM         #2844
IronMaiden 
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Ending was amazing to me, most of the people hating don't understand what the show is about and what it was about from the beginning and that is fine, the show makes you think and if you don't have the IQ to stay up with it you will not like the ending.
 8 years ago '08        #2845
Chief Dee 6 heat pts
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What reppindaburgh said makes more sense because that island was definitely real. This is confirmed because even when the man in black was a child, he knew that there was more to the world than the island. Plus at one point, the island became visible when they didnt push the bottom, which means that the island is on earth, but is unknown to the rest of the world. Plus the island itself is supposed to be the "cork" for the world.

The theory of all of them dying in the plane doesnt work because Christian said that some of the people at the end died before and after Jack, and we know that Hurley watched the island after Jack. Therefore neither Jack or Hurley could have died on the plane because that mean they couldnt have protected the island. Which also means that everyone did not die on the plane. The only purgatory could have been the alt, cuz it the alternate reality doesnt operate on the same chronological time of the real world, which is why people who died after Jack were there.
 05-24-2010, 09:07 PM         #2846
TheBallDontLie 
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Why wouldn't the island be real? I don't get it i watched a few episodes here and there from different seasons.
 05-24-2010, 09:16 PM         #2847
TheBallDontLie 
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[video - click to view]

 8 years ago '05        #2848
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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I'm willing to bet that in the years to come this will be recognized as one of the greatest finale's of all time. It already is recognized as that by me.
 8 years ago '05        #2849
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 TheBallDontLie said:
Aw. I typo and typed worst instead of worse, now my intelligence isn't high enough for a lame series. Great point! You're very open minded.

That's funny coming from some fat n*gga who just plays video games all the time and asking for advice on BX how to lose weight.

Seems like everyone is complaining or confused about it.
Hey man, we got into it at one point in the gambling thread, but since then I think we squashed that, and I know your personality (at least your Boxden personality) and I know your actually an intelligent dude. So trust me, the people complaining about the finale are IDIOTS. If you actually gave the show a watch through all the way through the finale you would think it was a masterpiece, as do the reputable regulars in this thread.
 05-24-2010, 09:32 PM         #2850
WorldsStrangest 
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 TheBallDontLie said:
 05-24-2010, 09:35 PM         #2851
TheBallDontLie 
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 Reppindaburghh said:
Hey man, we got into it at one point in the gambling thread, but since then I think we squashed that, and I know your personality (at least your Boxden personality) and I know your actually an intelligent dude. So trust me, the people complaining about the finale are IDIOTS. If you actually gave the show a watch through all the way through the finale you would think it was a masterpiece, as do the reputable regulars in this thread.
I'm going to watch the series finale myself. I'll let you know what i think. Its honestly just isn't my type of show. I'm not going to waste my time watching six seasons. I won't express my opinions on why i dislike it because it seems like they're so too many up tights in here, but that still doesn't mean i don't respect your opinion cause i do. I'll give the finale a shot with a open mind.


Last edited by TheBallDontLie; 05-24-2010 at 09:40 PM..
 05-24-2010, 09:37 PM         #2852
WorldsStrangest 
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 TheBallDontLie said:
Aw. I typo and typed worst instead of worse, now my intelligence isn't high enough for a lame series. Great point! You're very open minded.

That's funny coming from some fat n*gga who just plays video games all the time and asking for advice on BX how to lose weight.

Seems like everyone is complaining or confused about it.
dont even trip. as you can see. thats all they can do is attack you and say "youre not smart enough" but they bring nothing to the table


we've seen high profile sites like New York Times, MSNBC.Com and millions of twitter and lost fans bash the finale, obviously these select 4-5 on boxden are obviously on a higher level than us and we just cant understand it.

better change your profile before they enter it and attack.


"It presents more questions and then decided not to answer them."


ps. i guess this is trolling and spammming tho right?
 05-24-2010, 09:40 PM         #2853
WorldsStrangest 
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 modalee81 said:
Alright maybe im missing something but was it ever explained why the island was under water in the episode LA X?
good question
 8 years ago '05        #2854
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 modalee81 said:
Check out someone from Bad Robots take on the finale it kinda confirms a lot of things:



First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to k!ll him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. k!ll the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to k!ll one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to k!ll the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" k!lled Dharma and later were actively trying to k!ll Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to k!ll Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to k!ll Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to k!ll Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

[pic - click to view]


I agree with SOMEEEEEE of the s**t he is saying. But some of it is totally off. They did not write the finale' right after the premiere, I find that EXTREMELYYYYY doubtful considering they had Jack dieing in the 1st or 2nd episode originally. Also, Libby was not around at that time. Desmond was not around. That is a ridiculous notion and makes the entire article lose credibility (credibility that was already questionable from some of those outlandish claims.). But it was well written, and I respect the dudes opinion no doubt. Just disagree with a medium sized portion of it.


Last edited by ReppinDaBurghh; 05-24-2010 at 09:51 PM..
 8 years ago '05        #2855
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 WorldsStrangest said:
dont even trip. as you can see. thats all they can do is attack you and say "youre not smart enough" but they bring nothing to the table


we've seen high profile sites like New York Times, MSNBC.Com and millions of twitter and lost fans bash the finale, obviously these select 4-5 on boxden are obviously on a higher level than us and we just cant understand it.

better change your profile before they enter it and attack.


"It presents more questions and then decided not to answer them."


ps. i guess this is trolling and spammming tho right?

No, actually that is not trolling and spamming (for once). You are actually arguing with points instead of just blindly insulting people. So I will entertain your thoughts.

You bring up reviews. Come on man? You name 2 and leave out many. The number of positive reviews FARRRR outweigh the number of negative reviews. This is fact.

You cannot even understand why Kate/Sawyer/Hurley/Ben were in purgatory with Jack and the gang. That simple fact right there, that one fact, admitted by you in this very thread, proves that you are not capable of understanding this show. That is not hard to wrap your head around at all, and damn near EVERYONE understands it, even the people who were not fans of the episode.


Edit: And about 3+ pages of your responses were deleted by mods in this thread because you are embarrassing yourself. Further proving my point that your opinion, in the end, means jack s**t.


Last edited by ReppinDaBurghh; 05-24-2010 at 09:49 PM..
 05-24-2010, 09:54 PM         #2856
WorldsStrangest 
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 TheBallDontLie said:
No one can talk until you watch and explain all the faults presented in this video.



wow.

woooooooooooooooooooow.


BLOGGED.
 8 years ago '07        #2857
RedMonkeyJunkie 11 heat pts11
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I was just expecting to learn more about the island.
Posted via Mobile Device
 8 years ago '06        #2858
-Phase One- 1 heat pts
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 Maroon_Tiger said:
the jimmy kimmel aftershow was kinda lame imo.. i thought they would've brought LEGIT alternate endings... but all they had was SNL-type spoofs
I was pissed off when they turned that s**t to jokes. When the host of Survivor walked out I was like "Are you f**king kidding me?!?"

I feel like Jimmy didn't even interview the cast properly. I know Daniel only said a few sentences which had nothing to do with the show. Same with Charles and others. I figured he'd go in depth with each person. Only ones who made the interview worth watching was Jack, John, Ben, and Jin was pretty funny.





 Wasted said:
Just finished watching it. Haven't read no comments but damn I am satisfied. only upto page 13 with comments and posts.







Word, I'mma talk to Ronnie about that. Who ever suggested Fringe I'll look into that too.

Shannon and Sayid does not make sense. THey f**ked that up. Sayid loves Nardia. The whole Shannon story was suppose to make him realise that?

The whole finale was predictable, you just knew who would turn up, who would do what, what will happen etc.

I can't front tho, I enjoyed it, enjoyed the 6 years of the story.

Word. I think this should be thrown into the classics once everything dies down.





 modalee81 said:
Check out someone from Bad Robots take on the finale it kinda confirms a lot of things:



First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to k!ll him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. k!ll the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to k!ll one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to k!ll the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" k!lled Dharma and later were actively trying to k!ll Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to k!ll Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to k!ll Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to k!ll Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

[pic - click to view]


Major props for that. Good read. That pretty much broke down the whole show down to a T.





 modalee81 said:
Alright maybe im missing something but was it ever explained why the island was under water in the episode LA X?
During that time, they were in purgatory living how they wanted to, so they figured after the bomb went off, the island sank. That's how they; the losties, wanted it to happen. If that makes any sense .....


Last edited by -Phase One-; 05-24-2010 at 10:01 PM..
 8 years ago '09        #2859
Ricky Towel 128 heat pts128
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motherf**ker the only thing i bashed you for is wanting 80s style text on screen recaps of what happened to every character after the show ended.

i dont understand why you cant just accept that kate, sawyer and claire died at some point after on island story we watched.

theres nothing wrong with not liking the ending.
 8 years ago '06        #2860
modalee 5 heat pts
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 Reppindaburghh said:
I agree with SOMEEEEEE of the s**t he is saying. But some of it is totally off. They did not write the finale' right after the premiere, I find that EXTREMELYYYYY doubtful considering they had Jack dieing in the 1st or 2nd episode originally. Also, Libby was not around at that time. Desmond was not around. That is a ridiculous notion and makes the entire article lose credibility (credibility that was already questionable from some of those outlandish claims.). But it was well written, and I respect the dudes opinion no doubt. Just disagree with a medium sized portion of it.
The dude is part of JJ Abrams production company he knows for a fact that they wrote the final scene right after the pilot.
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