Roy Jones Jr. vs Bernard Hopkins[4-3-2010][HBO-PPV]

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winner
Bhop by KO 14 41.18%
Bhop by Dec 9 26.47%
Draw 1 2.94%
RJJR by KO 1 2.94%
RJJR by Dec 9 26.47%
Voters: 34. Sorry, you cannot vote on this poll (Boxden members only)

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Props Slaps
 8 years ago '08        #601
triznathaniel 42 heat pts42
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 nattidred said:
I was gonna respond to him then I realized it's just a waste of time. I'm an MMA fan prolly more than he is and a boxing fan but you will never hear me say those things, boxing and mma are 2 different sports and they are both here to stay so get used to those kinds of comments people.
a.ssume what you will about my fandom... the point i was trying to make was about the spirit of the competition, and the closest comparison i could make was to mma... unfortunately, the 'mma vs. boxing' discussion gets started by a lot of know-nothings and boxing fans tend to take things personally... i know because i have been on the boxing side of that discussion many times

if you try to keep an open mind to what i was saying, i doubt you could disagree...
 8 years ago '07        #602
stogz 18 heat pts18
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 nattidred said:
I was gonna respond to him then I realized it's just a waste of time. I'm an MMA fan prolly more than he is and a boxing fan but you will never hear me say those things, boxing and mma are 2 different sports and they are both here to stay so get used to those kinds of comments people.
I'm not a fan of mma, yet. I like a few specific f!ghters though... the ones that are active and don't lay on the ground for huge periods of time. Silva and St. Pierre. In theory, mma sounds like it would be fantastic. In reality, the majority of this generation's f!ghters are not that good.

 triznathaniel said:
nah man... i wasn't trying to say this f!ght is what all f!ghts are like... but for a f!ght that could have and should have had the kind of hype that comes with two legends competing, regardless of where they are in their careers, it was very disappointing to see it degenerate to the point that it did... and i'm not an expert on mma, but i can't think of a f!ght that happened under similar circumstances that ended up this way

i didn't expect history to be written, but i did want to see a good f!ght happen... and it was marred by tactics that many would describe as 'cunning' or that of a veteran... and you just don't see that with mma... yeah, you get bad f!ghts, horrible unwatchable f!ghts sometimes... but to me, the spirit of an mma f!ght has yet to be tarnished to this degree

i apologize if i came off as though this f!ght was the end all or anything like that

I was just taking your words at face value. If you say that 'this f!ght is a perfect example', then I am gonna take it as you meant to say 'this f!ght is a perfect example'. So maybe you should read over what you write before you post it.


If you don't compare:

Checkers to Chess,
Baseball to Cricket
Rugby to Football
pr0nstars to Actresses

then don't compare mma to boxing.
 8 years ago '07        #603
stogz 18 heat pts18
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 triznathaniel said:
assume what you will about my fandom... the point i was trying to make was about the spirit of the competition, and the closest comparison i could make was to mma... unfortunately, the 'mma vs. boxing' discussion gets started by a lot of know-nothings and boxing fans tend to take things personally... i know because i have been on the boxing side of that discussion many times

if you try to keep an open mind to what i was saying, i doubt you could disagree...

You mean like when Cris Arreola apologized for not being able to put up a better showing against Klitschko? That kind of spirit? Tons of boxers over the years have expressed shame over the years.

The only know-nothing here, is obviously you. You say something point blank, then back pedal when called on it. You go into a boxing thread, and compare a part of mma to boxing, then say that 'mma vs. boxing' discussions always happen, like you were not the one...

 8 years ago '07        #604
stogz 18 heat pts18
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Hey fishscale, is it you or ronnie that takes the thread out of the boxing thread, put it in the main sports section, then put it back again.

That is some good work.
 8 years ago '06        #605
kevkhalee 1 heat pts
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2 things i learned from this f!ght:

1-Roy is done.
2-Bhop style all but guarantees a win against David Haye.
 8 years ago '08        #606
triznathaniel 42 heat pts42
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 stogz said:
You mean like when Cris Arreola apologized for not being able to put up a better showing against Klitschko? That kind of spirit? Tons of boxers over the years have expressed shame over the years.

The only know-nothing here, is obviously you. You say something point blank, then back pedal when called on it. You go into a boxing thread, and compare a part of mma to boxing, then say that 'mma vs. boxing' discussions always happen, like you were not the one...

okay

obviously you're much more knowledgeable and can say the things you say... the fact is i respect your opinion and think that you add a lot to boxing threads on bx... but i also think you could take it back a notch and try to see what i am saying

yes, boxers have fought badly and expressed regret, just the same as in mma... but how often does an mma f!ghter f!ght the way bernard hopkins just did, and act as though he achieved something?
 8 years ago '08        #607
nattidred 16 heat pts16
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 stogz said:
I'm not a fan of mma, yet. I like a few specific f!ghters though... the ones that are active and don't lay on the ground for huge periods of time. Silva and St. Pierre. In theory, mma sounds like it would be fantastic. In reality, the majority of this generation's f!ghters are not that good.




I was just taking your words at face value. If you say that 'this f!ght is a perfect example', then I am gonna take it as you meant to say 'this f!ght is a perfect example'. So maybe you should read over what you write before you post it.


If you don't compare:

Checkers to Chess,
Baseball to Cricket
Rugby to Football
pr0nstars to Actresses

then don't compare mma to boxing.

I agree with everything you wrote but those things to really understand MMA and appreciate it you have to respect all the aspects right? The ground game is a huge part of MMA its not just two dudes laying on top of each other, first of all it takes skill to take someone to the ground at will (gsp vs hardy) but then if you can keep them there and strike, cause enough damage and confusion then go for a sub which is what GSP tried to do and do it successfully that's the science of MMA. Like it or not me just seeing all the different facets of MMA then actually training myself I can truly appreciate that part of the game and would never boo like those idiots at shows do.


B-Hop said boxing has it's sweet science and MMA has it's science, I grew up on boxing and discovered MMA pretty early in the UFC's life and seen the leaps and bounds the sport has made that's prolly another reason why I can appreciate it more and the f!ghters of today are far superior in skill to those of UFC 1.
 8 years ago '07        #608
stogz 18 heat pts18
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 triznathaniel said:
okay

obviously you're much more knowledgeable and can say the things you say... the fact is i respect your opinion and think that you add a lot to boxing threads on bx... but i also think you could take it back a notch and try to see what i am saying

yes, boxers have fought badly and expressed regret, just the same as in mma... but how often does an mma f!ghter f!ght the way bernard hopkins just did, and act as though he achieved something?

LOL!!!

Okay, I see where you went wrong here. Lemme explain this to you.


Hopkins is part senile. He has a Penn State education.... I mean, Penn State Prison System education. He is a former convict, lousy businessman, under educated, con-man/bullsh*t artist. The life he lives in his mind, and the one he lives in reality are sooooo far apart.

Hopkins is bad for boxing? Absolutely! However, Hopkins isn't the posterboy for the sport.


Remember that episode of the simpsons when the elementary school was gonna test all the students to see what the school average would be? Remember principal skimmer managed to get rid of Bart and all the stupid kids that would bring the school's average down? Well, Hopkins is one of those stupid kids that boxing tries to hide. Just like springfield public school should not be judged based on bart simpson's grades... our sport should not be judged on hopkins' senility.

Thank you, and good night.


Last edited by stogz; 04-04-2010 at 12:49 AM..
 8 years ago '04        #609
CentsCuZ 19 heat pts19
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 Bedlam said:
You just did the same thing dude... You picked a dumb comment and used that to generalize an entire fan base, exactly like he picked a dumb f!ght to generalize a sport. Cut that s**t out...
You can't possibly be so dumb as to not realize that that was his point, or can you? :wow:
 8 years ago '07        #610
stogz 18 heat pts18
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 nattidred said:
I agree with everything you wrote but those things to really understand MMA and appreciate it you have to respect all the aspects right? The ground game is a huge part of MMA its not just two dudes laying on top of each other, first of all it takes skill to take someone to the ground at will (gsp vs hardy) but then if you can keep them there and strike, cause enough damage and confusion then go for a sub which is what GSP tried to do and do it successfully that's the science of MMA. Like it or not me just seeing all the different facets of MMA then actually training myself I can truly appreciate that part of the game and would never boo like those idiots at shows do.


B-Hop said boxing has it's sweet science and MMA has it's science, I grew up on boxing and discovered MMA pretty early in the UFC's life and seen the leaps and bounds the sport has made that's prolly another reason why I can appreciate it more and the f!ghters of today are far superior in skill to those of UFC 1.

It is two dudes just laying on each other..... when the two dudes are just laying on each other.

I'm not talking about when they are maneuvering and striking, and accomplishing some sort of success. I'm talking about when they are not having any success, and then they give up, while lying there. Then the official comes in and stands them up.... and they are gassed already.

I understand mma well, have 2 cousins that are trained in many disciplines.
 8 years ago '08        #611
nattidred 16 heat pts16
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 stogz said:
It is two dudes just laying on each other..... when the two dudes are just laying on each other.

I'm not talking about when they are maneuvering and striking, and accomplishing some sort of success. I'm talking about when they are not having any success, and then they give up, while lying there. Then the official comes in and stands them up.... and they are gassed already.

I understand mma well, have 2 cousins that are trained in many disciplines.
I see what you did there.


That's like a stalemate no one wants to give any ground so if you're better standing up then hold on and stand up. Now if they gas that's stamina issues and falls on the f!ghters shoulders but don't say that's what you don't like about MMA like every single f!ghter just gasses then becomes sloppy. I hate when that happens the outcome is a wack f!ght and those dudes shouldn't even be f!ghting if they become tired so easily.
 8 years ago '07        #612
stogz 18 heat pts18
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 nattidred said:
I see what you did there.


That's like a stalemate no one wants to give any ground so if you're better standing up then hold on and stand up. Now if they gas that's stamina issues and falls on the f!ghters shoulders but don't say that's what you don't like about MMA like every single f!ghter just gasses then becomes sloppy. I hate when that happens the outcome is a wack f!ght and those dudes shouldn't even be f!ghting if they become tired so easily.

Well, it happens a lot. So much so, that I stopped watching most of the matches and only stick to f!ghters whose styles i like. Cuz i hate that aspect of the sport so much.

Just like in boxing, i saw two f!ghts today that were dirty as h*ll. I hate dirty f!ghting and dirty f!ghters. I hate f!ghts in England, I hate f!ghts in Germany, I hate f!ghts in RussiaI hate corrupt judges and refs. It damn near ALWAYS happens over there. It's not every boxing match in the world but, it happens enough to where i can vent about it.
 8 years ago '04        #613
dirtybayrecordz 1 heat pts
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 stogz said:
Hey fishscale, is it you or ronnie that takes the thread out of the boxing thread, put it in the main sports section, then put it back again.

That is some good work.
NOT NECCESARILY I WOULDNT SAY GOOD WORK. BECAUSE I GO INTO THE IN PRO BOXING PRESENTED BY BX SECTION AND DONT FIND s**t. AND BEFORE WHEN I DIDNT KNOW IT WAS IN THE SPORTSCENTER SECTION I COULDNT FIND IT. SO NO I SAY KEEP IT IN THE BOXING SECTION
 8 years ago '07        #614
Welsh! 
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^Couldn't agree more.

It's not hard too click on an extra section to come into the pro boxing section, quit being lazy.
 8 years ago '07        #615
Welsh! 
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On a side note:

I didn't watch this f!ght, Calzaghe ruined them both, they have not been the same since :agreement6:

lol
 8 years ago '08        #616
triznathaniel 42 heat pts42
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 stogz said:
LOL!!!

Okay, I see where you went wrong here. Lemme explain this to you.


Hopkins is part senile. He has a Penn State education.... I mean, Penn State Prison System education. He is a former convict, lousy businessman, under educated, con-man/bullsh*t artist. The life he lives in his mind, and the one he lives in reality are sooooo far apart.

Hopkins is bad for boxing? Absolutely! However, Hopkins isn't the posterboy for the sport.


Remember that episode of the simpsons when the elementary school was gonna test all the students to see what the school average would be? Remember principal skimmer managed to get rid of Bart and all the stupid kids that would bring the school's average down? Well, Hopkins is one of those stupid kids that boxing tries to hide. Just like springfield public school should not be judged based on bart simpson's grades... our sport should not be judged on hopkins' senility.

Thank you, and good night.
i know about bernard hopkins... the thing is, there are a lot of f!ghters who aren't necessarily considered great, but have gotten some shine in their careers in the same fashion as him... i know you know this... and, without getting into specifics, that is what is wrong with the sport. boxing does have a way of weeding out these misfits, but the way mma is organized and its rules make it so the bad seeds are weeded out more effectively. there are still bad f!ghts and f!ghters who are pieces of garbage, but it is way more difficult, maybe even impossible, to rise to the heights of a bernard hopkins in that sport... and that is an advantage mma has over boxing in terms of the product they put out...

of course, if i say that instead of 'overall, mma > boxing', it's more clear, but then people just see an wall of text and ignore it... but i guess 'quick and to the point' doesn't matter when people get the wrong idea... regardless, i expected more than for you to disrespect an entire generation of f!ghters when you admit you don't know much about the sport yet, but okay

 stogz said:
Well, it happens a lot. So much so, that I stopped watching most of the matches and only stick to f!ghters whose styles i like. Cuz i hate that aspect of the sport so much.

Just like in boxing, i saw two f!ghts today that were dirty as h*ll. I hate dirty f!ghting and dirty f!ghters. I hate f!ghts in England, I hate f!ghts in Germany, I hate f!ghts in RussiaI hate corrupt judges and refs. It damn near ALWAYS happens over there. It's not every boxing match in the world but, it happens enough to where i can vent about it.
that's the thing... there is a style of dirty f!ghting that is accepted in boxing as 'veteran tactics' and there is not really anything you can equate to that in mma... i think you would cite the 'lay and pray' style, but i think that is more comparable to a boxer who is overly cautious and either stays out of range or clinches excessively, just surviving and avoiding a KO... i hate wrestlers/bjj artists with that style as well, but it is something that is not nearly as rampant as it was in the early days... and the more i learned about the different positions and what opportunities are present at every stage (offensively and defensively), the more it made sense and the less boring it was...

maybe you just need to learn more about that aspect of the game, maybe it's just not your thing... it's really not the point i was trying to make... you were obviously frustrated by the two f!ghts that happened today, so i think that despite the way you've tried to bury me in this thread, you would agree with what i've been trying to say all along... in fairness, i said i was done with boxing out of frustration, and i have said it before... it is a frustration similar to yours... and so please don't get offended or take it personally
 8 years ago '07        #617
stogz 18 heat pts18
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^^^ You again? What are you on about?


Yeah, there are some boxers who are stylistically horrible who win f!ghts. Hopkins, Ruiz, etc. However, who the h*ll are you kidding when you say mma weeds out people better? First of all, I am certain you are basing you mma argument on ufc. Second, why and how the h*ll is Kimbo so popular? Dude would not even receive a chance in boxing. How the h*ll did Brock Lesnar become champ in 4 total f!ghts???! Dude is horrible. All these guys that Silva has been f!ghting lately.... smh, they are all a.ss. How do those bullsh*t guys get title shots? The other mma organizations don't have much of an audience at all.


Next, do you even read? How dare you even try to take my words out of context to prove some fictitious point you are trying to make. Dirty f!ghting is only accepted in boxing when f!ghters can get away with it in the ring. Veteran tactics, are nothing more than a dude not getting caught. Who the h*ll do you hear saying 'Hopkins' low blows, headbutts, and acting is good and make him a great f!ghter'. Morons that like him, totally ignore that stuff as if it never happened. If it was accepted, EVERYONE would do it, instead of a handful of f!ghters.

I seen 2 dirty f!ghts today, and the last one I recall before that was last year November. So out of the dozens of f!ghts I watch each month... if I happen to catch one dirty f!ght every other month, so be it.

Let's get something straight. I don't watch bullsh*t grapplers and wrestlers in mma just like I don't watch Hopkins' f!ghts. I know all I need to know about wrestlers/grapplers and Hopkins' style.... I don't need to look for some 'hidden beauty' in it. It's bullsh*t.

So, just because an mma fan doesn't like grapplers, that doesn't mean he doesn't like mma. Just because i can't stand Hopkins' and Ruiz, doesn't mean there is some underlying problem with the tactics used in boxing. Just like an mma fan may only like ufc as a product, i prefer the North American boxing product over the european product. In no way does that give someone who admits to not being knowledgable, the right to paint an entire sport with one brush.


Last edited by stogz; 04-04-2010 at 10:14 AM..
 8 years ago '07        #618
stogz 18 heat pts18
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 dirtybayrecordz said:
NOT NECCESARILY I WOULDNT SAY GOOD WORK. BECAUSE I GO INTO THE IN PRO BOXING PRESENTED BY BX SECTION AND DONT FIND s**t. AND BEFORE WHEN I DIDNT KNOW IT WAS IN THE SPORTSCENTER SECTION I COULDNT FIND IT. SO NO I SAY KEEP IT IN THE BOXING SECTION
 Welsh! said:
^Couldn't agree more.

It's not hard too click on an extra section to come into the pro boxing section, quit being lazy.
I hear what y'all saying but, apparently it is too hard for people to click in here. That's why there were 2 threads on it. Those people out there are lazy. This thread would've been less than half the size if it stayed in here the entire time. So, obviously.... what Fishscale or Ronnie were trying to accomplish, worked. For that, I say 'good work'.
 8 years ago '09        #619
McmasterlockPt2 41 heat pts41
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Man that f!ght was fixed like a muthaf**ka!
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 8 years ago '08        #620
triznathaniel 42 heat pts42
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 stogz said:
^^^ You again? What are you on about?


Yeah, there are some boxers who are stylistically horrible who win f!ghts. Hopkins, Ruiz, etc. However, who the h*ll are you kidding when you say mma weeds out people better? First of all, I am certain you are basing you mma argument on ufc. Second, why and how the h*ll is Kimbo so popular? Dude would not even receive a chance in boxing. How the h*ll did Brock Lesnar become champ in 4 total f!ghts???! Dude is horrible. All these guys that Silva has been f!ghting lately.... smh, they are all a.ss. How do those bullsh*t guys get title shots? The other mma organizations don't have much of an audience at all.
Nah, I'm not basing my opinion on UFC solely. I'm speaking on the sport as a whole... yes there are bad f!ghters who get TV time, but, as I said, none of them will ever come close to being stars in the sport, much less reach the stature that Hopkins has. Guys like Herschel Walker and Kimbo Slice will never achieve anything in MMA, but they do attract a new audience, and so while they will never amount to much, they are good for the sport. And with Brock, again, it's all about viewership, and Brock's name has pull with pro wrestling fans. Brock Lesnar didn't have the experience, but he was definitely ready for a title shot... I mean, he does have the belt, right? Whether he holds onto it for long is another story, but he will not be babied or fed bums as long as he holds the title. I personally think that the HW division is not the most competitive in the UFC anyway, but it is what it is... I don't think Brock would have risen so quickly in StrikeForce, where the competition is more fierce, but he isn't in StrikeForce.

As far as Anderson Silva's opponents... yeah, he's been in there with a couple 'bums' recently like James Irvin or Patrick Cote... but they were next in line... the whole division isn't on the same level... and Vitor Belfort was next in line, and that would have been an excellent f!ght... hey, I'd like to see Silva defend against great f!ghters like Wanderlai or Akiyama, but that ain't the way the sport works all the time... I realize this flies in the face of the logic behind Brock's rise, but I never said the sport was perfect... only more well designed in terms of seeing the best rise to the highest of heights... beyond all that, you are only considering UFC talent here... there is plenty of talent out there elsewhere

In boxing, there are tactics like holding, lowering the shoulder, headbutting in the clinch, that are illegal but can be utilized if you are good at being aware of the ref's position etc... this is often described as 'crafty veteran' tactics even though it is clearly not in the spirit of the competition... they make it damn near impossible to do this in MMA... that is just a byproduct of the way the game is played...

Next, do you even read? How dare you even try to take my words out of context to prove some fictitious point you are trying to make. Dirty f!ghting is only accepted in boxing when f!ghters can get away with it in the ring. Veteran tactics, are nothing more than a dude not getting caught. Who the h*ll do you hear saying 'Hopkins' low blows, headbutts, and acting is good and make him a great f!ghter'. Morons that like him, totally ignore that stuff as if it never happened. If it was accepted, EVERYONE would do it, instead of a handful of f!ghters.
Damn, who peed in your coffee, k!ller? All you've done throughout this thread is put words in my mouth and all I've done is explain myself, trying to set you straight, and without resorting to insults...

I never heard anyone praise a f!ghter for f!ghting dirty, but Hopkins wins f!ghts that way, and although broadcasters and experts don't really give him praise for it, they do mention that he is a wily veteran... and at the end of the day, it's all about W-L, and that is how his greatness is measured... greatness that is built on cheating that is almost impossible to prevent, essentially. Again, this is coming from a guy who loved watching f!ghts from his youth... it is a flaw in the sport... I know you agree deep down.

I seen 2 dirty f!ghts today, and the last one I recall before that was last year November. So out of the dozens of f!ghts I watch each month... if I happen to catch one dirty f!ght every other month, so be it.
Fair enough. I agree with you here.

Let's get something straight. I don't watch bullsh*t grapplers and wrestlers in mma just like I don't watch Hopkins' f!ghts. I know all I need to know about wrestlers/grapplers and Hopkins' style.... I don't need to look for some 'hidden beauty' in it. It's bullsh*t.

So, just because an mma fan doesn't like grapplers, that doesn't mean he doesn't like mma. Just because i can't stand Hopkins' and Ruiz, doesn't mean there is some underlying problem with the tactics used in boxing. Just like an mma fan may only like ufc as a product, i prefer the North American boxing product over the european product. In no way does that give someone who admits to not being knowledgable, the right to paint an entire sport with one brush.
Yeah, I was painting in broad strokes, but again, who starts with the details? Maybe what I really want is a change in how boxing is refereed or scored or judged... I'm not sure what the answer is because, as I said, I am what you would call more of a casual fan at this point. Since you're more of a hardcore fan with an educated opinion to offer, maybe try offering it to a guy who isn't trying to pick a f!ght... but don't tell me not to paint in broad strokes when you're s**tting on an entire generation of f!ghters that you admit you're not very familiar with.
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