Jul 27 - 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Healthcare Reform

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 8 years ago '05        #21
bobbysteels18 663 heat pts663
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 HoviWay said:
ok,so they are planning to work on a potentially better health care reform plan for americans and before this thing can even be put into effect,some americans are already looking at their "presumed" negatives..im not american,tho i live in north america....this is ridiculous....why dont yall just keep ur fingers crossed and hope for a better health care?

Under Obama theres nothing to hope for, all hope was lost when he wanted to hold talks with Iran.
 07-28-2009, 02:53 AM         #22
Zo1987 
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I wanna choose my doctor, the other reasons im not worried about.
 07-28-2009, 06:20 AM         #23
unkle 
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 get_ate said:
...so Canada, the UK, and any other country that has some form of socialized health-care is less free than the U.S.?

...hmmmmm.

...so negating the current dilemma that many citizens of this country find themselves in frequently of having to weigh the pros and cons of going to the doctor ( go to the doctor for an ailment and declare bankruptcy in order to pay for said medical service or not go to the doctor and die ) is akin to eventual oppression and a harkening of Stalinism ( or any other form of dictatorship ).

...give me a fu*king break.
Public hospitals, by law, cannot turn away the sick/injured patients regardless if they can pay or not. Only the private hospitals can turn away the uninsured and those who cannot pay. Also we already have medicare and medicaid for the people without their own healthcare.

Plus, medical bills do not affect your credit scores so no one has to declare bankruptcy to pay anything. Most will just walk away from paying at all, hence the high cost of everything medical care. The cost that does not get paid by the treated patients are absorbed into everyone else's bill.
 8 years ago '04        #24
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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The biggest problem with healthcare is the billions of dollars of medicare and medicaid fraud. Literally BILLIONS of dollars in fraud. If they could fix that, they would have more than enough money to fix the healthcare system.
 8 years ago '04        #25
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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Health insurance
In general

The U.S. spends more than $2 trillion on healthcare annually. At least 3 percent of that spending — or $68 billion — is lost to fraud each year. (National Health Care Anti-Fraud a.ssociation, 2008)

 07-28-2009, 07:45 PM         #26
Jimbo 
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This is so much deeper than just "healthcare," it's a government takeover. Banks, car companies, insurance companies, and soon health care and more. Next even more liberties and freedom will be taken away, ie. freedom of speech. The global financial collapse was orchestrated on purpose in order for the takeover to be possible... they want a dictatorial world government to result from all of this.
 07-28-2009, 08:03 PM         #27
Jimbo 
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Also, this has nothing to do with the two-party paradigm. All of this would be happening the same exact way if McCain were in office. Obama and McCain do not call shots in the government, they simply do what they're told by people higher up who could care less about Democrats/Republicans.
 8 years ago '04        #28
toro4574 
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Hmmmmm... Sooooo Big corporate healthcare deciding what doctor i goto and specialist them giving me test that i dont need just to pad there pocket or the government deciding what doctor I go to and deciding on what specialist and in the end The ability not to be dropped or denied health coverage... I'll take my chance on the governments plan
 8 years ago '04        #29
toro4574 
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 Jimbo said:
This is so much deeper than just "healthcare," it's a government takeover. Banks, car companies, insurance companies, and soon health care and more. Next even more liberties and freedom will be taken away, ie. freedom of speech. The global financial collapse was orchestrated on purpose in order for the takeover to be possible... they want a dictatorial world government to result from all of this.
So if this is your take on that jimbo i guess it was the government's idea to take down the towers so gov't can take away or right to privacy i.e the patriot act?. It looks like it was the lack of govt supervision that got us into this mess. (private mortgage lenders raping people) And the gov't intervention was just to help this country from crumbling under private companies greed. The gov't didnt tell the auto companies to produces H1,H2,H3, the government didnt give out these NinJA loans (no income, no job, no a.sset) it was the banks. Therefore unfortunately the govt has to intervene. I was def not saying that they should have, but all i see is what has came out of it.. I Dont know if i really would want to have seen this country if it didnt happen.
 07-28-2009, 09:27 PM         #30
yungb 
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 toro4574 said:
So if this is your take on that jimbo i guess it was the government's idea to take down the towers so gov't can take away or right to privacy i.e the patriot act?. It looks like it was the lack of govt supervision that got us into this mess. (private mortgage lenders raping people) And the gov't intervention was just to help this country from crumbling under private companies greed. The gov't didnt tell the auto companies to produces H1,H2,H3, the government didnt give out these NinJA loans (no income, no job, no a.sset) it was the banks. Therefore unfortunately the govt has to intervene. I was def not saying that they should have, but all i see is what has came out of it.. I Dont know if i really would want to have seen this country if it didnt happen.
You're right about the cars, but please note that the government did encourage private lenders to extend credit to 'everybody.' I do agree with you and I believe that unregulated capitalism is the real problem.

Why should private insurance make money off of my health? Let's be serious...
 8 years ago '04        #31
JBeezy 1 heat pts
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 toro4574 said:
So if this is your take on that jimbo i guess it was the government's idea to take down the towers so gov't can take away or right to privacy i.e the patriot act?. It looks like it was the lack of govt supervision that got us into this mess. (private mortgage lenders raping people) And the gov't intervention was just to help this country from crumbling under private companies greed. The gov't didnt tell the auto companies to produces H1,H2,H3, the government didnt give out these NinJA loans (no income, no job, no a.sset) it was the banks. Therefore unfortunately the govt has to intervene. I was def not saying that they should have, but all i see is what has came out of it.. I Dont know if i really would want to have seen this country if it didnt happen.
Close your eyes, open them up and take another look.

FACT: The FEDS forced banks to give loans to people who couldn't afford them.
FACT: The FEDS used taxpayer money to prop up businesses that would have otherwise failed as a result of the free market, which would have made room for companies and management who knew what the fu*k they were doing.
FACT: The FEDS have let their spending get out of control. Taxation is too high, borrowing is too high and they've devalued the dollar with a bunch of inflation to pay for their unconstitutional spending.
 07-28-2009, 11:02 PM         #32
Jimbo 
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These people in here actually trust the government, it's crazy... they actually want the federal government to have more power over them.

The founding fathers are rolling in their graves right about now...
 07-28-2009, 11:40 PM         #33
specialaok 
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simply put, Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security are all poorly run and theres fear of bankruptcy. how the fu*k can the government take care of everyone when they cant handle a small portion of the population? fu*k you Obama, have fun on your vacation.
 8 years ago '04        #34
BunDLeZ 
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 Jimbo said:
Seems like most of you kids on here will never get it.

The main point here is the government grabbing more power and being able to tell you what to do.

This is supposed to be a free country, where the central federal government stays the fu*k out of it's citizens lives, but Americans are slowly forgetting about these types of principles. They want the government to baby-sit them and control every aspect of their lives and they won't realize how detrimental it all was until it's too late.
Sad...But True
 8 years ago '04        #35
MosDefinition 19 heat pts19
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i hate to break it to you but most of those things most people dont under the current system you dont get to pick your own doctor if their not apart of your plan if you have prior medical condition insurance companies can refuse to except you or give you insanely high payments

so since most of you are complaining about something that doesnt even exist yet and at this point may not pass what is your idea for changing the system
 8 years ago '04        #36
MosDefinition 19 heat pts19
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 Jimbo said:
Seems like most of you kids on here will never get it.

The main point here is the government grabbing more power and being able to tell you what to do.

This is supposed to be a free country, where the central federal government stays the fu*k out of it's citizens lives, but Americans are slowly forgetting about these types of principles. They want the government to baby-sit them and control every aspect of their lives and they won't realize how detrimental it all was until it's too late.
so genius explain why this didnt pass in 94 then i mean this is all apart of some global conspiracy right so why purposely have something fail 15 years ago just to try and bring it back now i'm dying to be enlightened
 8 years ago '06        #37
G2MC 35 heat pts35
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 unkle said:
Public hospitals, by law, cannot turn away the sick/injured patients regardless if they can pay or not. Only the private hospitals can turn away the uninsured and those who cannot pay. Also we already have medicare and medicaid for the people without their own healthcare.

Plus, medical bills do not affect your credit scores so no one has to declare bankruptcy to pay anything. Most will just walk away from paying at all, hence the high cost of everything medical care. The cost that does not get paid by the treated patients are absorbed into everyone else's bill.
By law public hospitals are only required to stabalize you. Once they've done that then they have no more obligation to your health. People die because public hospitals put band-aids on bullet wounds (figure of speech). Private hospitals are even worse, they can flat at refuse to treat you, which is sickening.

Also, medical bills CAN affect your credit score. Medical facilities sell your debt to collection agencies and those same collection agencies turn around and report your credit as delinquent if they don't get their money when they want it. I know because it happened to me after a car accident (even though they knew that the Car Insurance company was going to pay the bill after the paperwork was settled).




 ThatBytch said:
u have no clue what the fukk is going on......................socialized health care in canada is a.ss, u might fukk around and die waiting on a life saving surgery but in the us u can not have a damn dollar and get the surgery anyway because they cant refuse care

u need a fukking break to pick up a fukking book and actually learn something before making dumb a.ss comments

It's possible that you could die waiting to get a life saving surgery in Canada (which isn't something that happens often, infact I don't think I've actually heard of a specific case where this had happen, I'm not saying that it hasn't I just haven't heard that it has). However you could die in America just by being DENIED for the life saving surgery that you need because you don't have the money to pay for it and your insurance company won't pay for the procedure (this HAS happened on numerous occasions). Atleast in Canada (and other socialized countries) you have a chance to survive because you're already approved for the surgery. I'd rather take my chances waiting than being flat out denied. Besides, from what I understand the waiting period in Canada is greatly over exaggerated.

The only problem I have is not being able to choose my own doctor. I don't want to get stuck with some shmuck straight out of some third rate medical school who wouldn't know a scapal from a butter knife if you jammed it in his left eye socket, all because my goverment feels like they need to tell me where to get my medical care from.

sh*t if I'm not mistaken every other country with socialzed health care that I know of (there could be others I don't know about) allows their citizens to choose what doctor they want to see. I could be wrong, but if we're going to do it, then lets do it right.


Last edited by G2MC; 07-29-2009 at 02:01 AM..
 07-29-2009, 02:00 AM         #38
UrbanLegend 
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Typical editorial by a person that hasn't lived struggling to pay for his own health care.
 8 years ago '06        #39
G2MC 35 heat pts35
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 UrbanLegend said:
Typical editorial by a person that hasn't lived struggling to pay for his own health care.
Are you talking about me or the article?
 8 years ago '06        #40
G2MC 35 heat pts35
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 ThatBytch said:
[COLOR="White"]It's possible that you could die waiting to get a life saving surgery in Canada (which isn't something that happens often, infact I don't think I've actually heard of a specific case where this had happen, I'm not saying that it hasn't I just haven't heard that it has). [/COLOR]

it has happened and more often than u think thats why canadians come to the us to get medical coverage that'll take forever in canada

However you could die in America just by being DENIED for the life saving surgery that you need because you don't have the money to pay for it and your insurance company won't pay for the procedure (this HAS happened on numerous occasions).

if the surgery is truly life saving you will get it, do u know how many illegal aliens and non insurance having muthafukkas get surgery on a daily basis in the states c'mon now stop making shyt up and i know cause i see it on a regular basis at work

Atleast in Canada (and other socialized countries) you have a chance to survive because you're already approved for the surgery.
and again it aint all about approval, what good is being approved for surgery in january if u cant have it until august but yo a.ss die in april waiting for some shyt already approved.....stupid right, well thats that govt run health care I'd rather take my chances waiting than being flat out denied.

Besides, from what I understand the waiting period in Canada is greatly over exaggerated.

The only problem I have is not being able to choose my own doctor. I don't want to get stuck with some shmuck straight out of some third rate medical school who wouldn't know a scapal from a butter knife if you jammed it in his left eye socket, all because my goverment feels like they need to tell me where to get my medical care from
.

agreed

sh*t if I'm not mistaken every other country with socialzed health care that I know of (there could be others I don't know about) allows their citizens to choose what doctor they want to see. I could be wrong, but if we're going to do it, then lets do it right.

hell no

 ThatBytch said:

and for those idiots saying u cant choose your doctor now, stfu, yea u can even if u have medicaid/medicare and yes hmo's allow u to choose also, it all depends on which plan u choose and/or what type of premium u select, folks need to stop lying, if yall dont know what the hell u talking bout just dont say shyt
I've met MANY Canadians during my life time and although they do migrate down here, they do it seasonally and it has nothing to do with our health insurance at all. They just love coming down here for the atmosphere.
Infact it's quite the opposite, many Americans go up there to get health care service. My mothers side of the family is from Detroit and they all say the samething. Want cheap meds and good healthcare? Cross the border. Americans do it all the time.
As far as "people dying because they're waiting too long to get health care" until you show me the fact sheets supporting this statement your argument there is moot.
You can take your chances with being denied, but I'd rather take a gamble on waiting to be seen. It's been well documented that a stageringly large number of individuals have died from their illnesses, not because they were incurable but because these individuals couldn't afford to pay for the treatment and their insurance companies had denied their claim. Meanwhile I'm still waiting on the reports that suggest any number of people have died as a result of "waiting too long" to receive treatment.
If your only hope for survival is relying on the US health care system to save your life, then I suggest you bust a John Q. cause that's about the only way you'll get the surgery if you can't afford it.
The reason I bring it up is because while my the movie might have been highly dramtatized in a certain sense it still brings to light my point. Hospitals in America would rather let a child die then foot the bill for the treatment. And that's reality.
You could say that public hospitals will take care of you but only to a certain extent. Like i said before, their only job is to stablize you to the point where they can bounce your a.ss out of there as soon as possible. Pedro the illegal immigrant might get shot and get stiched up but right after that he's getting shipped out and it's up to him to come back two weeks later and wait in the ER line again while hoping to be seen so that he can get the wound checked out to make sure that he didn't accuire an infection after the stiches.
Basically they only put them in and if you're lucky take them out (because there have been instances where patients were forced to take out their own stitches) and any tending too between that time period is up to pedro and his family.
Where as if Pedro had a decent health care provider they would not only put in the stitches but schedule follow up appointments to make sure the healing process is going well and he'll be tended to as needed.
And let's not forget that Pedro only gets the stitches if it's a matter of life and death and it's the cheapest possible means of rectifying the situation, because if Pedro doesn't have an insurance provider, can't afford to pay the bill, and it isn't absolutely imperitive that he get it, then he won't be treated. And even then, that's only with certain conditions. Because there are certain conditions that hospitals won't treat even if it is a matter of life or death. Just like there are hospital that won't treat you if you can't get the paperwork filled out, so if you're unconcious and you have no available next of kin you'll pretty much be sh*t out of luck.
And no, a lot of HMO's don't allow you to choose your own doctor because they want a doctor whos' going precribe the least expensive treatment available even if it's not in the best interests of the patient. There are HMO's that DO allow you to choose, but you'd be lucky if you could afford it because your premiums will be through the roof, if they even accept you at all. You said it yourself, it all depends on the plan that you choose and most people can't afford this quality plans.

So where does that leave us off at?

One last thing, it seems like you're taking the comments in this forum a bit too personal. chill
.


Last edited by G2MC; 07-29-2009 at 04:03 AM..
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