Why are MJ fans okay with the thought of Lebron being "as good" as him but not Kobe?

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 8 years ago '04        #121
dre03 
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 braided_uppimp said:
Kobe is close and like 3-4 years of surpassing him, if Kobe's next 3-4 years be as successful as last season then it will be Kobe > Jordan and i can give a f*** with with anyone says, i'd go on ESPN and say it Stephen A. Smith style
that would mean it would take Kobe 17 to 18 years to accomplish what Jordan did in 13 years... How is that better?? The only thing Kobe could ever surpass Jordan in is Rings... And Jordan isnt even the player with the most rings in history... So please tell me what can Kobe accomplish to make him better than Jordan??

He wont surpass Jordan's avg in any statistical category that matters
He will not surpass Jordan in MVP's
He will not surpass Jordan in individual awards
He will not surpass Jordan in records owned

I mean u guys always see it as us Jordan fans being unreasonable when we say Kobe cannot be better than Jordan but you guys are never able to show how he could possibly be better... Nobody is talking about talent or what the two are able to do regardless of talent you are measured on what you achieve...

And the only thing Kobe can do at this point in his career is win more rings... But to do it in more years is less impressive... Even Magic won 5 rings in 12 years... Which is also better than Bryant... having the luxury to play longer to accomplish more is not a good thing in my book... I base it off what did you do in the same timeframe as the other player... After Lebrons 13th year if he hasnt surpassed Jordan he no longer can IMO...

Magic is the closest thing to Jordan's greatness... Kobe is the closest to Jordan's talent if not better and LEbron is definitely more talented then all 3 of them with potential to be the best but to this point is behind the curve...
 8 years ago '07        #122
joshdogg26 193 heat pts193
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 A.O.™ said:
D-Whistle got a lil 15ft jump shot... thats not a jimmy.. Its decent range lets just say I'm not impressed.



Cause you don't agree doesn't make me retarded, just means you have a different opinion. Dumb a.ss...
kobe shoots 43.9% on 2-point jumpers and wade shoots 43.1%...lebron is at 37.5%
 8 years ago '05        #123
Sheeed 1 heat pts
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 joshdogg26 said:
kobe shoots 43.9% on 2-point jumpers and wade shoots 43.1%...lebron is at 37.5%
D-Wade shoots consistently around the 20ft range...so I don't know why homey acting like his jumper is broke....if d-wade jumper isn't impressive then lebrons is laughable at best
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 8 years ago '05        #124
Sheeed 1 heat pts
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Kobe leading shaq to the finals sounds as valid as the blind man leading the seeing eye dog....
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 8 years ago '04        #125
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 Sheeed said:
Kobe leading shaq to the finals sounds as valid as the blind man leading the seeing eye dog....
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That may be true, but are these sidekick numbers?

But let me bring you from stats from the other 4 seasons they were together..

00-01 - First round (Portland)
25/7.7ast/4.3reb/2.3stl on .481 shooting

00-01 - 2nd round (Sacramento)
35/9reb/4.3ast on .473 shooting

00-01 - Conf. Finals (San Antonio)
33.3/7reb/7ast/1.5stl on .514 shooting

01-02 - First round (Portland)
25.2/5.5/5.5/1.5stl on .470 shooting

01-02 - 2nd round (San Antonio)
26.2/5.4reb/4.8 on .455 shooting (Shaq had a bad scoring series...21.4/12.2 on .447)

01-02 - Conf. Finals (Sacramento)
27.1/6.3reb/4ast on .420 shooting

02-03 - First Round (Minnesota)
30/6.9reb/5.9ast on .451 shooting

02-03 - 2nd round (San Antonio)
32.3/5/3.7 on .434 shooting

So yes Shaq was still the main guy on that team.. but Kobe was hardly dispensable ...
 8 years ago '05        #126
Sheeed 1 heat pts
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 str8_akademiks said:
That may be true, but are these sidekick numbers?

But let me bring you from stats from the other 4 seasons they were together..

00-01 - First round (Portland)
25/7.7ast/4.3reb/2.3stl on .481 shooting

00-01 - 2nd round (Sacramento)
35/9reb/4.3ast on .473 shooting

00-01 - Conf. Finals (San Antonio)
33.3/7reb/7ast/1.5stl on .514 shooting

01-02 - First round (Portland)
25.2/5.5/5.5/1.5stl on .470 shooting

01-02 - 2nd round (San Antonio)
26.2/5.4reb/4.8 on .455 shooting (Shaq had a bad scoring series...21.4/12.2 on .447)

01-02 - Conf. Finals (Sacramento)
27.1/6.3reb/4ast on .420 shooting

02-03 - First Round (Minnesota)
30/6.9reb/5.9ast on .451 shooting

02-03 - 2nd round (San Antonio)
32.3/5/3.7 on .434 shooting

So yes Shaq was still the main guy on that team.. but Kobe was hardly dispensable ...
Yea definetly not dispensable....but at that moment in time replacable with another good swingmen of that time....not quite the same today....as in the only other swigman that could win it all with kobe's team may be lebron....and emphasis on the may because without the shooters he has on the cava I don't know how effective that hold he ball for 20 secs then drive and dish offense will be...
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 8 years ago '04        #127
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 Sheeed said:
Yea definetly not dispensable....but at that moment in time replacable with another good swingmen of that time....not quite the same today....as in the only other swigman that could win it all with kobe's team may be lebron....and emphasis on the may because without the shooters he has on the cava I don't know how effective that hold he ball for 20 secs then drive and dish offense will be...
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I mean, really there weren't any elite wing players at that time besides Kobe and T-Mac..
Maybe you can throw Vince Carter in there but dude has always been a loser. Honestly I can't think of anyone else who was that close.. Maybe my memory is letting me down though.
 8 years ago '07        #128
joshdogg26 193 heat pts193
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 Sheeed said:
D-Wade shoots consistently around the 20ft range...so I don't know why homey acting like his jumper is broke....if d-wade jumper isn't impressive then lebrons is laughable at best
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i'm sayin!
 8 years ago '07        #129
smj_724 1 heat pts
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 dre03 said:
that would mean it would take Kobe 17 to 18 years to accomplish what Jordan did in 13 years... How is that better?? The only thing Kobe could ever surpass Jordan in is Rings... And Jordan isnt even the player with the most rings in history... So please tell me what can Kobe accomplish to make him better than Jordan??

He wont surpass Jordan's avg in any statistical category that matters
He will not surpass Jordan in MVP's
He will not surpass Jordan in individual awards
He will not surpass Jordan in records owned

I mean u guys always see it as us Jordan fans being unreasonable when we say Kobe cannot be better than Jordan but you guys are never able to show how he could possibly be better... Nobody is talking about talent or what the two are able to do regardless of talent you are measured on what you achieve...

And the only thing Kobe can do at this point in his career is win more rings... But to do it in more years is less impressive... Even Magic won 5 rings in 12 years... Which is also better than Bryant... having the luxury to play longer to accomplish more is not a good thing in my book... I base it off what did you do in the same timeframe as the other player... After Lebrons 13th year if he hasnt surpassed Jordan he no longer can IMO...

Magic is the closest thing to Jordan's greatness... Kobe is the closest to Jordan's talent if not better and LEbron is definitely more talented then all 3 of them with potential to be the best but to this point is behind the curve...
THANK YOU somebody with some damn sense. Exactly why I said he hasn't even surpass magic so how can he be mentioned with Jordan. I think everybody is just looking at kobe's talent instead of both accomplishments and talent. If you compare jordan and kobe's 1st 13yrs in the league how can you put kobe above him, I don't get it.
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Last edited by smj_724; 07-23-2009 at 03:19 PM..
 07-23-2009, 03:20 PM         #130
kingz21 
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And also jordan fans knows Lebron will not be close to MJ so they dont fear him. As for Kobe, he is a lot closer to MJ's legacy and they know he is the closest to MJ. So thats why they are ok with the thought of Lebron being as good as Kobe
 8 years ago '04        #131
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 smj_724 said:
THANK YOU somebody with some damn sense. Exactly why I said he hasn't even surpass magic so how can he be mentioned with MJ. I think everybody is just looking at kobe's talent instead of both accomplishments and talent. If you compare jordan and kobe's 1st 13yrs in the league how can you put kobe above him, I don't get it.
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The 1st 13 years means nothing.. They came into the league under different circumstances at and much different ages.

Kobe was on a good team on an organization that doesn't play rookies, while MJ was a starter and 1st option from day 1.

So to say that because he's played 12 or 13 years that he can't surpass Jordan because of that fact is just like saying nothing he does in the future matters because it's late in his career. Dude is only 30 years old.
When it's all said and done you have to look at a player's entire body of work, not their first 13 years or some asinine metric that some idiot came up with to sell another guy short.
 8 years ago '05        #132
Sheeed 1 heat pts
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 str8_akademiks said:
I mean, really there weren't any elite wing players at that time besides Kobe and T-Mac..
Maybe you can throw Vince Carter in there but dude has always been a loser. Honestly I can't think of anyone else who was that close.. Maybe my memory is letting me down though.
T-mac is probably the front runner....but Vince would have done ok with shaq...Paul pierce was decent... Don't think he could have filled kobe's shoes then....and I'm sure we're forgetting one or two people...
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 8 years ago '06        #133
ginobili 20|m 39 heat pts39
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besides MJ and the pistons that year.... nobody has won a ship without a respectable post player and a beast shooting guard.... till u go back to bird and the celtics and the early 90's pistons

duncan/gin 3 rings
kobe/shaq 3 rings
wade/shaq 1 ring
kobe/gasol 1 ring


I agree jordan hit his prime at the right time.... take in mind a phoenix team with a crack head (dumas) and an overweight center in oliver miller took chicago to a game 6..... and won 2 outta 3 in the chi....... and was a paxson un designed shot from going to a game 7

so I agree wit ak that jordan caught the nba at the right time.... I understand his team wasn't fully ready yet... but he never beat BIRD in a playoff game EVER... even if he dropped 60+

bottom line this argument could go on for days....
 8 years ago '07        #134
smj_724 1 heat pts
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 str8_akademiks said:
The 1st 13 years means nothing.. They came into the league under different circumstances at and much different ages.

Kobe was on a good team on an organization that doesn't play rookies, while MJ was a starter and 1st option from day 1.

So to say that because he's played 12 or 13 years that he can't surpass Jordan because of that fact is just like saying nothing he does in the future matters because it's late in his career. Dude is only 30 years old.
When it's all said and done you have to look at a player's entire body of work, not their first 13 years or some asinine metric that some idiot came up with to sell another guy short.
omg you are tryin so damn hard to defend kobe. Look the reason I say the 1st 13yr does matter is because you stans are already putting him above jordan and sayin when he retires he gonna be ahead of jordan when his career isn't even over yet. If kobe was to retire right now all the stans will say he's better, so yea what kobe did his 1st 13yrs does matter. And you honestly think that if kobe accomplishes what mj did in 13 seasons in 17-18 yrs that's more impressive. C'mon
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 8 years ago '06        #135
hood135 2 heat pts
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D Wade is better than LeBron...why is he left out the conversation? Because MJ fans and LeBron fans are media wh0ores.

He has just as much upside, he's just as skilled, plus he has a championship and finals MVP.

We dont hear about him because these clowns dont know real basketball and believe anything Nike, the media, and the NBA want them to believe.

Bron has a regular season MVP trophy, a trip to the finals, a hand full of all star games, and a scoring title.

Wade has a Finals MVP trophy, a NBA Championship, a hand full of all star games, and a scoring title.

They've been the league the same amount of years. Which rap sheet is better? Wade easy.

Bron aint even 2nd in line. f*** outta here LeBron stans.

And MJ fans, you officially have one more year before this argument takes a serious turn for the worse for you guys. So simmer down.
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 8 years ago '04        #136
wheezyfbaby 9 heat pts
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 ginobili 20 said:
besides MJ and the pistons that year.... nobody has won a ship without a respectable post player and a beast shooting guard.... till u go back to bird and the celtics and the early 90's pistons

duncan/gin 3 rings
kobe/shaq 3 rings
wade/shaq 1 ring
kobe/gasol 1 ring


I agree jordan hit his prime at the right time.... take in mind a phoenix team with a crack head (dumas) and an overweight center in oliver miller took chicago to a game 6..... and won 2 outta 3 in the chi....... and was a paxson un designed shot from going to a game 7

so I agree wit ak that jordan caught the nba at the right time.... I understand his team wasn't fully ready yet... but he never beat BIRD in a playoff game EVER... even if he dropped 60+

bottom line this argument could go on for days....
Are you only referring to big men? Because MJ's post game was beyond respectable. Honestly how many players in the history of the game had a better post game at the guard or big man position? He setup in the high post while Pip facilitated the offense. Agree the pistions didn't have a beast shooting guard, but between Rip and Chauncey they were very solid.


Last edited by wheezyfbaby; 07-23-2009 at 04:19 PM..
 8 years ago '08        #137
Illuminati 194 heat pts194
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Only on Boxden do some of you NEVER get tired of this Kobe bulls*** even in the off season.
 8 years ago '04        #138
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 smj_724 said:
omg you are tryin so damn hard to defend kobe. Look the reason I say the 1st 13yr does matter is because you stans are already putting him above jordan and sayin when he retires he gonna be ahead of jordan when his career isn't even over yet. If kobe was to retire right now all the stans will say he's better, so yea what kobe did his 1st 13yrs does matter. And you honestly think that if kobe accomplishes what mj did in 13 seasons in 17-18 yrs that's more impressive. C'mon
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I'm not trying hard at all..
It's easy to discredit a guy with flawed logic. And who's putting Kobe over Jordan? I'll paypal you $500 right now if you find me saying Kobe is better than MJ or will be better.
Plus, Michael played 15 years, not 13.

I mean really, if Magic didn't have HIV, MJ would have 1 or 2 less titles .. The Lakers made it to the finals with Magic clearly not 100% and quite possibly the s***tiest and most overrated coach the NBA has seen in Mike Dunleavy.


Last edited by A.G; 07-23-2009 at 04:24 PM..
 8 years ago '06        #139
ginobili 20|m 39 heat pts39
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 wheezyfbaby said:
Are you only referring to big men? Because MJ's post game was beyond respectable. Honestly how many players in the history of the game had a better post game at the guard or big man position? He setup in the high post while Pip facilitated the offense. Agree the pistions didn't have a beast shooting guard, but between Rip and Chauncey they were very solid.
no fam, I know jordan has a better post game then any guard maybe ever.. .... I was giving him a compliment by saying, he never had a legitimate inside force...... when no team the last 2 decades, besides the pistons like u said won without the combination of the 2.....

at the same time, jordan was fortunate to catch teams in the east like the pistons and the celtics outta thier prime.... hard to argue that really.... not his fault for the timing.... but dudes like bird, magic, and isiah didn't play in the expansion team era either

houston is the exception to the rule, but hakeem was such an animal in that 2 year span
 8 years ago '04        #140
wheezyfbaby 9 heat pts
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 ginobili 20 said:
no fam, I know jordan has a better post game then any guard maybe ever.. .... I was giving him a compliment by saying, he never had a legitimate inside force...... when no team the last 2 decades, besides the pistons like u said won without the combination of the 2.....

at the same time, jordan was fortunate to catch teams in the east like the pistons and the celtics outta thier prime.... hard to argue that really.... not his fault for the timing.... but dudes like bird, magic, and isiah didn't play in the expansion team era either

houston is the exception to the rule, but hakeem was such an animal in that 2 year span
Ok, I couldn't really tell the tone or direction of the message. What about the 99' Spurs?


Last edited by wheezyfbaby; 07-23-2009 at 04:39 PM..
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