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 9 years ago '05        #121
bklyn 
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Understanding the Rationalizations

Many believers will argue that God had to talk this way in the Old Testament in order to "fit in" with the dominant culture. This, of course, is silly. In Christian mythology, God is the one who created humans and human culture. In addition, a God that condones the beating of slaves and the enslavement of children at any time is an abomination.

A believer might say, "Well, all of those verses are from the Old Testament and no longer apply because of Jesus." This line of rationalization prompts several obvious questions. Why would the Old Testament still be printed in the Bible if Jesus overturned it? Why would God EVER tell us to beat slaves?

The most important thing that this line of rationalization misses is that Jesus specifically states that the laws of the Old Testament still stand. In Matthew 5:18 Jesus says:

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

Then he goes on to say:

Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

According to Jesus, the Old Testament is alive and well. According to Isaiah 40:8, "the word of our God stands forever." The notion that these old testament verses no longer apply is completely untrue according to the Bible. Christians imagine that they "no longer apply" as a way of rationalizing their religion.

Other believers rationalize that God did not write these slavery passages in the Bible. The Bible was somehow corrupted by slave-loving men. In that case, the obvious question to ask yourself is this: If the Bible has been corrupted, how can we possibly know which parts of the Bible came from God and which parts were inserted by primitive men? You have absolutely no way to know.

It is when you start thinking about the Bible in this way that you understand something very important about the Bible. Either the entire Bible really is God's Word, or the entire Bible was written by primitive men with absolutely no input from God. Here is the reason for this very strong dividing line:

If part of the Bible came from God and part came from primitive men, you do not know which is which. You dod not know if Jesus really is resurrected, or if that's just a make-believe story inserted by primitive men. How do you know if God wrote the Ten Commandments or not? If any part of the Bible has been polluted by primitive men, you have to reject the whole thing. There is no way to know who wrote what, so the entire book is invalid.

There really is no middle ground and the Bible has to be an all-or-nothing book. Either the entire Bible came from God, or none of it did.

With this all-or-nothing reality about the Bible now understood, you can see that there are only two possible explanations for the slavery passages in the Bible:

* The Bible is right, and God loves slavery. The entire Bible is God's word, so these slavery passages must be God's word too. The laws in the United States and other modern nations that make slavery illegal defy God's word. Justice Scalia should be promoting slavery in exactly the same way that he promotes the Ten Commandments.

* The Bible condones slavery because the Bible was written by slave-owning men, not by God. God is imaginary.

Chances are that you have a problem with the first explanation. God would not champion the abomination that is slavery. We all know that.

Therefore, what you are left with is the second explanation.
 02-15-2009, 10:03 PM         #122
Zlane  OP
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The problem remains:
These people have their religion hardwired into their neurons.
If they "let go" of the childish fantasy, their whole life really crumbles, and they ot to stand on their own 2 feet and take on the world.
If they just blindly follow religion, they can stay a sheep, with a deluded leader.
All they got to do, is "believe and live" instead of "questioning, researching, learning and getting smarter", the latter is too much work for their poor brains.


Religion is the main cause of almost all evil, all setbacks of humanity.
If the psychological phenomena called "religion" never came into existence n infected the world, we wold probably live in year 20 000 by now.
 9 years ago '05        #123
bklyn 
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Contemplate the contradictions

A thoughtful person who thinks about God cannot help but notice the amazing contradictions. They are everywhere you look.

Here is one very simple example. On the day Moses comes down from Mount Sinai with the stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments, he discovers that the Israelites have created a golden calf. To punish the people, Moses gathers a group of men and takes the following action in the book of Exodus, Chapter 32:

Then he [Moses] said to them, "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each k!lling his brother and friend and neighbor.' " The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.

So... one minute we have God carving into stone, "Thou shalt not k!ll." Then the next minute we have God telling each man to strap a sword to his side and lay waste to thousands. Wouldn't you expect the almighty ruler of the universe to be slightly more consistent than this? 3,000 dead people is a lot of commandment breaking. Obviously that is a total contradiction. The reason why you find contradictions like that in the Bible is because God is imaginary.
 02-15-2009, 10:22 PM         #124
Zlane  OP
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Ofcourse god is imaginary, but that doesn't matter.
A delusion can't be beaten by logic, evidence or truth.
Tell a schizophrenic who is hallucinating aliens that aliens doesn't exist, impossible.

There are over 400 contradictions in the bible, does it matter? NO
Nothing anyone can do, can save these people from retardation.
There is a direct link between belief in God and low IQ.
 9 years ago '04        #125
uncfan888 5 heat pts
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i hope you didn't type all that for this thread and you copied and pasted it.... i'm sure there's something better you can be doing. i just don't get what the arguing between christians and atheists is all about... neither one is going to change their mind regardless of what the other says
 02-15-2009, 11:00 PM         #126
Zlane  OP
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 uncfan888 said:
i hope you didn't type all that for this thread and you copied and pasted it.... i'm sure there's something better you can be doing. i just don't get what the arguing between christians and atheists is all about... neither one is going to change their mind regardless of what the other says

Well fundamentalists(christians) can't be helped, true.
However poor kids who involuntary was brought up in a household where they were indoctrinated, you can help them see the light.
There is a lot of people who will say they are christians, but if given the right material and if they are bright enough quickly would see it for the fairytale it is.

You can kind of compare it to the racist issue.
Many racists were beyond "saving", no matter how many logical points you gave them that people of other skin is really no different from themselves didnt help them realize it.
However there were also many who really wasn't racist, they were just brought up believing different color meant different minds, but once they got to see the facts for themselves(hanging out with people of different skin colour) they realized that ofcourse there is no difference and racism isn't justified by any evidence.
 9 years ago '04        #127
moneytime 
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lol....awww man
 02-16-2009, 12:08 AM         #128
JerseyLegend  OP
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 Zlane said:
There is a direct link between belief in God and low IQ.
:laughing0:

that sh*t was funny
 9 years ago '04        #129
persuazion 2 heat pts
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 Zlane said:
The problem remains:
These people have their religion hardwired into their neurons.
If they "let go" of the childish fantasy, their whole life really crumbles, and they ot to stand on their own 2 feet and take on the world.
If they just blindly follow religion, they can stay a sheep, with a deluded leader.
All they got to do, is "believe and live" instead of "questioning, researching, learning and getting smarter", the latter is too much work for their poor brains.


Religion is the main cause of almost all evil, all setbacks of humanity.
If the psychological phenomena called "religion" never came into existence n infected the world, we wold probably live in year 20 000 by now.
exactly, and thats why I have such a problem with people taking their toddlers to church and installing that crap in them at such a young age.......they never even have a chance to think for themselves....then by the time they are old enough to realize that its bullsh*t....they just stay quiet about it because they dont want to upset their family and friends......
 02-16-2009, 08:04 AM         #130
whoismikesuh  OP
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let this sh*t die out anyways
this is useless if people wanna find God
they find God for themselves
obviously some people are hard on their beliefs
or disbelief as it goes for the atheists/agnostics
either way no one's religion is changing after this conversation
so what the fu*k are you proving? typing essays to maybe
get a second of our thought is useless because we believe what we believe and i wont hate you for what you think is real
this sh*t is getting way out of hand and all sides of the board is on that level.. every time there is a religious topic posted on this damn site someone smart has to go out and try to convert somebody on a fu*kin internet site..if your gonna let people know do it in the real world, cuz the fu*king internet dont mean sh*t... get a fu*kin life
 9 years ago '05        #131
bklyn 
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it actually isnt useless to talk about it, it needs to be talked about, its a very important issue
 02-16-2009, 11:18 AM         #132
Zlane  OP
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 whoismikesuh said:
let this sh*t die out anyways
this is useless if people wanna find God
they find God for themselves
obviously some people are hard on their beliefs
or disbelief as it goes for the atheists/agnostics
either way no one's religion is changing after this conversation
so what the fu*k are you proving? typing essays to maybe
get a second of our thought is useless because we believe what we believe and i wont hate you for what you think is real
this sh*t is getting way out of hand and all sides of the board is on that level.. every time there is a religious topic posted on this damn site someone smart has to go out and try to convert somebody on a fu*kin internet site..if your gonna let people know do it in the real world, cuz the fu*king internet dont mean sh*t... get a fu*kin life

Your attitude would have us living in the dark ages still man.
Man wake the fu*kup, Obama got elected.
First half-black president, a miletsone for the death of racism.
According to your logic, trying to convince racists their beliefs are wrong, are not something you should do.
So basically, you codone racism.
That's what I love about you redneck closeminded fu*ks, you reallly really believe you got a argument that makes sense, but as soon as someone throws it back at you, you get all sensitive and start handwaving some irrelevant BS.
 02-16-2009, 12:57 PM         #133
AlexG1989  OP
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Refer to the prior post or provide some sort of evidence that I'm wrong or shut up because your post contributed nothing to this thread.

So far HHS is the only person who argued with me that I give any credit to. You guys could learn something from him.
I don't argue with you because I've already read your same arguments from many other theists and quite frankly you all say the same exact thing... And judging from the simple fact you think this country was founded as "a christian nation" proves to me you don't know jacksh*t about what you're talking about... So why would I bother continuing this argument with you???

You look dumb as fu*k man seriously. When was the bible written? Do you think they had all the knowledge about the shape of the earth and dinosaurs and all that sh*t? Of course not. So why the fu*k would you expect a book written 1000s of years ago, to explain society and the world as we know it today?
because supposedly it was God's book... and if we shouldn't expect these people who wrote the bible to know even a fraction of what we know now, why the fu*k should we use a book written by them as some sort of guide book and sh*t???
Did you not read anything I wrote?

Again you're entire argument is wong because of two words.

FREE CHOICE

so what do you say about that.
Free choice aka Freewill doesn't exist if God is omniscient, which he supposedly is. Do you ever even fu*king think of what you're saying?

Why don't you go tell 90% of the world that you're right and they're wrong because they believe in a God.
the entire world believed that the sun, and all the planets in the solar system orbited around the earth except for one man, and who was right??? So the number of people who believe in something don't mean sh*t...
 02-16-2009, 01:18 PM         #134
whoismikesuh  OP
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 Zlane said:
Your attitude would have us living in the dark ages still man.
Man wake the fu*kup, Obama got elected.
First half-black president, a miletsone for the death of racism.
According to your logic, trying to convince racists their beliefs are wrong, are not something you should do.
So basically, you codone racism.
That's what I love about you redneck closeminded fu*ks, you reallly really believe you got a argument that makes sense, but as soon as someone throws it back at you, you get all sensitive and start handwaving some irrelevant BS.
im a redneck? youve got to be fu*kin sh*ttin me
im sayin it is pointless to argue about this sh*t on an internet site
your on some sh*t if you think its anymore than that
 9 years ago '04        #135
~G~ 
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If you believe in god you might as well believe in Santa Claus & The Tooth Fairy..
 9 years ago '04        #136
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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 AlexG1989 said:
I don't argue with you because I've already read your same arguments from many other theists and quite frankly you all say the same exact thing... And judging from the simple fact you think this country was founded as "a christian nation" proves to me you don't know jacksh*t about what you're talking about... So why would I bother continuing this argument with you???
And all you athiests say the same thing. If there is a God why do we have cancer, why is there war, why don't I have winning lotto numbers, etc. And yes this country was founded upon Christian ideals. Do some research man fu*k.



 AlexG1989 said:
because supposedly it was God's book... and if we shouldn't expect these people who wrote the bible to know even a fraction of what we know now, why the fu*k should we use a book written by them as some sort of guide book and sh*t???
And when was the Qur'an written huh? Again, all you athiests try to bash Christianity more than any other religion. So you must be scared of something.

Again your ultimate failure is thinking that the bible is a litteral text that should be taken at face value and everything in it is exactly as it is interpreted. Again, symbolism is a major part. You have to actually think critically instead of blindly listening to a story. An athiest can't understand unless they have actually had faith, because your interpretation of a relationship with God is nowhere close to what mine is.


 AlexG1989 said:
Free choice aka Freewill doesn't exist if God is omniscient, which he supposedly is. Do you ever even fu*king think of what you're saying?
You obviously have not read a slight portion of the bible because a cornerstone of Christianity is freewill. So you saying that there's no such thing as free will makes you look like an ignorant a**hole. Learn about what you're trying to agrue about before you start to debate.



 AlexG1989 said:
the entire world believed that the sun, and all the planets in the solar system orbited around the earth except for one man, and who was right??? So the number of people who believe in something don't mean sh*t...
WRONG AGAIN. If by entire world, you mean medieval Europe, you're right. But ancient Chinese and many other civilizations around the world didn't believe that. So fu*k outa here with your middle school history lesson.


My only question to you, is why you waste so much effort trying to disprove the existance of a being you don't even believe in?

You seriously have nothing better to do or what?

You make a weak a.ss argument. Same as all these other losers on here. Why don't you and the guy who posted the article, "The most important question we can ask in 2009 is why doesn't God heal amputees" go sit and talk about how there's nothing bigger than yourself. And that there is no point to life, no reason for being. Maybe that will make you two feel a little better about yourselves.


Last edited by ItAlY2BkLyN; 02-16-2009 at 01:50 PM..
 9 years ago '04        #137
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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Honestly I'm done with this thread. I was gonna be done before but I figured I would reply to your one last post. Yes you can feel special. Now I'm outa here so don't expect another response. If you have something intelligent to say you can pm me.
 9 years ago '06        #138
mobb789 
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before I say anything i just wanna point out that there are a good amount of people who are ignorant to religion JUST like many people who r ignorant to atheism...too many people in here r atheist without even thinking about beliefs and looking into other things just like too many people in here r christian without looking into their religion.
However I have made a personal desicion for christ and believe wholeheartedly in the bible.
Im posting bc im tired of people acting like this stuff doesnt matter, like its stupid to talk about this stuff. Get real man, u cant just ignore god and this argument and hope it goes away. The more u say "this is stupid" the more obvious it is that u arent stable enough in ur own beliefs to first off argue and second off contemplate the fact u might actually be wrong for once in your life.
Another thing: calling god a "fantasy". Look at creation with an open mind and tell me that luck created it and even not being a christian im going to call u an idiot. What a ridiculous explanation for life. Also its funny how atheists like to stay away from talking about christ considering no one has yet found his body anywhere. Consider this, christs apostles were ALL brutally murdered as martyrs for christ. Why would they give their lifes to protect something that was a lie? Not one of them backed down, not one. Honestly there is too much evidence for christ and for god. Yes, religion itself can be corrupting and false, but the bible is not.
 02-16-2009, 02:25 PM         #139
AlexG1989  OP
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And all you athiests say the same thing. If there is a God why do we have cancer, why is there war, why don't I have winning lotto numbers, etc. And yes this country was founded upon Christian ideals. Do some research man fu*k.
The founding fathers were secular, and preferred a nation not be ruled by religion. They believed religion should stay far away from politics, and what we have today is definately not what they envisioned.

I don't recall ever asking "if there is a God why do we have cancer"... but lets go into that... If there is a God, and he is supposedly perfect, and never makes mistakes then why are there children born with more than one of same limb? Or why are there cases of kids being born with a foot in their brain?... I mean, if God is perfect don't you think he would've caught those mistakes before letting the children be born?

And when was the Qur'an written huh? Again, all you athiests try to bash Christianity more than any other religion. So you must be scared of something.
What does this have to do with anything? You're a christian right? If you were a Muslim I'd be talking about your Muslim religion. Religions are all the same to me, Christianity, Islam... its all bullsh*t to me....

Again your ultimate failure is thinking that the bible is a litteral text that should be taken at face value and everything in it is exactly as it is interpreted. Again, symbolism is a major part. You have to actually think critically instead of blindly listening to a story. An athiest can't understand unless they have actually had faith, because your interpretation of a relationship with God is nowhere close to what mine is.
Well, how come you and your christian buddies can't decide on whether the bible is to be taken literally or not???... I've come across christians who believe everything in the bible from the worldwide flood, to people living 900 years is literal fu*king fact... Some say yes, its all true, and all needs to be taken literally, then theres christians like you who say nope... (cuz u realize how fu*king ridiculous the stories are) and say there not all to be taken literally... I mean, Make up your fu*king minds... I would never ever even entertain the thought of joining an organization as divided as christianity...

oh and... I have believed in God... I'm 20... I've only been an Agnostic and atheist for maybe a little over a year... Though I always questioned, even when I was a little kid. When I was in fifth grade, I remember my teacher, who claimed to be a prophet and that God spoke to her, said God must come first... You must love God more than you love your parents... When I was a kid, that stuck with me and I always questioned it... My parents were always with me, but where the fu*k was god??? What the fu*k makes him deserving of my love? I didn't think that then, but now I see all the bullsh*t...

You obviously have not read a slight portion of the bible because a cornerstone of Christianity is freewill. So you saying that there's no such thing as free will makes you look like an ignorant a**hole. Learn about what you're trying to agrue about before you start to debate.
Actually, I've read the first few pages of Genesis... I tried being open minded, but the awful writing and obviously made up creation story just turned me the fu*k off...

Actually, you obviously have never thought about this... It doesn't matter that it says in the bible that there's freewill, it made a mistake... Freewill doesn't exist in a universe governed by an omniscient God... It is impossible, in other words, it can't exist. If God is real, and he's omniscient, then choice is nothing but an illusion...

My only question to you, is why you waste so much effort trying to disprove the existance of a being you don't even believe in?
Why waste your time trying to prove his existence when you know he exists? Do you seriously have nothing better to do?

You make a weak a.ss argument. Same as all these other losers on here. Why don't you and the guy who posted the article, "The most important question we can ask in 2009 is why doesn't God heal amputees" go sit and talk about how there's nothing bigger than yourself. And that there is no point to life, no reason for being. Maybe that will make you two feel a little better about yourselves.
Well, there is no point to life... you're born, you live, you eat, you sh*t, you p!ss and then you die (just like any other animal in the world)...
 02-16-2009, 02:27 PM         #140
AlexG1989  OP
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Why would they give their lifes to protect something that was a lie?
same reason all those people at Jamestown gave their lives because Jim Jones said so...
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