michael jordan's competition...?

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 9 years ago '06        #141
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
Half the time I post on this board and make more money than your parents combined...

That's life
haha i know ur lieing cause u felt the need to defend urself...hahahahaha


broke a.ss f*g**t

p.s. now i know why u know nothing about sh*t.U must be a youngin...talkin bout parents.WTF?I live my girl and my son...for you to say somethin like that u must actually live with ur parents
 9 years ago '06        #142
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 irhabi007 said:
I am prepared for the hate, but I only come to speak the truth.

YOu all come in here and talk about how dominating Jordan was but at the same time he won nothing until Bird and Magic faded.

Dropping names like...



Jordan dominated a weaker era. The 80s had more talent than the 90s. Jordan didn't start winning till the great 80s teams faded with age and injury and the addition of expansion teams further weakened the league. I find it hard to believe Jordan would have 6 rings if he came into the league with Bird and Magic.

Fact...Jordan vs Bird in the playoffs 0-6.


I think Bird played harder than Jordan. I didn't see Jordan sacrificing his body for the loose ball the way Bird did and I believe the 80s teams (as a whole) played harder and better team ball than in the 90s. Jordan ruined the definition of team play in the 90s. It's now recovering and the teams are playing great again. This year is the best we've had in years thanks to guys like Chris Paul etc...

Something missing here (the 80s). Jordan's greatest competition was against a prime Larry Bird and Magic Johnson but he won nothing during this time (his first 6 years in the league). His playoff record against Bird 0 - 6. He wasn't good enough to get past Bird to even have the chance to play against Magic in the Finals or showtime (in their prime) would have destroyed the Bulls. So in reality MJ lost to the best competition.

Bird and the Celtics never had any problems beating the Bulls with Jordan. Not even worried about Jordan upsetting Bird's Celtics. Jordan would hog the ball and score 40s to 60s (while losing) and Bird would do everything else and win the game. Magic was the guy that Celtics fans feared not Jordan.

My answer to this thread....NO Jordan is not the best ever. Bird, Magic and Oscar are the 3 best all around players. I might be a die hard Celts fan and Bird was my favorite, but even I am not such the homer to say he was the GOAT. That honor goes to Wilt Chamberlain the most dominating player the game will ever see.




So what's this talk about Wilt not being able to dominate in today's league?

If you recall the pace of the game is much slower today. If Jordan would have played back then he would have been awesome, however, the pace of the game was so much faster that he could have never kept pace to match those numbers. One season Wilt played nearly EVERY SECOND of an entire season under double and triple teams every night. How would Shaq or any player handle those minutes under double team? Even Shaq has to pass out on the double and triple and gets tired.

LOL Believe it or not that is the truth. How can you rate MJ the greatest player if you haven't see all the greats to compare him to? The answer is simple, Wilt Chamberlain and if you can say someone was more dominating....that's a homer.

I won't even get started with Bill Russell.
well considering bridand magic have both called mike God on the court and said themsleves he's the best ever....ur down to robertson and wilt

but hey i will say this...u atleast make valid points and come with some facts unlike these kobe stans who are fu*kin delusional
 9 years ago '04        #143
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
no i don't need some guy to come up with a way to calculate everything into one for me to figure out who is good and who is not...there are different aspects to everything in the game...something you can't comprehend.If somedboy shoots 50% from the feild,35% from the 3pt line,and 45% from free throw line i don't need somebody to calculate into one stat is going to be pretty inaccurate just because somebody has a problem hittin free throws

also there are different positions where true shot percentage just fu*ks everything up.Shaq is the worst shooter eveerrrrrrr but his FG% is beast because he stays in the paint.His free throws is horrible and doesn't shoot 3's...u can analyze these stats and shows how good of a shooter he realy is.Now you do the true shot percentage and because he is so dominant on 1 foot shots shaq has a higher TS% than bird,jordan,kobe,nowitzki,ray allen,dwayne wade....i mean the sh*t is stupid

so youuuu take another loss in life.There are different catagories for stats for a reason....because u have big guys who are EFFICIENT in the lane and you have spot up shooter who are EFFICIENT at 3's and you have ur all around guys who are EFFICIENT at everything...when you put TS in effect it throws all that out the window and puts everyone in one catagory

bottom line it's something for people to feel cool about that they have a TRUER way to calculate how good somebody is....dumbass
Nothing more needs to be said than the last sentence.
At least you got the point.

And as for Shaq, his 3point percentage would be only proportionate to how many he actually shot. If he didn't take many, it doesn't affect his overall percentage. That's the entire reason why the calculation is preferred.
And it's not a measure of how GOOD of a shooter you are, it's efficiency, like I said before.
If a player shoots 48% from the field, 35% from the 3 point like and 90% from the foul line, and another shoots 65% from the field and 50% from the foul line, who's more efficient in how they get their points?
 9 years ago '04        #144
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
haha i know ur lieing cause u felt the need to defend urself...hahahahaha


broke a.ss f*g**t

p.s. now i know why u know nothing about sh*t.U must be a youngin...talkin bout parents.WTF?I live my girl and my son...for you to say somethin like that u must actually live with ur parents
Hardly defending myself. Just stating the fact that I get to be at work and argue with you bums all day and make a nice haul of money at the end of the day.
I just a.ssumed you live with your parents because you speak like an uneducated 12 year old.
And no, I'm not a "youngn" and I don't live with my parents, I have a girl and kid of my own.
 9 years ago '07        #145
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418
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Food for thought...

The all-defensive team was not created until 1969: Russell's final season and Wilt's 10th season. Nobody has ever been successful in disputing that Bill Russell is the greatest defender in NBA history., and had this accolade been available at the beginning of the NBA, then he would have more than anyone in NBA history. This is speculation, but it is not unfounded speculation.

And another thing: Jordan did not deserve an all-defensive team selection after his first retirement. Why? Because it was clear that he had lost a step, which is why Phil Jackson oftentimes put Ron Harper or Scottie Pippen on the opposing team's best scoring guard. This begs a serious question: how could Jordan be declared to an all-defensive team when a washed up Ron Harper (who was never known for defense before playing in Chicago) and a FORWARD, more often than not, had to guard HIS a.ssignments?

The NBA finals MVP award was not created until 1969: again, Russell's final season. Had this award been created sooner, then it is possible that Russell could have just as many as Jordan. Afterall, Russell has just as many regular season MVP awards as Jordan, and he was the most valuable player during the Celtics' 13-year dynastic stretch, so who is to say he wouldn't have six finals MVP awards?

Career average doesn't tell the full story. It is true that Jordan has a slightly higher scoring average than Wilt, but Wilt was the better scorer. Jordan's career high of 37.1 ppg was bested by Wilt on FOUR different occassions. Wilt's 50.4 ppg average will stand forever. Wilt holds the NBA record for most points in a game and season. Wilt has nearly 80 more 50+ point games than Jordan. He scored 70+ points at least six times in his career - a feat Jordan never accomplished.

All-star games: Jordan did not deserve to make the all-star teams with the Wizards. The fans didn't want him in it, and neither did the coaches.

Individual statistical titles: Actually, Wilt led the league in every official category not named free-throw percentage. He is the only player in NBA history to lead the league in four major categories, thus proving he was more versatile than Jordan. Jordan only led the league in scoring.

It is very important to put accolades into perspective (something Jordan fans oftentimes neglect) when comparing players, especially from different eras. Some of the awards in the criteria listed did not come into existence until later (or at all) during the careers of many all-time greats. It is NOT FAIR to use those accomplishments in Jordan's favor and not take into consideration that players of yesteryear did not have the opportunity to experience and achieve them for their entire careers. People need to think about these this point before they crown Jordan as the "greatest of all time."
 9 years ago '06        #146
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
Nothing more needs to be said than the last sentence.
At least you got the point.

And as for Shaq, his 3point percentage would be only proportionate to how many he actually shot. If he didn't take many, it doesn't affect his overall percentage. That's the entire reason why the calculation is preferred.
And it's not a measure of how GOOD of a shooter you are, it's efficiency, like I said before.
If a player shoots 48% from the field, 35% from the 3 point like and 90% from the foul line, and another shoots 65% from the field and 50% from the foul line, who's more efficient in how they get their points?
well the last sentence ur referring to wasn't my thought...i was sayin how u dumbasses see it.You wanna feel you have some superior way to calculate things.I saw a thing before were they said blocks/assists/rebounds weren't right...they had a way of calculating how goo a blocker was based off if if someone had advantages in height and wingspan....lol....wtf?The sh*t is stupid and TS is no different.

and to ur last comment...u just don't get it lol
 9 years ago '06        #147
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
Hardly defending myself. Just stating the fact that I get to be at work and argue with you bums all day and make a nice haul of money at the end of the day.
I just a.ssumed you live with your parents because you speak like an uneducated 12 year old.
And no, I'm not a "youngn" and I don't live with my parents, I have a girl and kid of my own.
well why u are at ur "JOB"...and i say that knowing ur lieing...i'm opening up my second business on march 2nd :greetings10:
 9 years ago '04        #148
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
well why u are at ur "JOB"...and i say that knowing ur lieing...i'm opening up my second business on march 2nd :greetings10:
I'm not at my job.

But usually when I post here I am at my job, using either my blackberry or one of the computers on my floor.

Thanks.
 9 years ago '04        #149
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
well the last sentence ur referring to wasn't my thought...i was sayin how u dumbasses see it.You wanna feel you have some superior way to calculate things.I saw a thing before were they said blocks/assists/rebounds weren't right...they had a way of calculating how goo a blocker was based off if if someone had advantages in height and wingspan....lol....wtf?The sh*t is stupid and TS is no different.

and to ur last comment...u just don't get it lol
Show it to me and I'll believe you.
 9 years ago '06        #150
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
I'm not at my job.

But usually when I post here I am at my job.

Thanks.
suuuuuurrreeee
 9 years ago '06        #151
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
Show it to me and I'll believe you.
lol are u for real?I'm going to look up something i read prolly a year ago because ur too lazy
 9 years ago '08        #152
PEK 16 heat pts16
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 irhabi007 said:
I am prepared for the hate, but I only come to speak the truth.

YOu all come in here and talk about how dominating Jordan was but at the same time he won nothing until Bird and Magic faded.

Dropping names like...



Jordan dominated a weaker era. The 80s had more talent than the 90s. Jordan didn't start winning till the great 80s teams faded with age and injury and the addition of expansion teams further weakened the league. I find it hard to believe Jordan would have 6 rings if he came into the league with Bird and Magic.

Fact...Jordan vs Bird in the playoffs 0-6.


I think Bird played harder than Jordan. I didn't see Jordan sacrificing his body for the loose ball the way Bird did and I believe the 80s teams (as a whole) played harder and better team ball than in the 90s. Jordan ruined the definition of team play in the 90s. It's now recovering and the teams are playing great again. This year is the best we've had in years thanks to guys like Chris Paul etc...

Something missing here (the 80s). Jordan's greatest competition was against a prime Larry Bird and Magic Johnson but he won nothing during this time (his first 6 years in the league). His playoff record against Bird 0 - 6. He wasn't good enough to get past Bird to even have the chance to play against Magic in the Finals or showtime (in their prime) would have destroyed the Bulls. So in reality MJ lost to the best competition.

Bird and the Celtics never had any problems beating the Bulls with Jordan. Not even worried about Jordan upsetting Bird's Celtics. Jordan would hog the ball and score 40s to 60s (while losing) and Bird would do everything else and win the game. Magic was the guy that Celtics fans feared not Jordan.

My answer to this thread....NO Jordan is not the best ever. Bird, Magic and Oscar are the 3 best all around players. I might be a die hard Celts fan and Bird was my favorite, but even I am not such the homer to say he was the GOAT. That honor goes to Wilt Chamberlain the most dominating player the game will ever see.




So what's this talk about Wilt not being able to dominate in today's league?

If you recall the pace of the game is much slower today. If Jordan would have played back then he would have been awesome, however, the pace of the game was so much faster that he could have never kept pace to match those numbers. One season Wilt played nearly EVERY SECOND of an entire season under double and triple teams every night. How would Shaq or any player handle those minutes under double team? Even Shaq has to pass out on the double and triple and gets tired.

LOL Believe it or not that is the truth. How can you rate MJ the greatest player if you haven't see all the greats to compare him to? The answer is simple, Wilt Chamberlain and if you can say someone was more dominating....that's a homer.

Wilt had some great teams as well yet he always lost to Bill Russell. Those early Celtics aren't HOF's w/o Russell. Every other team had chances through draft and trades to acquire talent. If the players around him were so great, then why is the one constant between the Celtics making and missing the playoffs Russell?

Like others said, when did Jordan win his titles? Once Bird, Magic, Kareem, etc. were gone. Just because the players are more athletic and skilled now, doesn't change the fact that Russell dominated an era more than any player ever did. He wasn't playing slouches. West, Baylor, Wilt, Frazier, Greer, to name some of the greats playing at the same time.

Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Oscar
MJ
West
Where do I even begin with this dumb sh*t. How old are you? Gotta be at least 60 since you seen Wilt and Russel in their prime. You say MJ played in a weaker era but didn't say anything about the competition Wilt faced, and you're too dumb to realize that playing at a faster pace boosts stats tremendously. Answer this for me you dumb a.ss bi*ch. Who did the Bulls have to help MJ when he came into the league? Anybody with a brain knows you need a good supporting cast to win, so what did MJ have compared to what the other guys you mentioned. Magic had the GOAT center Kareem, Russell had like 4 other HOF's, Bird had McHale and Parish and others. What did MJ have? MJ started winning when Pippen and Grant developed. And that still doesn't even compare to what other teams had. Do you realize the talent that the Pistons had back then? They had Isiah, Dumars, Dantley who are all in the HOF, Rodman, who should be HOF, Aguire and Laimbeer were both allstars, Vinnie Johnson one of the greatest 6th men ever. So Shut yo stupid a.ss the fu*k up. How many rings did Wilt win? I believe the answer is 2. That aint sh*t compared to what MJ did in a far better era.
 9 years ago '04        #153
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
suuuuuurrreeee
It really doesn't matter if you believe me or not.
You can a.ssume that I'm a 10 year old who hasn't reached high school for all I care.. It isn't going to change the facts.
 philly337 said:
lol are u for real?I'm going to look up something i read prolly a year ago because ur too lazy
Yeah.. I highly doubt something like that exists though.
 9 years ago '06        #154
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
It really doesn't matter if you believe me or not.
You can a.ssume that I'm a 10 year old who hasn't reached high school for all I care.. It isn't going to change the facts.

Yeah.. I highly doubt something like that exists though.
lol yup i just made it up for no reason but to look cool on a meesage board...ur gullible
 9 years ago '07        #155
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418
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 PEK said:
Where do I even begin with this dumb sh*t. How old are you? Gotta be at least 60 since you seen Wilt and Russel in their prime. You say MJ played in a weaker era but didn't say anything about the competition Wilt faced, and you're too dumb to realize that playing at a faster pace boosts stats tremendously. Answer this for me you dumb a.ss bi*ch. Who did the Bulls have to help MJ when he came into the league? Anybody with a brain knows you need a good supporting cast to win, so what did MJ have compared to what the other guys you mentioned. Magic had the GOAT center Kareem, Russell had like 4 other HOF's, Bird had McHale and Parish and others. What did MJ have? MJ started winning when Pippen and Grant developed. And that still doesn't even compare to what other teams had. Do you realize the talent that the Pistons had back then? They had Isiah, Dumars, Dantley who are all in the HOF, Rodman, who should be HOF, Aguire and Laimbeer were both allstars, Vinnie Johnson one of the greatest 6th men ever. So Shut yo stupid a.ss the fu*k up. How many rings did Wilt win? I believe the answer is 2. That aint sh*t compared to what MJ did in a far better era.
True and he won NOTHING during his first 6 or 7 years in the league. Bird turned the Celtics around as a rookie from 29-53 to 61-21 WITHOUT Parish and McHale. Magic's rookie year he won a ring and NO Jabbar in game 7......Bird won a ring in his 2nd year. SO if MJ was winning with no talent on his team in the 90s (as you are a.ssuming) WHY COULDN'T HE WIN IN THE 80s. The answer is simple, he couldn't get past the best. Bird and Magic......MJ vs Bird in the playoffs 0-6.

Pippen was a better defender than Jordan. Pippen was a great finisher and had a good offensive game as well.

You say he beat Magic's team? No Jabbar, No Cooper, No Riley. Magic was no longer at his best. Both Worthy and Scott got injured early in game 3 and never returned the rest of the series. They definitely didn't beat the showtime Lakers of the 80s.

As for Isiah, the Pistons pounded MJs Bulls for a few years while winning back to back. The first year they got past them, Isiah missed close to 50 games with injury that season. He and several players were banged up.

Yes MJ was awesome no doubt but he is not a clear cut pick. If you saw them all I am surprised you are not impressed by Wilt. 50 ppg. 25rbg. Led the league in a.ssist. 20+ blocks in many games. Played all but 8 seconds in a entire season. Never fouled out. Who could beat that?
 9 years ago '06        #156
philly337 20 heat pts20
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and i'm goin to touch up on one more thing for ur dumbass str8

you wanna go by these bullsh*t stats that were just made up to calculate everything into one...since you go by this TS% and u feel it is pretty effective why don't you go by the player efficency rating devolped by the same person which has jordan is at the top of the list.This is basically the QB rating of nba player and jordan is #1.So how do you discredit it now?Since u were just saying that these formulas are the one true way to determine a players effectivness?
 9 years ago '04        #157
djenar 
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without Jordan in the L, there'd be no kobe, lebron, dwade.
he changed the game, they made it better...
 9 years ago '08        #158
PEK 16 heat pts16
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 irhabi007 said:
True and he won NOTHING during his first 6 or 7 years in the league. Bird turned the Celtics around as a rookie from 29-53 to 61-21 WITHOUT Parish and McHale. Magic's rookie year he won a ring and NO Jabbar in game 7......Bird won a ring in his 2nd year. SO if MJ was winning with no talent on his team in the 90s (as you are a.ssuming) WHY COULDN'T HE WIN IN THE 80s. The answer is simple, he couldn't get past the best. Bird and Magic......MJ vs Bird in the playoffs 0-6.

Pippen was a better defender than Jordan. Pippen was a great finisher and had a good offensive game as well.

You say he beat Magic's team? No Jabbar, No Cooper, No Riley. Magic was no longer at his best. Both Worthy and Scott got injured early in game 3 and never returned the rest of the series. They definitely didn't beat the showtime Lakers of the 80s.

As for Isiah, the Pistons pounded MJs Bulls for a few years while winning back to back. The first year they got past them, Isiah missed close to 50 games with injury that season. He and several players were banged up.

Yes MJ was awesome no doubt but he is not a clear cut pick. If you saw them all I am surprised you are not impressed by Wilt. 50 ppg. 25rbg. Led the league in a.ssist. 20+ blocks in many games. Played all but 8 seconds in a entire season. Never fouled out. Who could beat that?
Could wilt put up 50/25 if he played today? If you think so k!ll yourself. Like I already told your stupid a.ss the Celtics, Lakers, and Pistons were all much better teams than the Bulls. Everyone needs help to win and like I already told your retarded a.ss name the supporting cast of the players you mentioned, compared to MJ's.
 9 years ago '06        #159
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 philly337 said:
and i'm goin to touch up on one more thing for ur dumbass str8

you wanna go by these bullsh*t stats that were just made up to calculate everything into one...since you go by this TS% and u feel it is pretty effective why don't you go by the player efficency rating devolped by the same person which has jordan is at the top of the list.This is basically the QB rating of nba player and jordan is #1.So how do you discredit it now?Since u were just saying that these formulas are the one true way to determine a players effectivness?
guess no answer for this lol.....
 9 years ago '04        #160
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
and i'm goin to touch up on one more thing for ur dumbass str8

you wanna go by these bullsh*t stats that were just made up to calculate everything into one...since you go by this TS% and u feel it is pretty effective why don't you go by the player efficency rating devolped by the same person which has jordan is at the top of the list.This is basically the QB rating of nba player and jordan is #1.So how do you discredit it now?Since u were just saying that these formulas are the one true way to determine a players effectivness?
Efficiency rating is developed by a different person.
It's a measure of cumulative stats and that's about it. Doesn't measure defense or anything else.
It's also adjusted to a league average. Therefore it's not an actual measure of individual "efficiency", but a measure of "efficiency" compared to your peers in the same year.
And I use the term efficiency loosely because it gives arbitrary values to certain stats and players who have the offense designed around them where they are ball dominant (eg. dominant centers and pg's) tend to have inflated PER.
TS% gives values to the basket based on how many points it gives you. That's why I think it's valid.
And MJ has a higher TS% than Kobe too so I don't know why you think I've got ulterior motives when I'm discrediting bullsh*t stats. - Since you think the only reason I'm doing this is because I "don't like MJ".


Last edited by A.G; 01-20-2009 at 10:21 PM..
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