michael jordan's competition...?

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 9 years ago '05        #121
GaryIn'75 1 heat pts
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 astroblack9 said:
*sigh*...



hell...if you think about it...60% of no calls in the 80's n 90's would be flagrant 2's nowadays

***close thread***
 9 years ago '04        #122
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 rawproduct03 said:
^^^explain how fg% is irrelevant??? of course mj got to the free throw line in his prime and on top of that he still shot a better fg% then kobe. we're talking about a 38 yo mj who didn't get to the freethrow line as often because he wasn't athletic at age 38 after 5 years retired so im still waiting how fg% doesn't matter???
Because it is a measurement that was brought in before the introduction of the 3 point line and treats all shots equally. It doesn't even take FT% into effect. It's not a valid measure of shooting efficiency by any means.
MJ was a GREAT player, but his scoring as a Wizard is absolutely NOTHING to brag about, and is not even close to being an indicator of his hypothetical performance against a certain era. That's all I'm trying to say.
 9 years ago '06        #123
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
Because it is a measurement that was brought in before the introduction of the 3 point line and treats all shots equally. It doesn't even take FT% into effect. It's not a valid measure of shooting efficiency by any means.
MJ was a GREAT player, but his scoring as a Wizard is absolutely NOTHING to brag about, and is not even close to being an indicator of his hypothetical performance against a certain era. That's all I'm trying to say.
dog ur a dumbass for real...go ahead and get mad and all that but i've seen u in a few of these threads and you're always sayin stats don't matter which is fu*kin retarded since that shows what the player does night in and night out but feild goal %?Really?I mean really?Ur saying feild goal % is irrelevant?And because it doesn't take FT% into effect?A "FREE THROW" with no defender on you which has it's own % which jordan was also good at hahahaha

dog for real just stop.If ur not goin to bring anything into the thread and just discredit it all to fit what u want to believe then keep it to urself.....but really if stats don't mean nothing and championships don't mean nothing and makin the team around you better doesn't mean nothin then how do you judge a player?What they look like?How fast they can run?How good they can speak?Please let me know
 01-20-2009, 08:41 PM         #124
rawproduct03  OP
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 str8_akademiks said:
Because it is a measurement that was brought in before the introduction of the 3 point line and treats all shots equally. It doesn't even take FT% into effect. It's not a valid measure of shooting efficiency by any means.
MJ was a GREAT player, but his scoring as a Wizard is absolutely NOTHING to brag about, and is not even close to being an indicator of his hypothetical performance against a certain era. That's all I'm trying to say.
^^^fg is very relevant, 3 pointers have there own % rating, anybody can just jack up shots and shot 30 something % and score points but there not efficient, fg% is a direct result of efficiency idiot
 9 years ago '04        #125
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 rawproduct03 said:
^^^fg is very relevant, 3 pointers have there own % rating, anybody can just jack up shots and shot 30 something % and score points but there not efficient, fg% is a direct result of efficiency idiot
There are other ratings that are cumulative, idiot.
On their own they don't stand for anything.
 9 years ago '04        #126
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:

dog for real just stop.If ur not goin to bring anything into the thread and just discredit it all to fit what u want to believe then keep it to urself.....but really if stats don't mean nothing and championships don't mean nothing and makin the team around you better doesn't mean nothin then how do you judge a player?What they look like?How fast they can run?How good they can speak?Please let me know
Before you try to put words in other people's mouths, you might wanna remove the p*nis from yours.
 9 years ago '06        #127
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
Before you try to put words in other people's mouths, you might wanna remove the p*nis from yours.
guess i'll go ahead and chall whis up as a W then...just like the other dudes...can't defens enothing,can't bring and facts,can only use sarcasm and talk out ur ur a.ss and think u know something when u got no clue f*g**t a.ss mother fu*ker
 9 years ago '08        #128
PEK 16 heat pts16
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 str8_akademiks said:
Like I said, FG% is irrelevant. And lol @ not being able to control foul calls. MJ was on the line for most of, if not all his career. That excuse isn't gonna work. And yeah, Kobe made 7.9/18, but still averaged 24ppg.
Your point it moot.
I actually respect you more than just about any other Kobe stan on this board, but come on dude. How the fu*k can you FG% is irrelevant? It aint the end all be all of efficiency, but it damn sure matters alot no matter how you try to spin it.
 9 years ago '06        #129
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 PEK said:
I actually respect you more than just about any other Kobe stan on this board, but come on dude. How the fu*k can you FG% is irrelevant? It aint the end all be all of efficiency, but it damn sure matters alot no matter how you try to spin it.
he's a fu*kin idiot that why lol...that's prolly the dumbest thing i've seen on this forum and that's sayin a lot.I'm sure many would agree...it's doesn't get much worse then saying FG% is irrelevant
 9 years ago '04        #130
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 PEK said:
I actually respect you more than just about any other Kobe stan on this board, but come on dude. How the fu*k can you FG% is irrelevant? It aint the end all be all of efficiency, but it damn sure matters alot no matter how you try to spin it.
It's not even a valid measure of efficiency.
FG% has been an impractical measure since the advent of the 3 point line.
Anyone who studies sports statistics will tell you that the more accurate (albeit still not perfect) measure of shooting efficiency is TS%. Some people may even use eFG%.. But NOBODY, I repeat, nobody (even NBA statisticians) uses FG%. I'd tell you how I know this but I don't think you'd believe me anyhow. There are also a lot of compound statistics to measure out how good/efficient of a shooter someone is (rule of 180 comes to mind - FG%+3P%+FT%), but FG% as a standalone is not.


I am a believer in statistics, but not all stats are equally useful.


Last edited by A.G; 01-20-2009 at 09:01 PM..
 9 years ago '05        #131
Da Real Talk 4 heat pts
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 A.O.™ said:
Jordans competition...

Unlike players of todays NBA jordan went up against whole teams and guarded whole teams..

You mention Pippen guarding magic.. fu*k does that matter did you know who Jordan was guarding... a CENTER.. yes 7' Vlade Divac was who mike was guarding..

lets talk about detroit... Jordan guarded either Dumars, Isiah or Rodman (yes Rodman had offensive game back then)

Lets go New yOrk Starks, Harper, Mason, LJ, Ewing, yes Jordan guarded them all...

Lets go New Jersey.. Kendall Gill and company...

How dare you idiots disrespect Mike..

How the fu*k can you even say different Eras...

Kobe, marbury, iverson, Ray allen, KG, all these dudes were locked up when Mike was still playing... Everybody in that 96 Draft was Jordans bi*ch for 2 years, they shining now... the stars of today were all Mikes bi*ches...

questioning Jordans competition... in a NBA of two different natures... The NBA was physical back in the day.. did you ever see Jordan vs Detroit in the playoffs?

Did you ever see a New York vs Chicago playoff series?

Or a Chicago vs Miami series? (even though they alwasy got swept)

Half the fouls Jordan took in his prime are Flagrant 2 now.

But jordan played through it...

Talking about Lebron or Dwayne Wade... these n*ggas aint even that good.. Or take that back... Lebron is that good.. but hes just bigger than everybody else, and hes younger than everybody else... Watch how you talk about Lebron when hes 30, and the copetition catches up to him size,speed, and he meets somebody with his physical traits thats 20-21.. Shiiitttt...


Jordans competition...


Better question when is Kobe going to stop a ERA of legends from getting Rings...

Cause thats what Mike Did... from 1991-1998 when he stopped playing ball.. LEGENDS would retire with no rings... Ewing, Barkley, Gary Payton(bum ring in miami dont count), sh*t a early shaq didnt look like he wasnt going to get sh*t, til he stole Jordans coach, and system. Mitch, Reggie Miller, The whole East coast.. Karl Malone, John Stockton failed twice, and won a combine of 4 games in 2 series.. or maybe 5 the one year chicago lost one game to win the chip at home...

Be fu*king serious... The NBA is wack now that i cant watch the sh*t no more.. everythings a foul, everythings a technical, a hard foul is a flagrant.. sh*t is weak...
Case Closed
 9 years ago '04        #132
A.G 27 heat pts27
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LOL @ Jordan guarding Vlade Divac and Ewing.

Give me a fu*king break.


What next, did Jordan guard Hakeem and Shaq too?
How about Kareem?


Last edited by A.G; 01-20-2009 at 09:04 PM..
 9 years ago '04        #133
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
guess i'll go ahead and chall whis up as a W then...just like the other dudes...can't defens enothing,can't bring and facts,can only use sarcasm and talk out ur ur a.ss and think u know something when u got no clue f*g**t a.ss mother fu*ker
You count your internet W's and L's?













































Chalk that up as an L in life.
 9 years ago '06        #134
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
It's not even a valid measure of efficiency.
FG% has been an impractical measure since the advent of the 3 point line.
Anyone who studies sports statistics will tell you that the more accurate (albeit still not perfect) measure of shooting efficiency is TS%. Some people may even use eFG%.. But NOBODY, I repeat, nobody (even NBA statisticians) uses FG%. I'd tell you how I know this but I don't think you'd believe me anyhow. There are also a lot of compound statistics to measure out how good/efficient of a shooter someone is (rule of 180 comes to mind - FG%+3P%+FT%), but FG% as a standalone is not.


I am a believer in statistics, but not all stats are equally useful.
TS% is about the most retarded fu*kin thing every brought into stats for the nba.It's a million times worse than the nfl QB rating.Have you ever looked at the list and how far down they have great shooters like bird and how high they have other guys who were just mediocre?Anyway even if you wanna go by that jordan was still above kobe's bum a.ss
 9 years ago '06        #135
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
You count your internet W's and L's?













































Chalk that up as an L in life.
hmmmm...18,000 posts...gamertag in ur sig....chalk that up as an L in life


Last edited by philly337; 01-20-2009 at 09:15 PM..
 9 years ago '07        #136
Truth B T0ld 3 heat pts
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 philly337 said:
hmmmm...18,000 posts...gamertag in ur sig....calk that up as an L in life
 9 years ago '04        #137
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
TS% is about the most retarded fu*kin thing every brought into stats for the nba.It's a million times worse than the nfl QB rating.Have you ever looked at the list and how far down they have great shooters like bird and how high they have other guys who were just mediocre?Anyway even if you wanna go by that jordan was still above kobe's bum a.ss
LOL @ you proving your idiocy.
TS% takes into account 3 point shots and free throws. It gives you a cumulative percentage based on your percentage from each and the value of each shot. It's the truest measurement of shooting efficiency we have. The fact that you're defending FG% and calling TS% retarded is laughable. And I've got news for you, retard - being an all time great doesn't mean you have a higher TS%.
And the funny thing is that I didn't say a single thing about Kobe compared to MJ, but you c*nts just can't take it when someone says something negative about your favorite player.
Take this one and chalk it up as another L, bi*ch.
 9 years ago '04        #138
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 philly337 said:
hmmmm...18,000 posts...gamertag in ur sig....chalk that up as an L in life
Half the time I post on this board and make more money than your parents combined...

That's life
 9 years ago '06        #139
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 str8_akademiks said:
LOL @ you proving your idiocy.
TS% takes into account 3 point shots and free throws. It gives you a cumulative percentage based on your percentage from each and the value of each shot. It's the truest measurement of shooting efficiency we have. The fact that you're defending FG% and calling TS% retarded is laughable. And I've got news for you, retard - being an all time great doesn't mean you have a higher TS%.
And the funny thing is that I didn't say a single thing about Kobe compared to MJ, but you c*nts just can't take it when someone says something negative about your favorite player.
Take this one and chalk it up as another L, bi*ch.
no i don't need some guy to come up with a way to calculate everything into one for me to figure out who is good and who is not...there are different aspects to everything in the game...something you can't comprehend.If somedboy shoots 50% from the feild,35% from the 3pt line,and 45% from free throw line i don't need somebody to calculate into one stat is going to be pretty inaccurate just because somebody has a problem hittin free throws

also there are different positions where true shot percentage just fu*ks everything up.Shaq is the worst shooter eveerrrrrrr but his FG% is beast because he stays in the paint.His free throws is horrible and doesn't shoot 3's...u can analyze these stats and shows how good of a shooter he realy is.Now you do the true shot percentage and because he is so dominant on 1 foot shots shaq has a higher TS% than bird,jordan,kobe,nowitzki,ray allen,dwayne wade....i mean the sh*t is stupid

so youuuu take another loss in life.There are different catagories for stats for a reason....because u have big guys who are EFFICIENT in the lane and you have spot up shooter who are EFFICIENT at 3's and you have ur all around guys who are EFFICIENT at everything...when you put TS in effect it throws all that out the window and puts everyone in one catagory

bottom line it's something for people to feel cool about that they have a TRUER way to calculate how good somebody is....dumbass


Last edited by philly337; 01-20-2009 at 09:27 PM..
 9 years ago '07        #140
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418
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I am prepared for the hate, but I only come to speak the truth.

YOu all come in here and talk about how dominating Jordan was but at the same time he won nothing until Bird and Magic faded.

Dropping names like...

Dumars, Starks, Harper, K. Gill, Mitch Richmond
Jordan dominated a weaker era. The 80s had more talent than the 90s. Jordan didn't start winning till the great 80s teams faded with age and injury and the addition of expansion teams further weakened the league. I find it hard to believe Jordan would have 6 rings if he came into the league with Bird and Magic.

Fact...Jordan vs Bird in the playoffs 0-6.


I think Bird played harder than Jordan. I didn't see Jordan sacrificing his body for the loose ball the way Bird did and I believe the 80s teams (as a whole) played harder and better team ball than in the 90s. Jordan ruined the definition of team play in the 90s. It's now recovering and the teams are playing great again. This year is the best we've had in years thanks to guys like Chris Paul etc...

Something missing here (the 80s). Jordan's greatest competition was against a prime Larry Bird and Magic Johnson but he won nothing during this time (his first 6 years in the league). His playoff record against Bird 0 - 6. He wasn't good enough to get past Bird to even have the chance to play against Magic in the Finals or showtime (in their prime) would have destroyed the Bulls. So in reality MJ lost to the best competition.

Bird and the Celtics never had any problems beating the Bulls with Jordan. Not even worried about Jordan upsetting Bird's Celtics. Jordan would hog the ball and score 40s to 60s (while losing) and Bird would do everything else and win the game. Magic was the guy that Celtics fans feared not Jordan.

My answer to this thread....NO Jordan is not the best ever. Bird, Magic and Oscar are the 3 best all around players. I might be a die hard Celts fan and Bird was my favorite, but even I am not such the homer to say he was the GOAT. That honor goes to Wilt Chamberlain the most dominating player the game will ever see.

Harvey Pollack used to tell the statisticians to keep track of Wilt's blocks (didn't keep offical stats then) and in many of the games Wilt often recorded OVER 20 BLOCKS PER GAME. One night Wilt had 25 blocks. (I can send all doubters the link if need be). That right there is more dominating than anything Jordan or any player has ever done.

Wilt said he could lead the league in a.ssists so he led the league in a.ssists just to prove it.

Wilt averaged 50 ppg, 25 rpg, for a season and I believe one season 27 rpg.

Wilt once scored 10 points in 10 seconds

Wilt 100 points in a game

He used to record DOUBLE TRIPLE DOUBLES consisting of 20+ 20+ and 20+..

He holds 72 NBA all time records.

I myself saw Wilt block Jabbar 4 straight times and probably 8 or 10 times for the game and Jabbar was 10 years younger.

So what's this talk about Wilt not being able to dominate in today's league?

If you recall the pace of the game is much slower today. If Jordan would have played back then he would have been awesome, however, the pace of the game was so much faster that he could have never kept pace to match those numbers. One season Wilt played nearly EVERY SECOND of an entire season under double and triple teams every night. How would Shaq or any player handle those minutes under double team? Even Shaq has to pass out on the double and triple and gets tired.

LOL Believe it or not that is the truth. How can you rate MJ the greatest player if you haven't see all the greats to compare him to? The answer is simple, Wilt Chamberlain and if you can say someone was more dominating....that's a homer.

Wilt had some great teams as well yet he always lost to Bill Russell. Those early Celtics aren't HOF's w/o Russell. Every other team had chances through draft and trades to acquire talent. If the players around him were so great, then why is the one constant between the Celtics making and missing the playoffs Russell?

Like others said, when did Jordan win his titles? Once Bird, Magic, Kareem, etc. were gone. Just because the players are more athletic and skilled now, doesn't change the fact that Russell dominated an era more than any player ever did. He wasn't playing slouches. West, Baylor, Wilt, Frazier, Greer, to name some of the greats playing at the same time.


Last edited by kyhoopsgoat; 01-20-2009 at 09:36 PM..
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