michael jordan's competition...?

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 9 years ago '04        #201
Ace2125 25 heat pts25
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 jcinema said:
but this is a jordan who was in the league over a decade longer then most of the people u named. The point we are making is that his actual skill set cant fu*k wit basketball players of today. If jordan came out in the 09 draft class, with the exact same skill set as that sh*t he came out wit in 84??? He would be on someones bench
no and hell no
 01-21-2009, 09:05 AM         #202
rawproduct03  OP
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 irhabi007 said:
Also look at the skill and overall excellence of players today: Wade, CP3, KG, D12, Duncan, Lebron, Deron, Bosh, Kobe, etc...
^^^ewing,alonzo,Brad Daugherty,malone,david robinson, n*gga don't bring up bigs cuz 90's bigs>>>todays bigs and drexler,dominique,barkley were every bit the competition back then as wade and lebron cp3 are now
 01-21-2009, 09:13 AM         #203
rawproduct03  OP
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and let me repeat the bulls won 6 rings with NO LOW POST SCORING THREAT n*gga since 1998 only one team (04 pistons) has done that and even they had rasheed who was scoring from the low block in that finals. sh*t kobe tried and what happened??? the suns scorched that a.ss even gave kobe a 3-1 head start and then came back and spanked that a.ss, mj said fu*k a low post n*gga i got this
 01-21-2009, 09:14 AM         #204
rawproduct03  OP
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n*gga close the thread already, i spit ETHER and don't even need a ron browz beat :dancingcool:
 9 years ago '06        #205
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 jcinema said:
but this is a jordan who was in the league over a decade longer then most of the people u named. the point we are making is that his actual skill set cant fu*k wit basketball players of today. if jordan came out in the 09 draft class, with the exact same skill set as that sh*t he came out wit in 84??? he would be on someones bench
ur a fu*kin idiot...jordan come off the bench?How long u been watchin b-ball?Cause he was just in the fu*kin league 5 years ago and was still puttin up number that would have him as the starting SG or SF on every team at the age of 40
 01-21-2009, 09:46 AM         #206
A.O.™  OP
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 irhabi007 said:

This begs the question: Who did MJ EVER beat in his title runs?


Dude what sense do you make? Your whole logic is fu*king flawed...

Jordan didnt beat nobody for his rings?

ARE YOU fu*kING KIDDING ME...

So i ask you who did Kobe beat for his rings... and lets look at his team...

Shaq, Kobe, D.Fish, Rick Fox

and lets see who he beat..

Allen Iverson w/ a bunch of bums.
Jason Kidd and Kenyon Martin and a bunch of bums.
and who was the other ring.. Indiana.. (did anybody besides a Laker fan watch that series)

how did those series go?

Philly 4-1
NJ - 4-0
Indiana 4-1 or 4-2?

You call that competition..

Every team the Bulls faced on their championship run.. Portland, Phoenix, Seatle, Utah, Lakers would sh*t on that Philly team, On that NJ team, and that Indiana team..

get fu*king for real..

What happened when the lakers faced equal talent in the Finals ... in Detroit..

What was that rapage 4-1? and that one win was the luckiest sh*t ever.. kobe got hot in the 4th and started hitting 3's from every where..


Get fu*king serious..

What happened last year again... Evenly matched finals.. Lakers vs C's... Lakers got r*ped...

And seriously... The 90's bulls team... and im going with the John Paxson, BJ Armstrong, Cliff Livingston bulls... would have ran them Celtics off the court.



Your logic is flawed... your right on time passing athletes getting better and all that.. but doesnt mean the competition the people faced back in the day was stiff because athletes are better now..

because logically all the things jordan did in the 80's and 90's every player in the NBA has those traits now.. Free throw line high flyers, and all that.. but they dont have the drive, and desire to win.. and thats what seperates them from Mike..

Mike didnt go nut to get his 30 points a game.. he did it in the flow of the offense, he took all the shots, because the offense was designed that way.. understand that...

When Philly went to the finals with Iverson.. the gameplan was designed for everybody to play D, get boards, and Iverson takes the shots... etc...
 9 years ago '04        #207
Javon23 265 heat pts265
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 teh truth said:
BUDdY kobe is closer than you think. he is way more closer than u think and tougher than u think kobe dislocated his finger said no hes not getting surgery tape dis sh*t either way kobe has been to the finals 5 times already that should say how close he is already

but i understand lebron pays u so of course ur gonna hate the best player in the L
he been to the finals 5 times and?
MJ = 6 Rings
Lebron = 24 years old and on the come up
 9 years ago '04        #208
Javon23 265 heat pts265
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 jcinema said:
but this is a jordan who was in the league over a decade longer then most of the people u named. the point we are making is that his actual skill set cant fu*k wit basketball players of today. if jordan came out in the 09 draft class, with the exact same skill set as that sh*t he came out wit in 84??? he would be on someones bench
please put the crack pipe down
todays player lack fundamentals
Jordan era as a whole would murder todays NBA
there is no comparison
it was actually a game back then and not tweaked david stern entertainment like it is now.
i swear yall lil kids are locked in yall own era
 9 years ago '06        #209
titanreese 13 heat pts13
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I think all you people are stupid as fu*k.......Kobe fans for actually thinking Kobe is better then Jordan and Jordan fans for actually arguing with them

I could paint a "Kobe >>> Jordan" or a "Jordan >>> Kobe" sign on the wall and all you muthafu*kers would prolly have a 30 minute argument with the wall
 9 years ago '07        #210
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418
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 A.O.™ said:
Dude what sense do you make? Your whole logic is fu*king flawed...

Jordan didnt beat nobody for his rings?

ARE YOU fu*kING KIDDING ME...

So i ask you who did Kobe beat for his rings... and lets look at his team...

Shaq, Kobe, D.Fish, Rick Fox

and lets see who he beat..

Allen Iverson w/ a bunch of bums.
Jason Kidd and Kenyon Martin and a bunch of bums.
and who was the other ring.. Indiana.. (did anybody besides a Laker fan watch that series)

how did those series go?

Philly 4-1
NJ - 4-0
Indiana 4-1 or 4-2?

You call that competition..

Every team the Bulls faced on their championship run.. Portland, Phoenix, Seatle, Utah, Lakers would sh*t on that Philly team, On that NJ team, and that Indiana team..

get fu*king for real..

What happened when the lakers faced equal talent in the Finals ... in Detroit..

What was that rapage 4-1? and that one win was the luckiest sh*t ever.. kobe got hot in the 4th and started hitting 3's from every where..


Get fu*king serious..

What happened last year again... Evenly matched finals.. Lakers vs C's... Lakers got r*ped...

And seriously... The 90's bulls team... and im going with the John Paxson, BJ Armstrong, Cliff Livingston bulls... would have ran them Celtics off the court.



Your logic is flawed... your right on time passing athletes getting better and all that.. but doesnt mean the competition the people faced back in the day was stiff because athletes are better now..

because logically all the things jordan did in the 80's and 90's every player in the NBA has those traits now.. Free throw line high flyers, and all that.. but they dont have the drive, and desire to win.. and thats what seperates them from Mike..

Mike didnt go nut to get his 30 points a game.. he did it in the flow of the offense, he took all the shots, because the offense was designed that way.. understand that...

When Philly went to the finals with Iverson.. the gameplan was designed for everybody to play D, get boards, and Iverson takes the shots... etc...
I have 4 posts in this thread...

...and have not mentioned or referenced KOBE in any of my arguements?

READ THE fu*kING THREAD before you starting running your d*ckSUCKER...
 9 years ago '04        #211
luv4music 7 heat pts
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someone's mad :angry12:
 01-21-2009, 12:01 PM         #212
Jayborne23  OP
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Challenging Jordan's competition is a bad argument. The league then was like the league is now, a lot more top heavy with deep teams. Jordan played against plenty of great players, who aren't looked upon as greater because Jordan and the Bulls denied them rings. Jordan was so great that Pippen, an also amazing player, gets overlooked although he was a monster.

Mitch Richmond was a beast in the 90's. Joe Dumars + handchecking was an elite defender who Jordan had immense respect for.

And trying to challenge Jordan's skill set is idiotic. Your talking about a guy who went from the best athlete in the league to the best mid-range jump shooter in the league. He obviously possessed the ability to develop his game.
 01-21-2009, 12:06 PM         #213
A.O.™  OP
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 irhabi007 said:
I have 4 posts in this thread...

...and have not mentioned or referenced KOBE in any of my arguements?

READ THE fu*kING THREAD before you starting running your d*ckSUCKER...
Do you have to mention Kobe... to act like your not referencing Kobe...

Because your talking about who did Jordan beat for his titles...

What other NBA superstar in todays NBA has won titles... besides Tim Duncan, and Kobe, 1 for D-whistle, and 1 for the DEEETTTRROOOITTT basketball, and 1 for KG.

So obviously your trying to compare something...

I just a.ssasinated your thought before it got on the train...

So who could you have been talking about? Those the only NBA champions since Mike... Lakers, Boston, Detroit, and SA.. So do you want to compare the teams SA played in the finals to who Mike played in the finals? No.
Are you trying to compare Detroit and Bostons both thumping of LA in the finals? No. Why because that would make Kobe look bad.

So what were you trying to say..?

Nothing!



Just like I thought
 9 years ago '08        #214
PEK 16 heat pts16
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 rawproduct03 said:
^^^^ idiot first off jordan beat plenty good team for example,beat the 76ers en route to there first championship,a 76er team that had barkley averaging 27ppg hersey hawkins who ave 22 ppg that year,dawkins and gilliam averaged 15ppg each and they had 2 other players that averaged over 14ppg as well, so don't act like there was no talent dumb fu*k,went through the pistons then beat the lakers, funny how you act like the lakers were weak, ummm they made it to the finals stupid a.ss, the next year he single handedly took down the cavs who had brad Daugherty who was a fu*king beat, a 21 and 10 guy who also averaged almost 4 a.ssist for a center this n*gga was a monsta with larry nance and mark price, then the blazers who had clyde averaging 25ppg 6+assists and 6+ rebounds which is just as good as hell even by todays stanards,jerome kersey,terry porter,cliff robinson ect ect, the next year they took down the hawks who had somebody by the name of dominique wilkins who averaged 30ppg that year kevin willis who averaged 18 and 8 basically pau gasol numbers ,stacy augman,mookie blaylock.took down the knicks b4 they got to the suns (oh yeah the knicks that had ewing averaging 24 and 12 and 2 blks basically duncan numbers, then the suns i'm not even gonna get into that, lets just say CHARLES BARKLEY hmm lets see.... that year he only averaged 25ppg 12+ rpg 5 apg 1.6spg and a blk a game :agreement6: dan marjerle,keven johnson sh*t even dumas put up 16 a game that year. and he was there 4th option. oh yeah and the bulls did this with NO OFFENSIVE THREAT WHAT SO EVER. ..now i love hakeem but he came in the nba 84-85 and didn't retire til 2002 now it's funny how he only won 2 rings when mj retired....



now in 96 they knocked off the miami heat who had 9 players average double digit points lead by alonzo 23 and 10 with 3 blks and tim hardaway who averaged a double double at 17 and 10 then beat the knicks and not only did they beat the shaq and penny orlando magic THEY SWEPT THEM AND ONCE AGAIN DID IT WITH NO LOW POST OFFENSIVE THREAT then beat the sonics, it doesn't matter what they did the next year point is they made it to the finals and won 64 games that year. in 97 they smashed the bullets who had webber and howard who put in major work that year and strickland who ave 17ppg and 9 a.ssists,beat hardaway and alonzo's heat AGAIN and beat utah twice and you can hate on malone all you want (top 5 pf all time) but lets not forget they went to the finals TWICE and a jazz team that eliminated the lakers TWICE i mean the competition for the championship lakers was weak. they beat the paacers in the finals, a pacer team that not one player averaged over 18ppg (thanks to shaq) then a 76er team who was a one man show with A.I (thanks to shaq) then a nets team that didn't have not one player average 15 ppg on there team (yet again thanks to shaq for there 3rd ring)
Pure Ether! When will these Kobe stans learn to just STFU.
 9 years ago '06        #215
Da prophecy 
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 philly337 said:
ur a fu*kin idiot...jordan come off the bench?How long u been watchin b-ball?Cause he was just in the fu*kin league 5 years ago and was still puttin up number that would have him as the starting SG or SF on every team at the age of 40

I've been waiting for someone to mention that. Let's not forget he was still doing his thing just a few years ago. And i don't know what anyone means by saying players are more atheltic and better now. The 90's had a ridiculous amount of athleticism and some of todays stars (kg and shaq just to name a couple) were even more explosive and athetic in the mid 90's.
 9 years ago '07        #216
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418
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 A.O.™ said:
Do you have to mention Kobe... to act like your not referencing Kobe...

Because your talking about who did Jordan beat for his titles...

So obviously your trying to compare something...

I just a.ssasinated your thought before it got on the train...

So who could you have been talking about? Those the only NBA champions since Mike... Lakers, Boston, Detroit, and SA.. So do you want to compare the teams SA played in the finals to who Mike played in the finals? No.
Are you trying to compare Detroit and Bostons both thumping of LA in the finals? No. Why because that would make Kobe look bad.

So what were you trying to say..?

Nothing!


Just like I thought
So let us go back and rehash my original post and youtell me who I was referencing to...

You all come in here and talk about how dominating Jordan was but at the same time he won nothing until Bird and Magic faded.

Jordan dominated a weaker era. The 80s had more talent than the 90s. Jordan didn't start winning till the great 80s teams faded with age and injury and the addition of expansion teams further weakened the league. I find it hard to believe Jordan would have 6 rings if he came into the league with Bird and Magic.

Fact...Jordan vs Bird in the playoffs 0-6.

I think Bird played harder than Jordan. I didn't see Jordan sacrificing his body for the loose ball the way Bird did and I believe the 80s teams (as a whole) played harder and better team ball than in the 90s. Jordan ruined the definition of team play in the 90s. It's now recovering and the teams are playing great again. This year is the best we've had in years thanks to guys like Chris Paul etc...

Something missing here (the 80s). Jordan's greatest competition was against a prime Larry Bird and Magic Johnson but he won nothing during this time (his first 6 years in the league). His playoff record against Bird 0 - 6. He wasn't good enough to get past Bird to even have the chance to play against Magic in the Finals or showtime (in their prime) would have destroyed the Bulls. So in reality MJ lost to the best competition.

Bird and the Celtics never had any problems beating the Bulls with Jordan. Not even worried about Jordan upsetting Bird's Celtics. Jordan would hog the ball and score 40s to 60s (while losing) and Bird would do everything else and win the game. Magic was the guy that Celtics fans feared not Jordan.

My answer to this thread....NO Jordan is not the best ever. Bird, Magic and Oscar are the 3 best all around players. I might be a die hard Celts fan and Bird was my favorite, but even I am not such the homer to say he was the GOAT. That honor goes to Wilt Chamberlain the most dominating player the game will ever see.




So what's this talk about Wilt not being able to dominate in today's league?

If you recall the pace of the game is much slower today. If Jordan would have played back then he would have been awesome, however, the pace of the game was so much faster that he could have never kept pace to match those numbers. One season Wilt played nearly EVERY SECOND of an entire season under double and triple teams every night. How would Shaq or any player handle those minutes under double team? Even Shaq has to pass out on the double and triple and gets tired.

LOL Believe it or not that is the truth. How can you rate MJ the greatest player if you haven't see all the greats to compare him to? The answer is simple, Wilt Chamberlain and if you can say someone was more dominating....that's a homer.

Wilt had some great teams as well yet he always lost to Bill Russell. Those early Celtics aren't HOF's w/o Russell. Every other team had chances through draft and trades to acquire talent. If the players around him were so great, then why is the one constant between the Celtics making and missing the playoffs Russell?

Like others said, when did Jordan win his titles? Once Bird, Magic, Kareem, etc. were gone. Just because the players are more athletic and skilled now, doesn't change the fact that Russell dominated an era more than any player ever did. He wasn't playing slouches. West, Baylor, Wilt, Frazier, Greer, to name some of the greats playing at the same time.
 9 years ago '05        #217
Sheeed 1 heat pts
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people always forget that MJ took time off....he could have easily had more rings...without shaq kobe has choked on the big stage..and once with shaq...that detroit series was pretty much kobe's fault...shaq was shooting somewhere around 60% from the field...but kobe wanted to be that n*gga...and it cost them
 9 years ago '06        #218
philly337 20 heat pts20
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 Sheeed said:
people always forget that MJ took time off....he could have easily had more rings...without shaq kobe has choked on the big stage..and once with shaq...that detroit series was pretty much kobe's fault...shaq was shooting somewhere around 60% from the field...but kobe wanted to be that n*gga...and it cost them
na they don't forget they just didn't watch back then cause i think they're only 15 years old.The man basically won 6 straight rings and if he wouldn't have retired it def woulda been 8 straight...the rockets would not have standed a chance against the bulls
 9 years ago '04        #219
Javon23 265 heat pts265
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 01-21-2009, 02:16 PM         #220
A.O.™  OP
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 irhabi007 said:
So let us go back and rehash my original post and youtell me who I was referencing to...
So let me get this straight...

Your comparing Jordans first 6 years in the league where Jordan was his whole team.

To let me get this straight... Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish, Len Bias and co. who were winning championships since 1980-81

To a Rookie Jordan in 85..

And then blame Jordan for never beating Bird's Celtics on the fact he was a ball hog? Who was he passing the ball too?

Then say Jordan isnt the greatest player because he had to wait for injury and age to get Bird out of the league?

Did Jordan not take his team to the playoffs all those years... Did Jordan not get fu*ked up by the Pistons every year they played in the Playoffs?

Wilt dominated a era? Why wouldnt he.. he was 7 ft.. and the average center back then was 6'6.. Is that not Shaq did when he got in the league, just abuse everybody smaller than him... thats not a fair comparision... Wilt averaged like 40 points a game.. he was taller than everybody... i mean not a fair argument it wasnt his fault he was taller than everybody.

And the same can be said about Mike, it wasnt his fault he was born years after Bird. He said it in one of his videos he felt cheated cause he didnt get to beat the Celtics and win a championship... So its not like he didnt want to beat those guys.

So what you think is going to happen now...

Lebron and company are his rings going to be invalid if he starts winning after Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, and all todays stars fade out?

You cant hold time against players...

Because even though Mike never got to beat the Celtics..

He BEAT Magic, and the Lakers... teams that used to beat the C's in the finals.

He kept a sh*t load of HOF's from not getting rings... Barkley, KJ, Tom Chambers, Thunder Dan, Tim Hardaway, Spreewell (not HOF worthy after the coach incident), Ewing, the Mailman, Stockton, etc..

i mean are you really going to discredit Mike cause he didnt have the right roster to beat the C's.?

Come on dude that doesnt make any sense..

As far as Mike being the greatest player ever... I dont think that can be questioned... He carried the bulls his whole career...

And to add more validity to that statement... When Mike retired Pippen took the Bulls as far as he could take them without Jordan... And then When Jordan came back he put them back over the hump...

Not only did they take out a Orlando Magic team who was to be the future of the league..

he went on to win the most regular season games 72-10 and if it wasnt for the NBA being sissy soft and the Lakers going 15-1 that year when they beat philly in the finals, that bulls team also set that record for best playoff run...

Come on dude... dont hate on Mike cause Larry Birds celtics team were stacked... and all they did was fu*k Jordan up.... and you know they used to put the beats on mike physically so lets not kid ourselves.
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