LOST Season 5 Discussion Thread

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Props Slaps
 9 years ago '05        #581
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 beauxjangles said:
i hope this hasn;t been said already but do you think that ben is laid out on the bed in 2004 because he is dying in 77?

i know he got whacked over the head but the fact that little ben got shot may have an effect on older ben. if young ben were to die old been would die too.

Think about what happened to the red head. she "died" because her past was changed??????
She didnt die because her past was changed. At all. She died because she was on the island while it was in a time-loop for to long. She lived there as a little kid for years. Thats why she died before the rest of them started getting nosebleeds. Refer to the episode where Desmond is stuck in a time-loop.

And the answer to your first question is no, not even close. Ben is laid out on the bed in the current time is because he got hit over the head by Sun. Has nothing to do with him getting shot in the past. Wtf dont you people understand? God DAMN! You guys are like Hurley asking all these questions. This episode here, that scene with Hurley and Miles, was specifically targeted to you idiots that dont understand whats going on.
 9 years ago '05        #582
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 80sbabyent said:
Maybe, maybe not, Faraday clearly said that he wouldnt tell the red head chick whatever she said he told her when she was a kid, but that contradicts him saying whatever happened happened. its got to be one or the other either what happened happened or you can not do something that supposedly already happened, which makes no sense either... thats why people get confused, the interpretations on what is said and what happens on the show are subjective and endless


Listen, dude. It is pretty obvious that at some point Faraday will be forced to tell her what he told her in her past.

We havnt seen it yet, but its gonna happen. Some type of event or circumstance will take place where he has to realize he has to tell her that.

God damn i'm annoyed with the ignorance in this thread.

Nothing that has happened so far has gone against the "Whatever happened, happened" line that Faraday put out.

 9 years ago '05        #583
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 KarteL13 said:
LOL @ personal attacks. You're the dumb f**k that started popping off in the first place.


Do yourself a favor and wash ya face breh.
Your making a fool of yourself.



Stop watching Lost, please. If you dont understand it, stop watching. Your an idiot.
 04-01-2009, 10:27 PM         #584
EMS the God 
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dope season, albeit a lil stretched
 9 years ago '05        #585
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 DHARMA said:
If we haven't witnessed those things, then those aren't really changes. It has always happened this way. Us not knowing that doesn't factor in.

I think the course correction thing only applies to Desmond. The others can't change anything to begin with. In other words, it was Desmond's destiny to save Charlie to allow him to enter the Looking Glass, and Charlie's destiny to switch off the jamming mechanism and die thereafter. It appears as course-correction to us, but was always intended to happen in the grand scale of things. Desmond didn't change destiny, he simply fulfilled it.

If Charlie had died with the lightning, or by Ethan, or drowning, or any of the other ways, the Freighter would have still made it to the Island. Because Daniel travels back in time and tells Charlotte to never come back... etc. So he makes it there somehow someway. It probably would have just been someone else down there, but they wouldn't have died, because Charlie just had it in. And that's probably why Mikail kept avoiding death, because he HAD to k!ll Charlie down in the Looking Glass.


You and Monk are the main people I absolutly respect in this thread.

But,....I dont know why it is a.ssumed Desmond changed the future and hes special. Desmond had flashes of what was going to happen in the future. That never actually happened. He had flashes of it doesnt mean it was actually going to happen. I cant explain it well, but by your posts i'm gonna a.ssume you know what I mean. Desmond was always supposed to have those flashes, and he was always supposed to prevent it. It never actually happened and THEN he prevented it. He just had flashes telling him what to prevent. Doesnt make much sense to folks like Kartel, but i'm sure you know what I mean.

So I dont know where the a.ssumption that Desmond did something impossible came from. He did what he was supposed to do, what always happens/happened on an endless time-loop.

Anyway, keep up with your posts. And by the way, Monk, where are you? I'm looking for your insight on the newest episode as well.


Last edited by ReppinDaBurghh; 04-01-2009 at 10:32 PM..
 9 years ago '05        #586
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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SPOILER ALERT: Before you read this post, grab yourself a milk—no, make that a juice box—and watch last night's episode of Lost.

Everything, they say, comes back into fashion eventually. So though I wouldn't have believed it had you told me a few weeks ago, Lost has actually begun having interesting flashbacks again. This week, in fact, a flashback that was more compelling than the events on the Island—and a flashback centered on Kate, yet. Will wonders never cease?

I've taken my potshots at Kate Austen over the seasons, but this was probably one of Evangeline Lilly's best episodes so far. While I was not, am not, and cannot imagine being interested in whether or not Freckles ends up with Sawyer, or Jack, or any man on the Island, Lilly completely sold me on why Kate needed Aaron so badly after escaping the Island, and how badly it hurt her to leave him in order to go back.

Lilly was so good in that tearful parting motel scene, in fact—you could almost feel her tearing herself away from her baby—that I felt the episode didn't need the explanation that it devised in order to get her to that place. Her flashback seemed, in part anyway, reverse engineered to answer the questions: why did Kate pretend that Aaron was her baby, and why didn't she just return him to Claire's mother?

Saying that her did it for herself—that keeping Aaron was somehow a way of getting over having her heart broken by Sawyer—made dramatic sense, I guess, and it allowed the story to come back around to Cassidy and Clementine. But it would have been simpler, and would have made as much or more human sense, simply to say that she took Aaron because he was her friend's baby, that she kept him because she trusted only herself to keep him safe (as we all know, Kate isn't the trusting kind) and that it was wrenching to give him up not because of some three-year-old heartbreak, but because she had raised him as her own baby.

In the same way, the story on the Island may have been working a little too hard to explain things that didn't need explaining. The conversation between Hurley and Miles was a pretty blatant let's-break-down-time-travel-for-the-home-audience scene, but is the concept really that hard to get? Hurley and Miles have traveled back in time, but they haven't traveled to an earlier point in their lives, so of course they can die. On the other hand, Young Ben is a kid who hasn't grown into Big Ben yet, so he can't. And, the end of the episode confirms, he doesn't.

That said, the show is getting into hairy enough sci-fi territory that it probably needed someone to say, flat out, "This is not Back to the Future." (Had no one on Oceanic 815 seen Twelve Monkeys? What was the in-flight movie, anyway?) And it was probably worth it just for the who's-on-first exchange between Hurley and Miles, concluding with a question we'd been asking here: why, then, didn't Ben remember having been shot by Sayid when he was captured as an adult? Answer: "Huh."

Personally, I'd a.ssumed that Ben did remember, and concealed his knowledge because he saw some advantage in it. Because he's Ben, and that's what he does. I was wrong, I guess, given Richard's saying that Ben's "treatment" in the temple will have the convenient side effect of erasing his memories of the shooting incident.

So bottom line: much of "Whatever Happened, Happened" served simply to explain that whatever happened did, in fact, as we suspected, happen. Ben lived. He didn't remember his past with Sayid in the future. And no one faded away, Back to the Future style.

Beyond that—and the revelation that both Ellie and Widmore are still on the scene with the Others in the 1970s—we're kind of like Hurley sitting in that living room, biding our time, awaiting instructions, wondering what will be the next development to move the Island story forward, now that it's not clear whether or why the other survivors need the Oceanic Six.

Most of the action in this episode was instead on a character level. First, Juliet, Kate and Sawyer came to the decision that whether or not one can change the past, it's not worth changing your moral character in the attempt. Young Ben is still a child, still an innocent, and it's still wrong to let him die.

Unless you're Jack, of course, whose moral compass is again aligned 180 degrees in the opposite direction. His decision to let Ben die at least stems from some kind of principle: he's seen what Ben does in the future and, like the doctor he is, wants to catch the disease in its early stages. But he also seems to be acting partly out of pique, telling Kate that he'd already saved Ben once, at her request to save Sawyer, and he regretted it.

Jack says he's made this decision because he's a different person. But has he? Because once again, it seems that it's all about him. Except this time, that's true in an even bigger sense: his decision, his willingness to be callous, was probably what ended up making Ben become what he did, as young Linus gets adopted by the Others.

The child is father to the man, and in an episode that was so much about adoptions and their repercussions, Jack has become a kind of father to the man Ben will become. In that sense, it really is all about Jack—much more than he may like to admit.
 9 years ago '04        #587
goke11429 3 heat pts
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 reppindaburghh said:
spoiler alert: Before you read this post, grab yourself a milk—no, make that a juice box—and watch last night's episode of lost.

Everything, they say, comes back into fashion eventually. So though i wouldn't have believed it had you told me a few weeks ago, lost has actually begun having interesting flashbacks again. This week, in fact, a flashback that was more compelling than the events on the island—and a flashback centered on kate, yet. Will wonders never cease?

I've taken my potshots at kate austen over the seasons, but this was probably one of evangeline lilly's best episodes so far. While i was not, am not, and cannot imagine being interested in whether or not freckles ends up with sawyer, or jack, or any man on the island, lilly completely sold me on why kate needed aaron so badly after escaping the island, and how badly it hurt her to leave him in order to go back.

Lilly was so good in that tearful parting motel scene, in fact—you could almost feel her tearing herself away from her baby—that i felt the episode didn't need the explanation that it devised in order to get her to that place. Her flashback seemed, in part anyway, reverse engineered to answer the questions: Why did kate pretend that aaron was her baby, and why didn't she just return him to claire's mother?

Saying that her did it for herself—that keeping aaron was somehow a way of getting over having her heart broken by sawyer—made dramatic sense, i guess, and it allowed the story to come back around to cassidy and clementine. But it would have been simpler, and would have made as much or more human sense, simply to say that she took aaron because he was her friend's baby, that she kept him because she trusted only herself to keep him safe (as we all know, kate isn't the trusting kind) and that it was wrenching to give him up not because of some three-year-old heartbreak, but because she had raised him as her own baby.

In the same way, the story on the island may have been working a little too hard to explain things that didn't need explaining. The conversation between hurley and miles was a pretty blatant let's-break-down-time-travel-for-the-home-audience scene, but is the concept really that hard to get? Hurley and miles have traveled back in time, but they haven't traveled to an earlier point in their lives, so of course they can die. On the other hand, young ben is a kid who hasn't grown into big ben yet, so he can't. And, the end of the episode confirms, he doesn't.

That said, the show is getting into hairy enough sci-fi territory that it probably needed someone to say, flat out, "this is not back to the future." (had no one on oceanic 815 seen twelve monkeys? What was the in-flight movie, anyway?) and it was probably worth it just for the who's-on-first exchange between hurley and miles, concluding with a question we'd been asking here: Why, then, didn't ben remember having been shot by sayid when he was captured as an adult? Answer: "huh."

personally, i'd a.ssumed that ben did remember, and concealed his knowledge because he saw some advantage in it. Because he's ben, and that's what he does. I was wrong, i guess, given richard's saying that ben's "treatment" in the temple will have the convenient side effect of erasing his memories of the shooting incident.

So bottom line: Much of "whatever happened, happened" served simply to explain that whatever happened did, in fact, as we suspected, happen. Ben lived. He didn't remember his past with sayid in the future. And no one faded away, back to the future style.

Beyond that—and the revelation that both ellie and widmore are still on the scene with the others in the 1970s—we're kind of like hurley sitting in that living room, biding our time, awaiting instructions, wondering what will be the next development to move the island story forward, now that it's not clear whether or why the other survivors need the oceanic six.

Most of the action in this episode was instead on a character level. First, juliet, kate and sawyer came to the decision that whether or not one can change the past, it's not worth changing your moral character in the attempt. Young ben is still a child, still an innocent, and it's still wrong to let him die.

Unless you're jack, of course, whose moral compass is again aligned 180 degrees in the opposite direction. His decision to let ben die at least stems from some kind of principle: He's seen what ben does in the future and, like the doctor he is, wants to catch the disease in its early stages. But he also seems to be acting partly out of pique, telling kate that he'd already saved ben once, at her request to save sawyer, and he regretted it.

Jack says he's made this decision because he's a different person. But has he? Because once again, it seems that it's all about him. Except this time, that's true in an even bigger sense: His decision, his willingness to be callous, was probably what ended up making ben become what he did, as young linus gets adopted by the others.

The child is father to the man, and in an episode that was so much about adoptions and their repercussions, jack has become a kind of father to the man ben will become. In that sense, it really is all about jack—much more than he may like to admit.
]

url?
 04-01-2009, 11:31 PM         #588
xtrapimpin 
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Dope episode, I usually don't like kate centric episodes, but this was tight.

So Jack and Sayid play a part in Ben losing his innocence, since one shot him, the other wouldn't fix him, so off to the temple we go.
The two people that hated him the most are the ones that ended up helping him on his path to evil, hahaha..funny stuff

Now back to the future to my 2 favorite characters, Ben and Locke...sweet
 9 years ago '06        #589
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 Reppindaburghh said:
Sweet Jesus. Your a moron. Sayid ALWAYS shot Ben in Bens timeline. Sayid didnt experience it yet because Sayid didnt shoot Ben while SAYID was a kid. He shot Ben while SAYID was an adult. Wtf dont you understand!?!?!?!?!?!!

What you just said is what I've been thinking all this time.

But, if what Dharma posted is accurate (the Sawyer's time line) wouldn't that cancel out the whole idea of Sayid "has always shot Ben in the past", considering that would be Sayid's present? Knowhatimsayin? If that's the case, then maybe Ben did get shot in the past, but it wasn't by Sayid, it was just course correcting itself?
 9 years ago '06        #590
modalee 5 heat pts
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Almost every time travel question that people have had about Lost was answered in this episode through the Miles and Hurley conversation and Richard also explained why Ben did not remember Sayid in 2004.
 9 years ago '06        #591
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Ben doesn't remember Sayid in his past because Sayid was never IN his past. The Losties are re-creating the past as much as possible. This is all Sawyer's, Jack's, Juliet's, Kate's, Hurley's, etc. "present time", while this is everyone else's "past time"

Ben did get injured in his past, but not by Sayid.
 9 years ago '06        #592
modalee 5 heat pts
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 -Phase One- said:
Ben doesn't remember Sayid in his past because Sayid was never IN his past. The Losties are re-creating the past as much as possible. This is all Sawyer's, Jack's, Juliet's, Kate's, Hurley's, etc. "present time", while this is everyone else's "past time"

Ben did get injured in his past, but not by Sayid.



Did u not watch tonights episode??


Richard CLEARLY explains that if he heals Ben that Ben would no longer REMEMBER any of this happened and that he would lose his innocence. This is the reason why Ben does not remember Sayid or any of the O6 coming back to the past in Dharma time.
 9 years ago '06        #593
modalee 5 heat pts
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Another interesting point regarding how Ben became Ben -
Sayid shot him
Jin found him
Jack wouldn't operate on him
Juliet had the idea of having the Others save him
Kate & Sawyer brought him to Richard
So all of them had a direct role in turning Ben into an Other.
 9 years ago '06        #594
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When they had those flashes, they were in their present time, but when the flashes stopped, they continued their present time while living in everyone else's past time. (Ben, Richard, the whole Dharma camp.) Everything happening right now is similar to what happened in the past, but Sayid and the Losties were not apart of it. Evetything happens, happened, but it does not mean that everyone else was also in the past. No one knew Ben when they first met him, and vice versa.

Richard saying what he said on tonight's episode has nothing to do with it.
 9 years ago '06        #595
modalee 5 heat pts
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u clearly do not understand what the writers were trying to get across with the hurley miles conversation and your just trying to have ur own theory that is not correct.
 9 years ago '06        #596
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 modalee81 said:
u clearly do not understand what the writers were trying to get across with the hurley miles conversation and your just trying to have ur own theory that is not correct.
and why is that? why didn't Mile's answer that last question? the writer's could be playing around with that idea in that scene.

what makes your "theory" more relevant than mine?
 9 years ago '06        #597
modalee 5 heat pts
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 -Phase One- said:
and why is that? why didn't Mile's answer that last question? the writer's could be playing around with that idea in that scene.

what makes your "theory" more relevant than mine?
Dude its not my theory its the writers reinforcing to us how the time traveling works on the island they have been saying over and over again this season that this is the way it works and thats it.


and that last question about why Ben doesnt remember Sayid was f**king answered as clear as can be by Richard when he said that healing ben would mean that he forgets all of this happened, hed lose his innocence, and hed be one of them forever.
 9 years ago '06        #598
modalee 5 heat pts
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Heres the transcript of Hurley and Miles convo i found on another website:

Hurley: let me get this straight, all this has already happened?
Miles: Yes
H: So this conversation we are having right now, we already had?
M: Yes!
H: So what am I going to say next?
M: I don’t know
H: Ha, then your theory is wrong
M: For the thousandth time you dingbat, the conversation already happened, but not for you and me, for you and me, its happening right now
H: Ok, answer me this, if this already happened to me, why don’t I remember any of it?
M: Because once Ben turned that wheel, Time isn’t a straight line for us anymore, or experiences in the past, and in the future happened before these experiences right now
H: say that again
M: Shoot me Please, please
H: Ha I cant shoot you because if I you die in 1977 you cant come back to the island thirty years from now
M: I can die, I have already come to the island on the freighter, any of us can die, because this is our present
H: But you said Ben cant die because he still has to grow up and be the leader of the others
M: Because this is his past
H: But when first captured Ben and Sayid tortured him, why wouldn’t he remember being shot by that same guy when he was a kid
M: Huh I never thought of that
H: Huh


and the answer to their question about Ben remembering sayid was Richard said that if he helped Ben, he wouldn't remember the preceding events.


Last edited by modalee; 04-02-2009 at 01:07 AM..
 04-02-2009, 01:14 AM         #599
beauxjangles 
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 -Phase One- said:
and why is that? why didn't Mile's answer that last question? the writer's could be playing around with that idea in that scene.

what makes your "theory" more relevant than mine?

Yeah i agree. Do you really think the writers would give up what everyone has been making theories about for the past few years in a simple conversation between miles and hurley? miles and hurley know just as much as we do...not much.

The writers will make you think you know what is going on, but then all the sudden you are again asking the same question , "What the f*@k!?!?"
 9 years ago '06        #600
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So after the O6 crashed, when they first met Ben, why didn't they remember him? Why didn't Sayid remember shooting him? Why didn't Juliet remember them as well?

I understand where you're coming from, but it doesn't make any sense.

When it comes to Lost, there's a lot of twists. How do we know that the writer's threw that scene in there to get people to believe that's what's going on? I would, just to f**k with people's heads. Like I said, Hurley's last question that Mile's couldn't answer was probably a "hint" of some sort.

And I love how certain people are acting like they're apart of the film crew and they know what's going on "officially" when they're just going to other sites and coping and pasting other people's opinions. Talk about being lame as f**k.
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