LOST Season 5 Discussion Thread

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Props Slaps
 9 years ago '04        #561
A.G 27 heat pts27
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This season sucks so bad it saddens me...
 9 years ago '06        #562
modalee 5 heat pts
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This has been the best season of Lost the story is all starting to come together
 9 years ago '08        #563
KarteL13 
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 modalee81 said:
This has been the best season of Lost the story is all starting to come together
Nope. Season 1 and 2 are still the best.

This season has been good but you can tell they're stretching this shiit out. The last episode was a snoozer up until Sayid shot Ben.

Remember, Lost was originally planned to be 5 seasons long.
 04-01-2009, 02:03 PM         #564
80sbabyent 
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 Eddie.. said:
what episode did faraday say he wasn't gonna tell her???
The one where she died, before she died she said when she was a kid a man told her to come back to the island, and that man was him, so when sawyer met back up with him after she died and disappeared he kept mumbling that he wasn't going to tell her, which contradicts him saying what happened happened.

I just take the show as it comes, i think its better that way, because it seems like everytime we think we know something... theres always a :jawdrop: moment


Last edited by 80sbabyent; 04-01-2009 at 02:07 PM..
 9 years ago '06        #565
modalee 5 heat pts
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 KarteL13 said:
Nope. Season 1 and 2 are still the best.

This season has been good but you can tell they're stretching this shiit out. The last episode was a snoozer up until Sayid shot Ben.

Remember, Lost was originally planned to be 5 seasons long.
Season 1 was great character development but didnt have the substance that seasons 2, 4, and 5 have. The plot and mythology is what makes Lost great to me and this season has the had the most of both parts.

My fave Lost seasons:

S4
S5
S2
S1
S3
 04-01-2009, 02:24 PM         #566
enterthepac 
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 80sbabyent said:
Maybe, maybe not, Faraday clearly said that he wouldnt tell the red head chick whatever she said he told her when she was a kid, but that contradicts him saying whatever happened happened. its got to be one or the other either what happened happened or you can not do something that supposedly already happened, which makes no sense either... thats why people get confused, the interpretations on what is said and what happens on the show are subjective and endless
Whatever happened happened IS the rule
Faraday said that he wouldnt tell her w/e she said he told her...but theorertically he did, since the future RedHead said he did. So basically, when she died, he said he wouldnt but he is gonna go back on that and tell her b/c it happened already...if he never told her, then he wouldnt have met her in 2005 or w/e year there were at b4 they went back in time.
He prolly just said he wouldnt b/c he was distraught cuz she just died, but he will realize he cant change the future so he will end up telling her
 9 years ago '08        #567
KarteL13 
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 enterthepac said:
Whatever happened happened IS the rule
Faraday said that he wouldnt tell her w/e she said he told her...but theorertically he did, since the future RedHead said he did. So basically, when she died, he said he wouldnt but he is gonna go back on that and tell her b/c it happened already...if he never told her, then he wouldnt have met her in 2005 or w/e year there were at b4 they went back in time.
He prolly just said he wouldnt b/c he was distraught cuz she just died, but he will realize he cant change the future so he will end up telling her
Wait a minute, I thought Faraday told Charlotte NOT to come back to the Island but she did it anyways?
 04-01-2009, 03:51 PM         #568
DHARMA 
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Part Two: Whatever Happened, Happened
what the hell does that mean, and why doesn't the LOSTies messing around in the past change the future like in Back to the Future?

In order to understand how past and future interact (aka: how can Locke messing with Alpert "always" have happened, even when he wasn't even born yet, not to mention he din't time travel to the 50's yet) we have to understand a few things about time that I left out in the first post (to avoid confusion, as it doesn't really play into this). We now have to abandon our understanding of time as a fixed sequence of events from A to Z (the blue line ... it doesn't really represent time itself, but time as we perceive it). Instead, we have to accept that this whole "linearity of time" is just the result of our subjective perception of time, but by no means a fact.

So ... time itself is not actually a line, but something much more abstract, where everything happens instantly, at the very same moment ...
so basically the Big Bang = beginning & end of the universe + everything in between (bear with me, it makes sense in the end).

Our perception of time as a linear sequence of events is simply the result of our one-directional movement through this mass of events (the 4-dimensional space, as physicists call it ... errr ... I think). So time itself isn't flowing anywhere, but we are moving through time (relativity ftw!). Think of it as a goldfish swimming through a bowl filled with all the past, present and future events of its life. The goldfish's route is a line, time is the bowl full of events. Thus, user AxMan will be very right a few posts later (here we got some future post influencing my past post ... mind-boggling, innit? :D):

This explains, how time travel to the future is possible in the first place: time travellers move through time differently ... not in a straight line, but in a zig-zag-pattern (they jump from certain points on their suppossed route to other points ... back and forth, whatever). time travel isn't chronological (our perception of time is, it's 1sec a sec into one, and only one direction) ... it's chrono-illogical (and science fiction btw)
Thus, things that (from our point of view) haven't happened yet can influence things in (our subjective) past ... even though they haven't happened yet from our point of view ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, since I know how time-consuming this work is (lots of thanks to Faragay for this thread) and I can't sleep anyway, I thought I would continue.

There are two theories about time travel. One says you can change the past, one says that you can't. There are several examples for fiction that falls in each of those categories. In some books or movies, you can change the past, which creates a new timeline that splits off from the "main timeline" the protagonist started in.


[pic - click to view]



That's how Ashton Kutcher saves Amy Smart in Butterfly Effect. That's how Marty McFly turns his father from a spineless loser into a successful sci-fi writer (and gets a kickass Jeep out of the deal).

Other forms of fiction claim that there is only one timeline. Several Twilight Zone episodes come to mind. So does Lost. And I'm pretty sure our real world works like that as well.

As you can see in the pictures Faragay had in the original post, there is one timeline, represented by the blue arrow.


[pic - click to view]



The past is in the past, the future is ahead of us. But the thing is: The past has already happened to us. Whatever happened then, happened. Take World War 2 for example. That has happened. It is in the history books, and those that are old enough still remember it. Now I know that some of you might say "but what if someone could go back in time to a.ssassinate Hitler when he was a child, wouldn't that change history and all the history books with them"? If you go with the "Back to the Future" form of time travel, that might even be true.
But the main difference with the second form of time travel fiction is that there are no alternate timelines splitting from the "main timeline". There is only the blue arrow, no forks in the road. And even if there were, that still wouldn't be enough to change the "main timeline".
If you don't get that, I'll give you an example.

Suppose you could go back to 1905 and k!ll a young Adolf Hitler. If that would create a second timeline, than what happens to the first one? If it runs parallel to the new timeline, then we can disregard that second timeline, because we are still in the original timeline (it's true, check a history book or Wikipedia: World War 2 happened in our timeline).
If the new timeline replaced the original timeline, the War would disappear out of our history books. But... it didn't.
For better or worse (well, in this case: worse), World War 2 did happen in our timeline.


[pic - click to view]



But what does that mean if someone actually did travel back in time to a.ssassinate Hitler? We'd have two possible outcomes.

In one version, it's just not possible to k!ll the sonofab***h. If you tried to shoot him, the gun would jam or even backfire. If you tried to stab him, he'd survive. If you tried to sneak a bomb under his table at a conference, well... watch Valkyrie to see how that would end.


[pic - click to view]



Your plan can be as foolproof as you want it to be, Murphy's Law (also known as "destiny") would still find a way to make it fail.

The other possible outcome is that you travel back in time and actually manage to k!ll Hitler as a child, maybe as a baby. But what would happen then? Destiny would find a way to make your deed undone. Not by resurrecting dead baby Hitler as an undead (though that would make for an entertaining film), but by , for example.

In Lost, both things can happen. Some things are meant to happen regardless of what we do (at this point in time, it seems like Daniel will try to warn a young Charlotte never to come back to the island, but she will forget the whole scene until thirty seconds before she dies - on the island).


[pic - click to view]



In other cases, the details might change, but the outcome is still the same (you can build a lightning rod to prevent Charlie from getting hit by a bolt of lightning, but he will still drown in the Looking Glass station).


[pic - click to view]



Eloise called this sort of thing "course correction" way back in "Flashes Before Our Eyes". Right now it seems that most of the characters will only get option one (the backfiring gun), whereas Desmond might get option two (course correcting), probably because something happened to him when he turned the key in the Season Two finale. But in any case, destiny has its way.

So whatever happens, happens. If we ever find a way to travel back in time, we can't do anything that would interfere with the history we know. Because everything we'd do to prevent something from happening wouldn't change a thing or even lead to that very event that we wanted to change. We know it would, because for us, it already happened (see Faragay's post above). The only thing we can do is live between the lines of the history books. Sawyer never learned that there was nobody named LaFleur living with the Dharma Initiative from 1974 to 1977. So when he jumped back and a.ssumed that identity, it didn't contradict what has happened before.
 9 years ago '08        #569
KarteL13 
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Dharma, are you the nerd that is writing all of this garbage?
 04-01-2009, 05:05 PM         #570
DHARMA 
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 KarteL13 said:
Dharma, are you the nerd that is writing all of this garbage?
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night ...
 04-01-2009, 05:12 PM         #571
DHARMA 
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 80sbabyent said:
Maybe, maybe not, Faraday clearly said that he wouldnt tell the red head chick whatever she said he told her when she was a kid, but that contradicts him saying whatever happened happened. its got to be one or the other either what happened happened or you can not do something that supposedly already happened, which makes no sense either... thats why people get confused, the interpretations on what is said and what happens on the show are subjective and endless
If we haven't witnessed those things, then those aren't really changes. It has always happened this way. Us not knowing that doesn't factor in.

I think the course correction thing only applies to Desmond. The others can't change anything to begin with. In other words, it was Desmond's destiny to save Charlie to allow him to enter the Looking Glass, and Charlie's destiny to switch off the jamming mechanism and die thereafter. It appears as course-correction to us, but was always intended to happen in the grand scale of things. Desmond didn't change destiny, he simply fulfilled it.

If Charlie had died with the lightning, or by Ethan, or drowning, or any of the other ways, the Freighter would have still made it to the Island. Because Daniel travels back in time and tells Charlotte to never come back... etc. So he makes it there somehow someway. It probably would have just been someone else down there, but they wouldn't have died, because Charlie just had it in. And that's probably why Mikail kept avoiding death, because he HAD to k!ll Charlie down in the Looking Glass.
 9 years ago '06        #572
illathruz 65 heat pts65
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i wonder if Bea Klugh's list of jack, kate, sawyer, and hugo has anything to do with how they treated ben as a child.
 9 years ago '05        #573
BlaznHizzle|M 3 heat pts
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this is one of the wackest episodes so far..
 9 years ago '06        #574
illathruz 65 heat pts65
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so thats how ben became cold hearted... anybody know the structure that richard took ben into?
 04-01-2009, 09:03 PM         #575
DHARMA 
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 BlaznHizzle said:
this is one of the wackest episodes so far..
There has never been a good Kate-centric episode.

She is nice to look at, but by far one of the most boring characters ... :greetings10:
 04-01-2009, 09:03 PM         #576
DHARMA 
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 illathruz said:
so thats how ben became cold hearted... anybody know the structure that richard took ben into?
It was the Temple.
 04-01-2009, 09:08 PM         #577
DHARMA 
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Does anyone think this is the Tom we know in the future?


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 04-01-2009, 09:41 PM         #578
RicFlair 
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tom in the future? i dont remember who that is



whats the site you got that guide from dharma? id like to peep
 9 years ago '05        #579
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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That was single handedly the greatest hour of network television in the past 3 years.
 9 years ago '05        #580
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 KarteL13 said:
No, you're the idiot.

Just like Fate playing a big part in "not changing the future", Sayid going back in time and shooting Ben "doesn't change the future", or change Ben. It shouldn't.

Ben's timeline has been established up to this point.

In theory, Sayid going back in time SHOULD change the future if we're following the typical time travel agenda. But since Lost already established that past events doesn't affect the outcome of the future, Sayid shooting Ben was nothing more of a typical Lost shocker cliff hanger.
Sweet Jesus. Your a moron. Sayid ALWAYS shot Ben in Bens timeline. Sayid didnt experience it yet because Sayid didnt shoot Ben while SAYID was a kid. He shot Ben while SAYID was an adult. Wtf dont you understand!?!?!?!?!?!!
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