LOST Season 5 Discussion Thread

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 9 years ago '05        #541
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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 03-31-2009, 09:19 PM         #542
DHARMA 
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Since there still seems to be an awful lot of confusion about time travel (TT) in LOST, ... here is: Faragay4Faraday tries to explain the rules of LOSTian Time Travel ... as simple as possible. there is nothing new in this thread ... those who already know how the rules are to be applied won't find anything they don't already know in here

Part One: Life lines, time lines and the Relativity of Past & Future

Hello,

Welcome to Part One of this thread. I will now answer some of the questions that I came across on this board too often to not be annoyed by them. I know, a lot of you already know how it works ... but there's obviously still enough confusion out there to justify this thread, seeing how a lot of non-geek LPmembers are still left like


Why all the confusion? The concept of TT in LOST is really quite simple and easy to grasp, once to learned how to tell apart time as we know it (the beginning of the universe → end of the universe sequence of events we all live in) from the LOSTies personal lifes ... and thus, their relativity to time as such.

Usually, we all travel thru time at a speed of approx. 1Sec per second. Not very suprising, I know. So we all move thru a sequence of events of from our births to our death ... okay.

One of the pitfalls on LOST is, that the LOSTies perceive their lives like we all do (a certain sequence of events, from A to B to C), but move thru time as such differently ... bear with me:


here's a demonstrative example: James 'Sawyer' Ford LaFeur

Born in Jasper, Alabama in 1969, he loses his mom and dad due to the hideous doings of a man named Anthony Cooper at the age of 8 (in 1977).

James grows up to be a pretty good con man, and swears to avenge his parent's death. In 2004, some dude tips him off about the alleged whereabouts of Anthony Cooper. Thus, Sawyer travels to Australia to k!ll the man. Well James, you've just been conn'd ...
On his way home, 35-year-old James' plane crashes on a mysterious Island, where he is forced to live with various nutjobs reaching from junkie ex-rockstars to a creepy bald guy with one helluve knife fetish. He learns that the people who used to live on the Island, the guys who built all the nice houses and crazy Dharma stations, have been purged by the Island's original inhabitants (they at least claim to be more indigenous than the DI is) in 1992.

At some point in early 2005, some of the survivors are rescued, but James decides to stay behind ... not knowing, that behind really means ... far behind ... James suddenly TIME TRAVELS!!!

up this point, James' life followed the usual time path as we perceive it ... as depicted here


[pic - click to view]




I don't think there's anything not to understand up to that point ... right?


... but ... time travel being the b***h it is ... from the events of 2005 onwards, James life departs from the usual time line, and goes back nearly 30 years: to the groovy 1970's. so ... we have to draw the red line back to the 70's, and let it flow from there a second time (in order to follow Sawyer's progression, ignore the blue line, and follow the red one ... that's his life)


[pic - click to view]



So ... in 1974 ... where he suddenly meets the people who built all the houses, stations (and will end up in a mass grave). He also meets their nemesis, Richard Alpert (see diagram). James and his remaining friends join the Dharma Initiative in Dharmaville, where they live happily ever after ... at least until the people who left the Island return 3 years later in 1977.


------------------------------------------------------

The questions that arise amongst some irritated LPmembers are mainly:

Q: Why doesn't 2004 Sawyer remember being part of the DI?

A: Well ... because he is 35 years old, and won't join the DI until he is 36 ... how could he remember something that a year ahead of him? Just have a look at the diagram ... focus on the red line (Sawyer's life). See what I mean?

Q: So ... 2004 is the past, and 1974 is the future???

A: For 1974 Sawyer, yes ... 2004 is in his past. in reverse: for 2004 Sawyer his times with the DI in 1974 are still in the future (it hasn't happened to him yet)

Q: So ... when he goes back to the 70's ... does that mean there's two Sawyers in the world?

A: Absolutely ... in 1977 we have 39-year-old DI Sheriff Sawyer, and 8-year-old about to witness the tragedy of his life Sawyer off the Island. Again, look at the red line ... there's is two of them after the time travel took place = two Sawyers

Q: could the two Sawyers meet ... couldn't Sheriff Sawyer just go to the mainland and prevent the death of his own parents?

A: Theoratically, he probably could. On LOST however, he won't do that ... even tho TPTB will explain that with course correction, or Sawyer's uber-cool „What's done's done“attitude, or Chang's possibly exploding Nr. 15 rabbits (based on the idea that two versions of the same entity are possibly dangerous near each other ... see Richard Kelly's awesome film Southland Tales). don't let TPTB fool you: its nothing but a simple narrative trick to prevent paradoxes. It's a TV show after all ...

Any other questions about that issue? Post them here.

Next time in this thread:
Part Two: Whatever happened, happened ... what the hell does that mean, and why doesn't the LOSTies messing around in the past change the future like in Back to the Future?


Last edited by DHARMA; 03-31-2009 at 09:20 PM..
 03-31-2009, 09:36 PM         #543
HeavenlySword 
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^^


[pic - click to view]

 9 years ago '06        #544
NYGiantsHUSTLER 26 heat pts26
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 KarteL13 said:
Because they are two seperate time lines. Ben's current behavior should be independent to the Sayid shooting.
no not at all.. sayid always shot ben in 77, 04 sayid didnt remember cause he hadnt experienced it yet
 9 years ago '05        #545
ReppinDaBurghh 55 heat pts55
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The people that are confused are idiots.
 03-31-2009, 09:45 PM         #546
DHARMA 
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 NYGiantsHUSTLER said:
no not at all.. sayid always shot ben in 77, 04 sayid didnt remember cause he hadnt experienced it yet
Someone finally gets it ... :agreement6:

You can't remember something that hasn't happened to you yet.

Ben has always known the Losties and Juliet ever since he was 12 years old and then BAM they show up on the island again 20 years later and haven't aged at all ...
 03-31-2009, 09:52 PM         #547
HeavenlySword 
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Its most likely the people who havent watched Lost since season 1 are the most confused......the story kinda retells itself after the end of the 3rd season....the events have already happened, we're just watching everything play out......kinda like watching a prequel......


Last edited by HeavenlySword; 03-31-2009 at 09:53 PM..
 9 years ago '08        #548
KarteL13 
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 Reppindaburghh said:
The people that are confused are idiots.
No, you're the idiot.

Just like Fate playing a big part in "not changing the future", Sayid going back in time and shooting Ben "doesn't change the future", or change Ben. It shouldn't.

Ben's timeline has been established up to this point.

In theory, Sayid going back in time SHOULD change the future if we're following the typical time travel agenda. But since Lost already established that past events doesn't affect the outcome of the future, Sayid shooting Ben was nothing more of a typical Lost shocker cliff hanger.


Last edited by KarteL13; 03-31-2009 at 11:28 PM..
 9 years ago '08        #549
KarteL13 
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 DHARMA said:
Since there still seems to be an awful lot of confusion about time travel (TT) in LOST, ... here is: Faragay4Faraday tries to explain the rules of LOSTian Time Travel ... as simple as possible. there is nothing new in this thread ... those who already know how the rules are to be applied won't find anything they don't already know in here

Part One: Life lines, time lines and the Relativity of Past & Future

Hello,

Welcome to Part One of this thread. I will now answer some of the questions that I came across on this board too often to not be annoyed by them. I know, a lot of you already know how it works ... but there's obviously still enough confusion out there to justify this thread, seeing how a lot of non-geek LPmembers are still left like


Why all the confusion? The concept of TT in LOST is really quite simple and easy to grasp, once to learned how to tell apart time as we know it (the beginning of the universe → end of the universe sequence of events we all live in) from the LOSTies personal lifes ... and thus, their relativity to time as such.

Usually, we all travel thru time at a speed of approx. 1Sec per second. Not very suprising, I know. So we all move thru a sequence of events of from our births to our death ... okay.

One of the pitfalls on LOST is, that the LOSTies perceive their lives like we all do (a certain sequence of events, from A to B to C), but move thru time as such differently ... bear with me:


here's a demonstrative example: James 'Sawyer' Ford LaFeur

Born in Jasper, Alabama in 1969, he loses his mom and dad due to the hideous doings of a man named Anthony Cooper at the age of 8 (in 1977).

James grows up to be a pretty good con man, and swears to avenge his parent's death. In 2004, some dude tips him off about the alleged whereabouts of Anthony Cooper. Thus, Sawyer travels to Australia to k!ll the man. Well James, you've just been conn'd ...
On his way home, 35-year-old James' plane crashes on a mysterious Island, where he is forced to live with various nutjobs reaching from junkie ex-rockstars to a creepy bald guy with one helluve knife fetish. He learns that the people who used to live on the Island, the guys who built all the nice houses and crazy Dharma stations, have been purged by the Island's original inhabitants (they at least claim to be more indigenous than the DI is) in 1992.

At some point in early 2005, some of the survivors are rescued, but James decides to stay behind ... not knowing, that behind really means ... far behind ... James suddenly TIME TRAVELS!!!

up this point, James' life followed the usual time path as we perceive it ... as depicted here


[pic - click to view]




I don't think there's anything not to understand up to that point ... right?


... but ... time travel being the b***h it is ... from the events of 2005 onwards, James life departs from the usual time line, and goes back nearly 30 years: to the groovy 1970's. so ... we have to draw the red line back to the 70's, and let it flow from there a second time (in order to follow Sawyer's progression, ignore the blue line, and follow the red one ... that's his life)


[pic - click to view]



So ... in 1974 ... where he suddenly meets the people who built all the houses, stations (and will end up in a mass grave). He also meets their nemesis, Richard Alpert (see diagram). James and his remaining friends join the Dharma Initiative in Dharmaville, where they live happily ever after ... at least until the people who left the Island return 3 years later in 1977.


------------------------------------------------------

The questions that arise amongst some irritated LPmembers are mainly:

Q: Why doesn't 2004 Sawyer remember being part of the DI?

A: Well ... because he is 35 years old, and won't join the DI until he is 36 ... how could he remember something that a year ahead of him? Just have a look at the diagram ... focus on the red line (Sawyer's life). See what I mean?

Q: So ... 2004 is the past, and 1974 is the future???

A: For 1974 Sawyer, yes ... 2004 is in his past. in reverse: for 2004 Sawyer his times with the DI in 1974 are still in the future (it hasn't happened to him yet)

Q: So ... when he goes back to the 70's ... does that mean there's two Sawyers in the world?

A: Absolutely ... in 1977 we have 39-year-old DI Sheriff Sawyer, and 8-year-old about to witness the tragedy of his life Sawyer off the Island. Again, look at the red line ... there's is two of them after the time travel took place = two Sawyers

Q: could the two Sawyers meet ... couldn't Sheriff Sawyer just go to the mainland and prevent the death of his own parents?

A: Theoratically, he probably could. On LOST however, he won't do that ... even tho TPTB will explain that with course correction, or Sawyer's uber-cool „What's done's done“attitude, or Chang's possibly exploding Nr. 15 rabbits (based on the idea that two versions of the same entity are possibly dangerous near each other ... see Richard Kelly's awesome film Southland Tales). don't let TPTB fool you: its nothing but a simple narrative trick to prevent paradoxes. It's a TV show after all ...

Any other questions about that issue? Post them here.

Next time in this thread:
Part Two: Whatever happened, happened ... what the hell does that mean, and why doesn't the LOSTies messing around in the past change the future like in Back to the Future?
What no p***y nerd wrote this? Jesus Christ, I hope the person gets paid to do this.

Anyways, I knew it was a bold move for Lost to implement time travel in this and it looks like its back firing. A lot of casual fans have just said the hell with it and their ratings are steadily declining. Its getting to "Heroes" territory which is shouldn't because Lost is a superior show.
 9 years ago '06        #550
illathruz 65 heat pts65
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 KarteL13 said:
No, you're the idiot.

Just like Fate playing a big part in "not changing the future", Sayid going back in time and shooting Ben "doesn't change the future", or change Ben. It shouldn't.

Ben's timeline has been established up to this point.

In theory, Sayid going back in time SHOULD change the future if we're following the typical time travel agenda. But since Lost already established that past events doesn't affect the outcome of the future, Sayid shooting Ben was nothing more of a typical Lost shocker cliff hanger.
okay, i see what you do now. you go from thread to thread acting stupid. you were just in the heroes thread saying some gay s**t about sylar. its funny cus no matter where you go on this forum, each section has a douchebag that posts too much. in the hiphopspot its ghetto guevera

if you honestly don't understand, listen: when ben was a kid, he got shot by an arab. when he grew up, he met the same arab again. ben was like, what the fu*k. well it turns out the arab went back in time after meeting ben in the 90s. so it was the first time for the arab, and the second time for ben.


Last edited by illathruz; 04-01-2009 at 12:55 AM..
 04-01-2009, 02:09 AM         #551
beauxjangles 
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 DHARMA said:
Someone finally gets it ... :agreement6:

You can't remember something that hasn't happened to you yet.

Ben has always known the Losties and Juliet ever since he was 12 years old and then BAM they show up on the island again 20 years later and haven't aged at all ...

i hope this hasn;t been said already but do you think that ben is laid out on the bed in 2004 because he is dying in 77?

i know he got whacked over the head but the fact that little ben got shot may have an effect on older ben. if young ben were to die old been would die too.

Think about what happened to the red head. she "died" because her past was changed??????
 04-01-2009, 03:16 AM         #552
YounG_FaMe 
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man that had my ideas boggling
 9 years ago '07        #553
Eddie..|M 12 heat pts12
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 beauxjangles said:
i hope this hasn;t been said already but do you think that ben is laid out on the bed in 2004 because he is dying in 77?

i know he got whacked over the head but the fact that little ben got shot may have an effect on older ben. if young ben were to die old been would die too.

Think about what happened to the red head. she "died" because her past was changed??????
but he already got shot and already got saved. so no, he's laying there because he got wacked.

I don't understand why people just don't understand that everything already happened back in the 70's. how is that so hard to understand?
 04-01-2009, 10:00 AM         #554
80sbabyent 
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 Eddie.. said:
but he already got shot and already got saved. so no, he's laying there because he got wacked.

I don't understand why people just don't understand that everything already happened back in the 70's. how is that so hard to understand?
Maybe, maybe not, Faraday clearly said that he wouldnt tell the red head chick whatever she said he told her when she was a kid, but that contradicts him saying whatever happened happened. its got to be one or the other either what happened happened or you can not do something that supposedly already happened, which makes no sense either... thats why people get confused, the interpretations on what is said and what happens on the show are subjective and endless
 9 years ago '08        #555
KarteL13 
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 illathruz said:
okay, i see what you do now. you go from thread to thread acting stupid. you were just in the heroes thread saying some gay s**t about sylar. its funny cus no matter where you go on this forum, each section has a douchebag that posts too much. in the hiphopspot its ghetto guevera

if you honestly don't understand, listen: when ben was a kid, he got shot by an arab. when he grew up, he met the same arab again. ben was like, what the f**k. well it turns out the arab went back in time after meeting ben in the 90s. so it was the first time for the arab, and the second time for ben.
You're wrong. You're completely wrong. You idiots have no idea what you're talking about.

And what "gay s**t" did I say about Sylar? It was a theory. Jesus, I can tell you dropped out of high school.
 9 years ago '06        #556
illathruz 65 heat pts65
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 KarteL13 said:
You're wrong. You're completely wrong. You idiots have no idea what you're talking about.

And what "gay s**t" did I say about Sylar? It was a theory. Jesus, I can tell you dropped out of high school.
listen, the personal attacks wont help you. you are known for the inability to comprehend basic plot points. i'm not the first one who's called you out. if you shut up and listen, and watch the shows, you might actually learn something.

if you can't understand the basic concpet that they are lost in time, then i doubt the rest of the show will be entertaining for you. if you dont understand that 37-year old sayid shot 10 year old ben, while 36-year old sayid was conned by 42-year old ben... well, i don't know what to say
 9 years ago '08        #557
KarteL13 
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 illathruz said:
listen, the personal attacks wont help you. you are known for the inability to comprehend basic plot points. i'm not the first one who's called you out. if you shut up and listen, and watch the shows, you might actually learn something.

if you can't understand the basic concpet that they are lost in time, then i doubt the rest of the show will be entertaining for you. if you dont understand that 37-year old sayid shot 10 year old ben, while 36-year old sayid was conned by 42-year old ben... well, i don't know what to say
LOL @ personal attacks. You're the dumb f**k that started popping off in the first place.


Do yourself a favor and wash ya face breh.
 9 years ago '04        #558
goke11429 3 heat pts
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 DHARMA said:
Since there still seems to be an awful lot of confusion about time travel (TT) in LOST, ... here is: Faragay4Faraday tries to explain the rules of LOSTian Time Travel ... as simple as possible. there is nothing new in this thread ... those who already know how the rules are to be applied won't find anything they don't already know in here

Part One: Life lines, time lines and the Relativity of Past & Future

Hello,

Welcome to Part One of this thread. I will now answer some of the questions that I came across on this board too often to not be annoyed by them. I know, a lot of you already know how it works ... but there's obviously still enough confusion out there to justify this thread, seeing how a lot of non-geek LPmembers are still left like


Why all the confusion? The concept of TT in LOST is really quite simple and easy to grasp, once to learned how to tell apart time as we know it (the beginning of the universe → end of the universe sequence of events we all live in) from the LOSTies personal lifes ... and thus, their relativity to time as such.

Usually, we all travel thru time at a speed of approx. 1Sec per second. Not very suprising, I know. So we all move thru a sequence of events of from our births to our death ... okay.

One of the pitfalls on LOST is, that the LOSTies perceive their lives like we all do (a certain sequence of events, from A to B to C), but move thru time as such differently ... bear with me:


here's a demonstrative example: James 'Sawyer' Ford LaFeur

Born in Jasper, Alabama in 1969, he loses his mom and dad due to the hideous doings of a man named Anthony Cooper at the age of 8 (in 1977).

James grows up to be a pretty good con man, and swears to avenge his parent's death. In 2004, some dude tips him off about the alleged whereabouts of Anthony Cooper. Thus, Sawyer travels to Australia to k!ll the man. Well James, you've just been conn'd ...
On his way home, 35-year-old James' plane crashes on a mysterious Island, where he is forced to live with various nutjobs reaching from junkie ex-rockstars to a creepy bald guy with one helluve knife fetish. He learns that the people who used to live on the Island, the guys who built all the nice houses and crazy Dharma stations, have been purged by the Island's original inhabitants (they at least claim to be more indigenous than the DI is) in 1992.

At some point in early 2005, some of the survivors are rescued, but James decides to stay behind ... not knowing, that behind really means ... far behind ... James suddenly TIME TRAVELS!!!

up this point, James' life followed the usual time path as we perceive it ... as depicted here


[pic - click to view]




I don't think there's anything not to understand up to that point ... right?


... but ... time travel being the b***h it is ... from the events of 2005 onwards, James life departs from the usual time line, and goes back nearly 30 years: to the groovy 1970's. so ... we have to draw the red line back to the 70's, and let it flow from there a second time (in order to follow Sawyer's progression, ignore the blue line, and follow the red one ... that's his life)


[pic - click to view]



So ... in 1974 ... where he suddenly meets the people who built all the houses, stations (and will end up in a mass grave). He also meets their nemesis, Richard Alpert (see diagram). James and his remaining friends join the Dharma Initiative in Dharmaville, where they live happily ever after ... at least until the people who left the Island return 3 years later in 1977.


------------------------------------------------------

The questions that arise amongst some irritated LPmembers are mainly:

Q: Why doesn't 2004 Sawyer remember being part of the DI?

A: Well ... because he is 35 years old, and won't join the DI until he is 36 ... how could he remember something that a year ahead of him? Just have a look at the diagram ... focus on the red line (Sawyer's life). See what I mean?

Q: So ... 2004 is the past, and 1974 is the future???

A: For 1974 Sawyer, yes ... 2004 is in his past. in reverse: for 2004 Sawyer his times with the DI in 1974 are still in the future (it hasn't happened to him yet)

Q: So ... when he goes back to the 70's ... does that mean there's two Sawyers in the world?

A: Absolutely ... in 1977 we have 39-year-old DI Sheriff Sawyer, and 8-year-old about to witness the tragedy of his life Sawyer off the Island. Again, look at the red line ... there's is two of them after the time travel took place = two Sawyers

Q: could the two Sawyers meet ... couldn't Sheriff Sawyer just go to the mainland and prevent the death of his own parents?

A: Theoratically, he probably could. On LOST however, he won't do that ... even tho TPTB will explain that with course correction, or Sawyer's uber-cool „What's done's done“attitude, or Chang's possibly exploding Nr. 15 rabbits (based on the idea that two versions of the same entity are possibly dangerous near each other ... see Richard Kelly's awesome film Southland Tales). don't let TPTB fool you: its nothing but a simple narrative trick to prevent paradoxes. It's a TV show after all ...

Any other questions about that issue? Post them here.

Next time in this thread:
Part Two: Whatever happened, happened ... what the hell does that mean, and why doesn't the LOSTies messing around in the past change the future like in Back to the Future?




thanks for posting this guide
 9 years ago '07        #559
Eddie..|M 12 heat pts12
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 80sbabyent said:
Maybe, maybe not, Faraday clearly said that he wouldnt tell the red head chick whatever she said he told her when she was a kid, but that contradicts him saying whatever happened happened. its got to be one or the other either what happened happened or you can not do something that supposedly already happened, which makes no sense either... thats why people get confused, the interpretations on what is said and what happens on the show are subjective and endless
what episode did faraday say he wasn't gonna tell her???
 9 years ago '06        #560
modalee 5 heat pts
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The concepts of time travel on Lost are very easy to understand. Also tonights episode is most likely going to explain the faraday theory "what happened happened" since that is the name of the episode and we should also find out more about what Kate did to Aaron.
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