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 9 years ago '04        #361
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 KSoraci7 said:
I think this whole debate has to do with "is it easier to score back then, or now against the different defenses, rules, player size etc."

It seems as if you were undermining players from the 90's specifically MJ, which is why i brought up the fact about his scoring at 40 only 5 years ago. But you make it seem as tho just a few years ago, right before the handchecking rule, D was either sh*t or players were nothing like they are now physically. That is what i disagreed with.

Interesting facts tho on that bballreference stuff.
I wasn't undermining MJ's accomplishments and skills at all. But his "supportors", for lack of better word, seem to think that today's NBA is a joke and that he would just be able to waltz around and drop 45 a game.
As if handchecking is the be all and end all of all defense and nothing else matters.
All I've been trying to prove the last few posts is that handchecking isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
 9 years ago '08        #362
primetime 60 heat pts60
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1) They weren't better defenders & there were just as many fouls in back then as there is now. The only difference is that flagrants are called more often for hard fouls .

they weren't better defenders but those defenders were allowed to do a lot more to an offensive player than those of today

That's a bullsh*t stat because 1) Shaq was there (and GP & Malone in 04-05) and he wasn't getting as many shots 2) because his percentage is almost the same as it has been since his 3rd year in the NBA 3) since he's taken more shots per game.

kobe took more shots than shaq while they played together and in 03-04 malone and payton avg 22 shots per game kobe had enough shots.

He's been averaging over 5apg since 00-01. Stop reaching.

How many seasons did Reggie Miller play under the new rules? 1?

what does that have to do with anything? he played during the hand checking era and guarded bryant many times so what does ur statement have to do anything with this?

Plus hand checking is RARELY called in the NBA today. It's supposed to be called but how many times have you seen a hand checking foul called when you've watched (if you actually do watch) basketball?
-- Celtics were hand checking all series, how many times did it get called - none.
Do you have any real points?

that's because it was banned u idiot, if players start constantly hand check they will be called every time

And if the absense of hand checking has increased scoring, then why was the 80's & 90's the time when they had the highest scoring averages?[/QUOTE]

Nobody said that the absence of hand checking increased scoring for teams, it helped great perimeter players get where they want and get a shot off with ease. plus 80s and 90s were a faster era of basketball
 9 years ago '06        #363
Soraci7 34 heat pts34
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 str8_akademiks said:
I wasn't undermining MJ's accomplishments and skills at all. But his "supportors", for lack of better word, seem to think that today's NBA is a joke and that he would just be able to waltz around and drop 45 a game.
As if handchecking is the be all and end all of all defense and nothing else matters.
All I've been trying to prove the last few posts is that handchecking isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Athelticism now > Overrated handchecking sh*t.

But i think players had better bbIQ in the 80's/90's then now, it was more of a team sport then individual, which is why people knew when to rotate and know their role back then much more so than now. Now its a primadona league which is why scoring is up, and teams don't play as much D. To sum it up, Dream Team III would sh*t on this past Olympic squad.
 9 years ago '08        #364
PEK 16 heat pts16
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 str8_akademiks said:
I wasn't undermining MJ's accomplishments and skills at all. But his "supportors", for lack of better word, seem to think that today's NBA is a joke and that he would just be able to waltz around and drop 45 a game.
As if handchecking is the be all and end all of all defense and nothing else matters.
All I've been trying to prove the last few posts is that handchecking isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
You got it twisted homie. It's Kobe "supporters" who try to discredit MJ's era. Look at how many times yall bring up Zone D and act like there were no athletes around when MJ played. You got one clown in this thread saying MJ would avg 12ppg if he played today. And handchecking was tough, next time you go play ball ask someone to handcheck you, then try a crossover lets see what happens..:greetings10:
 9 years ago '04        #365
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 KSoraci7 said:
Athelticism now > Overrated handchecking sh*t.

But i think players had better bbIQ in the 80's/90's then now, it was more of a team sport then individual, which is why people knew when to rotate and know their role back then much more so than now. Now its a primadona league which is why scoring is up, and teams don't play as much D. To sum it up, Dream Team III would sh*t on this past Olympic squad.
See that's where I think people have it all messed up. The reason why zone was implemented WAS to advocate more of a team game. Back when it was a purely man-to-man game, the game was being dominated by scorers who could isolate every time and it actually took away from the team concept.
And many people don't know that the zone defense was actually outlawed in the BAA (NBA precursor) because it was so successful and because it kept scoring down. (read near the end)


The one complaint of zone defense is that you don't need great defensive players to execute a great defense. Players can be lacking in defense and still have their deficiencies hidden by the zone. If you play a combination man-zone that's designed to collapse and have your best defensive players on the best offensive player (like Boston last year), it's even more effective.
 9 years ago '04        #366
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 PEK said:
You got it twisted homie. It's Kobe "supporters" who try to discredit MJ's era. Look at how many times yall bring up Zone D and act like there were no athletes around when MJ played. You got one clown in this thread saying MJ would avg 12ppg if he played today. And handchecking was tough, next time you go play ball ask someone to handcheck you, then try a crossover lets see what happens..:greetings10:
I play ball whenever I can, but damn, we don't play NBA rules.
A lot of people think that hand checking is completely outlawed, but you see any game this year, and I guarantee it WON'T get called more times than it DOES.
I witnessed hand checking with my own eyes every single game when I watched the Lakers play, and I didn't see a hand-checking foul called ONCE during the entire playoffs. And I doubt it's because players don't do it anymore.
 9 years ago '05        #367
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 str8_akademiks said:
See that's where I think people have it all messed up. The reason why zone was implemented WAS to advocate more of a team game. Back when it was a purely man-to-man game, the game was being dominated by scorers who could isolate every time and it actually took away from the team concept.
And many people don't know that the zone defense was actually outlawed in the BAA (NBA precursor) because it was so successful and because it kept scoring down. (read near the end)


The one complaint of zone defense is that you don't need great defensive players to execute a great defense. Players can be lacking in defense and still have their deficiencies hidden by the zone. If you play a combination man-zone that's designed to collapse and have your best defensive players on the best offensive player (like Boston last year), it's even more effective.
:applause::agreement6:
 9 years ago '08        #368
PEK 16 heat pts16
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 str8_akademiks said:
See that's where I think people have it all messed up. The reason why zone was implemented WAS to advocate more of a team game. Back when it was a purely man-to-man game, the game was being dominated by scorers who could isolate every time and it actually took away from the team concept.
And many people don't know that the zone defense was actually outlawed in the BAA (NBA precursor) because it was so successful and because it kept scoring down. (read near the end)


The one complaint of zone defense is that you don't need great defensive players to execute a great defense. Players can be lacking in defense and still have their deficiencies hidden by the zone. If you play a combination man-zone that's designed to collapse and have your best defensive players on the best offensive player (like Boston last year), it's even more effective.
The thing about zone as it relates to MJ fans is he played with those rules at 40 with bad knees coming off a 3 year hiatus and was still an all star. So if he was in his prime its pretty safe to say he would have still been a god on the court. Kobe "supporters" refuse to acknowledge this fact.
 9 years ago '08        #369
primetime 60 heat pts60
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this is a response to the video str8 akademicks posted.


Last edited by primetime; 12-08-2008 at 10:40 PM..
 9 years ago '08        #370
primetime 60 heat pts60
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 PEK said:
The thing about zone as it relates to MJ fans is he played with those rules at 40 with bad knees coming off a 3 year hiatus and was still an all star. So if he was in his prime its pretty safe to say he would have still been a god on the court. Kobe "supporters" refuse to acknowledge this fact.
kobe supporters refuse to acknowledge many facts
 12-08-2008, 10:41 PM         #371
Andre3000  OP
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Jordan excelled at that age because he still had a jump shot. its not like gambling and smoking crack with Charles all day would change that fact no matter the age. Ive watched practically every single Jordan game when he was a Wizard he wasnt dropping 30 every game and gettin it how he wanted or anything. I guess we wont have anything to say on the matter unless Kobe plays till his late 30s with these rules I see no reason why he cant put those numbers MJ put up by any means with how MJ was scoring. a.ssuming Kobe still has his jumper and fadeaway he can shoot that percentage and drop about 20 a game with ease as long as he can move well enough.
 9 years ago '08        #372
primetime 60 heat pts60
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 str8_akademiks said:
See that's where I think people have it all messed up. The reason why zone was implemented WAS to advocate more of a team game. Back when it was a purely man-to-man game, the game was being dominated by scorers who could isolate every time and it actually took away from the team concept.
And many people don't know that the zone defense was actually outlawed in the BAA (NBA precursor) because it was so successful and because it kept scoring down. (read near the end)


The one complaint of zone defense is that you don't need great defensive players to execute a great defense. Players can be lacking in defense and still have their deficiencies hidden by the zone. If you play a combination man-zone that's designed to collapse and have your best defensive players on the best offensive player (like Boston last year), it's even more effective.
lol zone was put in the L to stop shaq mostly and AI back in early 2000s. why the fu*k would NBA care about a team game? thats just dumb of u saying they put in zone to implicate more of a team game
 9 years ago '04        #373
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 wepainters said:
lol zone was put in the L to stop shaq mostly and AI back in early 2000s. why the fu*k would NBA care about a team game? thats just dumb of u saying they put in zone to implicate more of a team game
Do you enjoy talking out of your a.ss on things you don't know about?
 9 years ago '04        #374
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 wepainters said:




this is a response to the video str8 akademicks posted.
How is that even a response? Selectively taking videos from a 12 year career and today's era to suit your biases?

The Celtics video was a video JUST from the Celtics series. Big difference. I can compile a video of MJ shooting easy open jumpers for 10 minutes, doesn't mean it actually happened with regularity.
 PEK said:
The thing about zone as it relates to MJ fans is he played with those rules at 40 with bad knees coming off a 3 year hiatus and was still an all star. So if he was in his prime its pretty safe to say he would have still been a god on the court. Kobe "supporters" refuse to acknowledge this fact.
Not really, it's not safe to say anything. First of all, he had pretty much the same amount of points as shots, his FG% was way down in his first season (somethin like .415 i believe), and all star games are decided by the fans. sh*t, Magic even made it to an all-star game after he retired. It doesn't mean anything. Even if Michael played right now, he would have made the All-star game. It's a popularity contest.
 9 years ago '08        #375
primetime 60 heat pts60
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 str8_akademiks said:
Do you enjoy talking out of your a.ss on things you don't know about?
nah but u do
 9 years ago '08        #376
primetime 60 heat pts60
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How is that even a response? Selectively taking videos from a 12 year career and today's era to suit your biases?

The Celtics video was a video JUST from the Celtics series. Big difference. I can compile a video of MJ shooting easy open jumpers for 10 minutes, doesn't mean it actually happened with regularity.

it is showing the handchecking and the tougher defenses that MJ faced. and if u notice most of those are for 3-4 games

Not really, it's not safe to say anything. First of all, he had pretty much the same amount of points as shots, his FG% was way down in his first season (somethin like .415 i believe), and all star games are decided by the fans. sh*t, Magic even made it to an all-star game after he retired. It doesn't mean anything. Even if Michael played right now, he would have made the All-star game. It's a popularity contest.

MJ didn't start, he got voted in by the coaches. Do u even know ur sh*t?


Last edited by primetime; 12-08-2008 at 10:56 PM..
 9 years ago '08        #377
lzyboy186 
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LMFAO isnt this supposed to be a bynum thread?
 9 years ago '06        #378
RAZAH CUTS 5841 heat pts5841
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ordering takeout before a game?? Kind of a questionable move and yes it does expose his youthful brashness.....he has no business questioning zen master Jackson....
 9 years ago '08        #379
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 wepainters said:




this is a response to the video str8 akademicks posted.
Sad thing is after watching these vids, Kobe stans will still swear MJ was allowed to play one on one at all times.
 12-08-2008, 11:01 PM         #380
Andre3000  OP
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 wepainters said:
How is that even a response? Selectively taking videos from a 12 year career and today's era to suit your biases?

The Celtics video was a video JUST from the Celtics series. Big difference. I can compile a video of MJ shooting easy open jumpers for 10 minutes, doesn't mean it actually happened with regularity.

it is showing the handchecking and the tougher defenses that MJ faced. and if u notice most of those are for 3-4 games

Not really, it's not safe to say anything. First of all, he had pretty much the same amount of points as shots, his FG% was way down in his first season (somethin like .415 i believe), and all star games are decided by the fans. sh*t, Magic even made it to an all-star game after he retired. It doesn't mean anything. Even if Michael played right now, he would have made the All-star game. It's a popularity contest.

MJ didn't start, he got voted in by the coaches. Do u even know ur sh*t?
He actually did start Vince Carter gave up his spot.
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