Will there ever be a Hip Hop artist as real as Tupac???

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 9 years ago '07        #101
kyhoopsgoat 418 heat pts418
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I'm tired of people speaking about Tupac as if he was some kind of revolutionary activist or humanitarian that grew up in poverty due to uncontrollable circumstances. The motherf*cker attended Juilliard for f*ck's sake. His whole ghetto, thug-life persona was fabricated.

Tupac's mom was involved with the Black Panthers, and was the subject of FBI harassment because of it. That's probably why he said "f*ck the FBI", and as for the LAPD, their brutality and abuse of authority in the early 90s with CRASH is nearly infamous, so he was just joining the choir on that one as far as I'm concerned. In a lot of ways I have to agree with Tupac when he says that there is something wrong with authority in this country, but at least they're trying to do something good instead of just bi*ching about it.

As for any underlying message that Tupac has in his music, what is unfortunate about it is that it typically never amounts to anything more than sharing his feelings on it, with no proposed solutions. Anyone that perceives his music as having some kind of goal or message to it really needs to stop and think about what that message really is. Tupac never offered a means to change the world, he often just bi*ched about it constantly, and on more than one time was a proponent of violence because all of it. He seemed to revolve mostly around racism and poverty, and given the fact that so many lead lives where those are factors it's easy to see how people turn to Tupac to relate to, but if anyone can say they've found anything more than self-relfection from Tupac they're just over-exaggerating his contributions.

He didn't try to change the world, he simply complained to a beat. He admitted that he didn't change, but instead of taking personal responsibility for it, he blamed others like allegedly racist authorities. To be honest, any person that had the same educational background as Tupac did shouldn't have a right to shout "Thug Life", but in all honesty, I can't say that he's all that bad for at least giving people that to hold on to. It could have been a million other people that said that and every other thing he said, Tupac just said it at the right place and the right time, and that's all he really did.

As for who k!lled him, I doubt it has anything at all to do with the East Coast vs. West Coast beef, and more to do with the gang member that death Row beat in a Las Vegas lobby at a Mike Tyson f!ght. However, Notorious BIG's death has Suge Knight's hands all over it, but I don't subscribe to the idea that Suge Knight k!lled Tupac. As for whether Notorious BIG/Puff Daddy had Tupac shot the first time he was shot, I don't think so. Tupac alleges that it was a faked robbery, that Biggie must have paid the guy, but I think that Tupac's lack of true street credibility and paranoia got the best of him.


That's just my reflection on him as a man. He had his faults like everyone, but he certainly wasn't all that he was made out to be; good or bad.

As a rapper, I think he's extremely overrated and has practically no talent whatsoever. I'm sorry to say it, and I'm not trying to be malicious about it, he was just a terrible rapper. Terrible flow, poor lyricism ( not necessarily the content, but the structure ), and the fact that the "messages" in his song were more recycled than your average sheet of paper left a lot to be desired after you heard the same sh*t over and over again. The majority of his work seemed more like poetry that was mistakenly put to music; my guess is that comes from his education at Juilliard, but it just doesn't appeal to me in anyway. At a purely superficial, musical level, half of the industry, then and now, out-shines Tupac.

Anyway, I could say a lot more because I've often always been truly mystified about people's obsession with this man. I never understood how a person that accomplished so little, was so ordinary, could be perceived as so extra-ordinary and regarded by so many as if he changed anything at all. However, since I'm nearly 100% that this will either A) Be universally accepted by most people that already don't like Tupac or B) Be universally disregarded by Tupac fans, I'm just going to cut it short here.
 9 years ago '06        #102
Joemama0203 
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 deejay_emcee said:
Z-RO

AND SCARFACE

^^^^^
 07-10-2008, 07:26 PM         #103
DuttyRocc 
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Who gives a fu*k
 07-10-2008, 07:49 PM         #104
Masiah 
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Well you gotta look at it like this, what rappers that have died in the past still have a big fan base and huge impact on people TILL this day like Tupac does?

What rapper in the game RIGHT NOW speaks of what Tupac did. Tupac was the first to express himself with emotion. After Tupac died everyone wanted to be Tupac. Look at Ja-Rule. Every rapper told the same story Tupac told, it's like a author writing a book and then telling it to his audience, and then a bunch of other authors take that same book and read the same stories over and over to the same audience. Name me a rapper now or then who has had so much emotion and integrity as Tupac did? Nas? Jay-z? How are you gonna prove that? By a song? Ok. Does this song get played very often NOW till this day? Ok. If so, by how many people? Those guys are no where near Tupac's level. Their character and actions speak for themselves including their music.

Tupac risked his life speaking on the sh*t he spoke(I personally think that's why he was murdered), what rapper besides Chuck D(my n*gga) did that? What rapper is doing this right now? Let's look at how the Hip-Hop game has changed throughout the years since Tupac died? Tupac was a revolutionary black leader. If you're not black, you can't say he wasn't. If so, how can you? How can you relate to what he's talking about if it doesn't reflect to you? How can you understand racism in America if you're not a victim or descendant of slaves/ancestors who have faced racism? And oppression, etc etc. No blacks aren't the only race who face racism in America, but no one has had it as bad as us. No race in this country has been torn apart due to the system of racism that this country dominates. No race in this country has brutal History of oppression for over 400 years. If so, prove me wrong. That's like a Arab/Muslim rapper coming out and gets real big and talks about the crooked stuff our Government does, and then me telling an Arab or Muslim "he's no revolutionary, Arab/Muslim leader". How can I say that if I'm not a Muslim or Arabic? And if I was, how can I prove that my statement is true?

People who dislike Tupac dislike his image for a reason. Because they see something they could NEVER be. A true honest, deep person with integrity. Tupac doesn't have a big fan base for no reason. This guy is DEAD, and he has a bigger fan base than almost any rapper out right now. Imagine if he were alive till this day. That would TRIPLE the size of his fan base. As I said before, people who dislike Tupac dislike him because of jealousy.

Now I won't say that there will never be anyone as REAL as Tupac but, no one will ever be on his level. No one can beat Tupac. Scarface is alright, but he aint touching Tupac. Look at his lyrics, and on top of that his beats. The sh*t rappers come out with now a days would get laughed at if they came out with that sh*t while Tupac and Biggie was around OR real Hip Hop period.

The good thing is, there are still real Hip Hop fans HERE and we aint going no where. We'll live and die by Hip Hop. We aint gonna let a bunch of f*g**t, pop singing, lollipop, trying to turn Hip Hop into a gay culture looking a.ss f*g**ts take over this sh*t. I honor anyone who represents real Hip Hop. But once again, no one is messing with Tupac. And if so, then prove it. Word up, that's just my opinion and perspective towards Pac.

R.I.P
 9 years ago '04        #105
psylence2k 58 heat pts58 OP
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 REAL_NESS said:
Just stop, every artist that was named i.e Nas, Face, Jay eyc. you nitpicked on why they weren't as "real" as Pac.

Now I present to you truth that Pac was just as "real" any rapper and you tell me to look at the bigger picture?

Any deep song you name by Pac I can match with a deep Nas or Jay track for Nas it would be too easy (is that on topic for you?) :rolleyes:

Your letting yourself get confused with image and the actual MAN.
Brenda's got a Baby
Keep your Head Up
Dear Mama
Baby Dont Cry
Changes
I Aint Mad At Cha

and that's just the singles
Gimme 6 Nas singles where he's talking about the pain of others while not talking about himself in excess, and nas called pac the black jesus and black shakespeare so even Nas knows the deal, and dont gimme some good concept song they better be songs where he can actually compare verse for verse message wise.
 07-10-2008, 08:19 PM         #106
youngholla 
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 psylence2k said:
Brenda's got a Baby
Keep your Head Up
Dear Mama
Baby Dont Cry
Changes
I Aint Mad At Cha

and that's just the singles
Gimme 6 Nas singles where he's talking about the pain of others while not talking about himself in excess, and nas called pac the black jesus and black shakespeare so even Nas knows the deal, and dont gimme some good concept song they better be songs where he can actually compare verse for verse message wise.
keep ya head up = i know i can
dear mama = dance
changes = president
baby dont cry = black girl lost
the rest are just repetitive topics...


Last edited by youngholla; 07-10-2008 at 08:23 PM..
 07-10-2008, 08:20 PM         #107
REAL_NESS 
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I Can
One Mic
Thugz Mansion (R.I.P. Pac)
If I ruled the World
Cant forgot about you
Just a Moment
Road to Zion

But you proved my point, you keep talking about singles, Nas has a BUNCH of deep a.ss joints whether they are singles or not

Again you are getting the artist misconstrued with the man

And Nas is simply paying his respect to Pac but you're taking it to some other sh*t implying that Pac was "realer" than any other rapper in the game

Don't kid yourself


Last edited by REAL_NESS; 07-10-2008 at 08:22 PM..
 9 years ago '06        #108
Southern_Boi 
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Pac being real had nothing to do with his music. You shouldve asked will their ever be an artist to make music as real as tupac's because thats apparently the question everybody answerin


Real is real, thats all it means no extra sh*t. If you made music about certain things but lied about 1 thing or wasnt bout what you rappin bout you not real. Either you real or you fake straight like that no extra sh*t. And yeah there have been a lot of real artist since Pac. and some of the artist named in this thread shouldnt be named period, but Soulja Slim deserves to mentioned off rip.


Real got nothing to do with shootin n*ggas or sellin drugs, if you rap about fu*kin skateboardin and thats actually your lifestyle then you being real. Simple as that no extra sh*t, just no fake sh*t either keep it real 100% and thats what Pac did
 9 years ago '04        #109
psylence2k 58 heat pts58 OP
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 irhabi007 said:
I'm tired of people speaking about Tupac as if he was some kind of revolutionary activist or humanitarian that grew up in poverty due to uncontrollable circumstances. The motherf*cker attended Juilliard for f*ck's sake. His whole ghetto, thug-life persona was fabricated.

Tupac's mom was involved with the Black Panthers, and was the subject of FBI harassment because of it. That's probably why he said "f*ck the FBI", and as for the LAPD, their brutality and abuse of authority in the early 90s with CRASH is nearly infamous, so he was just joining the choir on that one as far as I'm concerned. In a lot of ways I have to agree with Tupac when he says that there is something wrong with authority in this country, but at least they're trying to do something good instead of just bi*ching about it.

As for any underlying message that Tupac has in his music, what is unfortunate about it is that it typically never amounts to anything more than sharing his feelings on it, with no proposed solutions. Anyone that perceives his music as having some kind of goal or message to it really needs to stop and think about what that message really is. Tupac never offered a means to change the world, he often just bi*ched about it constantly, and on more than one time was a proponent of violence because all of it. He seemed to revolve mostly around racism and poverty, and given the fact that so many lead lives where those are factors it's easy to see how people turn to Tupac to relate to, but if anyone can say they've found anything more than self-relfection from Tupac they're just over-exaggerating his contributions.

He didn't try to change the world, he simply complained to a beat. He admitted that he didn't change, but instead of taking personal responsibility for it, he blamed others like allegedly racist authorities. To be honest, any person that had the same educational background as Tupac did shouldn't have a right to shout "Thug Life", but in all honesty, I can't say that he's all that bad for at least giving people that to hold on to. It could have been a million other people that said that and every other thing he said, Tupac just said it at the right place and the right time, and that's all he really did.

As for who k!lled him, I doubt it has anything at all to do with the East Coast vs. West Coast beef, and more to do with the gang member that death Row beat in a Las Vegas lobby at a Mike Tyson f!ght. However, Notorious BIG's death has Suge Knight's hands all over it, but I don't subscribe to the idea that Suge Knight k!lled Tupac. As for whether Notorious BIG/Puff Daddy had Tupac shot the first time he was shot, I don't think so. Tupac alleges that it was a faked robbery, that Biggie must have paid the guy, but I think that Tupac's lack of true street credibility and paranoia got the best of him.


That's just my reflection on him as a man. He had his faults like everyone, but he certainly wasn't all that he was made out to be; good or bad.

As a rapper, I think he's extremely overrated and has practically no talent whatsoever. I'm sorry to say it, and I'm not trying to be malicious about it, he was just a terrible rapper. Terrible flow, poor lyricism ( not necessarily the content, but the structure ), and the fact that the "messages" in his song were more recycled than your average sheet of paper left a lot to be desired after you heard the same sh*t over and over again. The majority of his work seemed more like poetry that was mistakenly put to music; my guess is that comes from his education at Juilliard, but it just doesn't appeal to me in anyway. At a purely superficial, musical level, half of the industry, then and now, out-shines Tupac.

Anyway, I could say a lot more because I've often always been truly mystified about people's obsession with this man. I never understood how a person that accomplished so little, was so ordinary, could be perceived as so extra-ordinary and regarded by so many as if he changed anything at all. However, since I'm nearly 100% that this will either A) Be universally accepted by most people that already don't like Tupac or B) Be universally disregarded by Tupac fans, I'm just going to cut it short here.
Tupac just complained? What about how he told the hood to change it's ways and how to do it on Unconditional Love? What about how he told females how to carry on in Keep your head up, or to change their promiscuous ways on wonder why they call u bytch? or showed by example how to respect the strongle single black parent on Dear Mama?? He spoke to HIS community and how to solve THEIR problems, how about how he spoke down racism on Ghetto Gosepl? i mean cmon do your damn research before you open your mouth, you dont need a 7 step scientific approach to be considered telling a solution to a simple problem especially in a rap song. He was dirt poor , i never really heard anyone say he went to julliard except when mario van peebles stated it but he's the only one ive heard it from and i wonder why that is and where did he get the money to go unless he was on scholarship but THAT is IRRELEVANT even if true because we are not talking about Pac's criminal record, street credibility, or Activist credentials, why do people always go off subject when ppl credit pac? The man was a eloquent speaker that wrote poetic masterpieces about the struggles problems and sometimes SOLUTIONS to problems in the world.
 9 years ago '04        #110
psylence2k 58 heat pts58 OP
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 REAL_NESS said:
I Can
One Mic
Thugz Mansion (R.I.P. Pac)
If I ruled the World
Cant forgot about you
Just a Moment
Road to Zion

But you proved my point, you keep talking about singles, Nas has a BUNCH of deep a.ss joints whether they are singles or not

Again you are getting the artist misconstrued with the man

And Nas is simply paying his respect to Pac but you're taking it to some other sh*t implying that Pac was "realer" than any other rapper in the game

Don't kid yourself

kid, two of those are not even his intiated singles and one is a damn Pac single, just a moment and one mic are probably the two best on there but they still dont hold a light to pac's singles verse for verse, the hoods outside NY dont know those songs like they do Pac's so plze try again.
 9 years ago '04        #111
psylence2k 58 heat pts58 OP
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 youngholla said:
keep ya head up = i know i can
dear mama = dance
changes = president
baby dont cry = black girl lost
the rest are just repetitive topics...
and who had the balls to make them singles? who made it his agenda to have the masses hear it instead of another bullshyt party track? also notice how almost all those were written by Pac first. hmm wow

" my DNA is in ya Music muthaphucka, you stupid?"


Last edited by psylence2k; 07-10-2008 at 08:55 PM..
 9 years ago '04        #112
psylence2k 58 heat pts58 OP
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 Curtisimo said:
lets stop right there "his image"

Pac is a pop(ular) icon because of his image not because of his music


I know plenty of n*ggaz who say Pac is the best rapper ever and they have not even heard half of his discography(that he released before death)

Which makes him overated to me cuz alot of people put him in their top 5 just cuz he's pac and thats the popular thing to do not because they are in love with his music

I mean look at the thread title

Pac is the realest rapper alive?

how was he so real when he switched his whole style when joined death row?


How the hell does he scream all this thug life sh*t when he went to an art school in bmore with Will Smith's wife and was a backup dancer for a group to a one hit wonder

theres a reason why Pac sold more albums after his death because he was simply marketble

I mean if n*ggaz are going to argue Pac is the best lets use his music and not all this extra sh*t

but Pac is legendary Pac because of his image not because of his music

Once again another hater proves their ignorance, do you know what thug life stood for? T.he H.ate U G.ive L.ittle I.nfants F.ucks E.veryone , it was not a gangsta/street agenda it was letting people know cycle of karma connected from the burbs to the hood. Watch Resurrection and you'll be enlightened and stop speaking on a subject without doing your research. Pac never had a pointless gangsta/street agenda with the Thug Life thing.
 9 years ago '06        #113
Da Realness 2 heat pts
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pac DID switch up when he signed to deathrow
 07-10-2008, 09:09 PM         #114
U.G.K. 
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 irhabi007 said:
I'm tired of people speaking about Tupac as if he was some kind of revolutionary activist or humanitarian that grew up in poverty due to uncontrollable circumstances. The motherf*cker attended Juilliard for f*ck's sake. His whole ghetto, thug-life persona was fabricated.

Tupac's mom was involved with the Black Panthers, and was the subject of FBI harassment because of it. That's probably why he said "f*ck the FBI", and as for the LAPD, their brutality and abuse of authority in the early 90s with CRASH is nearly infamous, so he was just joining the choir on that one as far as I'm concerned. In a lot of ways I have to agree with Tupac when he says that there is something wrong with authority in this country, but at least they're trying to do something good instead of just bi*ching about it.

As for any underlying message that Tupac has in his music, what is unfortunate about it is that it typically never amounts to anything more than sharing his feelings on it, with no proposed solutions. Anyone that perceives his music as having some kind of goal or message to it really needs to stop and think about what that message really is. Tupac never offered a means to change the world, he often just bi*ched about it constantly, and on more than one time was a proponent of violence because all of it. He seemed to revolve mostly around racism and poverty, and given the fact that so many lead lives where those are factors it's easy to see how people turn to Tupac to relate to, but if anyone can say they've found anything more than self-relfection from Tupac they're just over-exaggerating his contributions.

He didn't try to change the world, he simply complained to a beat. He admitted that he didn't change, but instead of taking personal responsibility for it, he blamed others like allegedly racist authorities. To be honest, any person that had the same educational background as Tupac did shouldn't have a right to shout "Thug Life", but in all honesty, I can't say that he's all that bad for at least giving people that to hold on to. It could have been a million other people that said that and every other thing he said, Tupac just said it at the right place and the right time, and that's all he really did.

As for who k!lled him, I doubt it has anything at all to do with the East Coast vs. West Coast beef, and more to do with the gang member that death Row beat in a Las Vegas lobby at a Mike Tyson f!ght. However, Notorious BIG's death has Suge Knight's hands all over it, but I don't subscribe to the idea that Suge Knight k!lled Tupac. As for whether Notorious BIG/Puff Daddy had Tupac shot the first time he was shot, I don't think so. Tupac alleges that it was a faked robbery, that Biggie must have paid the guy, but I think that Tupac's lack of true street credibility and paranoia got the best of him.


That's just my reflection on him as a man. He had his faults like everyone, but he certainly wasn't all that he was made out to be; good or bad.

As a rapper, I think he's extremely overrated and has practically no talent whatsoever. I'm sorry to say it, and I'm not trying to be malicious about it, he was just a terrible rapper. Terrible flow, poor lyricism ( not necessarily the content, but the structure ), and the fact that the "messages" in his song were more recycled than your average sheet of paper left a lot to be desired after you heard the same sh*t over and over again. The majority of his work seemed more like poetry that was mistakenly put to music; my guess is that comes from his education at Juilliard, but it just doesn't appeal to me in anyway. At a purely superficial, musical level, half of the industry, then and now, out-shines Tupac.

Anyway, I could say a lot more because I've often always been truly mystified about people's obsession with this man. I never understood how a person that accomplished so little, was so ordinary, could be perceived as so extra-ordinary and regarded by so many as if he changed anything at all. However, since I'm nearly 100% that this will either A) Be universally accepted by most people that already don't like Tupac or B) Be universally disregarded by Tupac fans, I'm just going to cut it short here.
:applause::applause: RIP to this this whack a.ss thread, you aint changing anyones opinion threadstarter, hop off that f*g**t 2wacs d*ck
 9 years ago '04        #115
sunzoo 
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once again, i don't even have time to quote, and correct some of you misinformed idiots, but to the one dude who said pac went to juliard? you typed all that sh1t, for no reason, you know nothing about the man, so why type of a dissertation?

and as for "curtis", how in the hell was pac not a legend for his music? are you saying that songs like brenda, and keep your head up which were HITS ( when is the last time you saw a HIT song, like a serious hit, that dealt with a social issue in this rap game?) meant nothing to nobody? people just liked seeing him on TV?

all i see, is a gang of n1ggas that probably weren't even around to see pac, be pac, yall don't know sh1t, you need to get your facts straight or talk about someone you know a little more about
 9 years ago '08        #116
904Nole 1 heat pts
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 AK1 said:
There are a few artists that have more influential hits.
Like who?
 07-10-2008, 09:14 PM         #117
cashrules93 
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you serious? pac was the realest?
 9 years ago '04        #118
sunzoo 
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 Da Realness said:
pac DID switch up when he signed to deathrow
switch up what exactly? can you explain? you know that pac was only on death row for two albums, and only 9 months out of his life, so what exactly switched? how did he "just turn gangsta on death row" when he was shooting at cops BEFORE HE SIGNED THAT CONTRACT?

this n1gga had guns in his videos, way before death row, he was talking revolutionary sh1t, before and after death row, he was making party songs, before and after death row....you n1ggas KEEP SAYING THIS, but you never provide any support for your misguided opinion

n1ggas act like "thug lyfe" or me against the world wasn't released before death row, yall need to stop man, seriously, point out to me where he switched up, the only thing that switched up was his production, there was no major shift in him as an artist, and personally he got into LESS trouble, while he was on DR cuz he didn't wanna take his black a.ss back to jail
 9 years ago '08        #119
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 AK1 said:
Rakim, Nas, Jay-Z, Common, Eminem.

Don't get me wrong, Pac is in my top 3 but I don't think he's the realest.
Uhhhhh sorry but he`s realer than all of them.I mean sh*t, my grandmama even knows Dear Mama & Keep Ya Heed Up. Rakim dosen`t have songs where n*ggas` grandmamas know the lyrics, neither does Em,Common, or Jay...I`m sorry but them other n*ggas ain`t touch people the way Pac did... And Nas & Rakim are in my top 5
 9 years ago '04        #120
sunzoo 
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 AK1 said:
There are a few artists that have more influential hits.
name them...and thats not even what the real point is, people didn't just latch on to pac as fans outta nowhere, we grew along with his music, i could care less about his fuccking image man, i grew up in simular circumstances, my moms did a 10 year bid, i was broke, homeless, all that sh1t

songs like "dear mama", cut directly through my soul bruh, thats why i am personally a fan of pac, because as someone who felt voiceless in the world, i felt like i had someone speaking for me

"pops passed away and i didn't cry, cuz my anger wouldn't let me feel for a stranger", that kinda sh1t stuck to peoples ribs, you mean to tell me the only reason why pac had fans, was because he wilded out on TV? these songs...these HITS, that got the same type of air time that "lolipop" is getting now, MEANT SOMETHING TO SOMEBODY, keep your head up hit close to home with females, the appeal to "so many tears" had nothing to do with pac being a hot head with the media, it had to do with that being some real a.ss sh1t

if it was just his image that made him hot, he woulda been popular out the gate (THINK DMX, he came out of nowhere and did crazy numbers), but his fanbase grew gradually with every album because they saw value in his words

the easiest way to make someone a REAL FAN of yours as a rapper...is to get them to identify with you, when i say fan, i don't mean someone who's just going to buy your records one next week, but people that will listen to your sh1t and value your art no matter what, thats why joe budden, has a die hard fan base, he talks about sh1t that draws normal a.ss people into his world

pac was THE BEST, and being able to indentify to the listeners, songs like 16 on death row, talking about "my uncle used to touch me, i never told you that, scared what you might do, i couldn't hold you back", think about how that line would feel to someone who experienced that?
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