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Truth About Videotaping in the NFL



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 10 years ago '06        #1
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beantown 74 heat pts74
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Truth About Videotaping in the NFL
 

 
The NFL's previous commissioners set a precedent in the league that this type of activity would be overlooked and rules concerning it would not be enforced, at least not in any meaningful way. This created an environment where this type of activity was commonplace and practiced widely.

It has been the contention of some Pats fans that the practice of stealing signals is deeply rooted in the NFL due to the leagues inaction and lack of enforcement.

Pats haters claim that the Patriots are the only team that has been caught videotaping. That's simply not true. The Jets were caught taping in Foxboro the year before. There is a long list of accusations against other teams for various other forms of signal stealing and what even the Haters would define as 'cheating'.

Take a look at the items listed below and the links in my sources and ask yourself if the situation is as cut-and-dried as the Haters make it seem. There's plenty of probable cause to justify a league-wide investigation into all teams taping practices. But so far, the league and the Haters don't want that.

Here are some other interesting facts that the Haters always ignore:

1. The Patriots caught the Jets filming in the end zone in Foxboro in 2006. The Jets said that the Pats had given them permission, which they clearly hadn't because Pats asked the cameraman to leave. The league did nothing but to say it was okay and did not confiscate tapes or investigate. The Jets were supposedly filming 'coaching video'.

2. The Dolphins bought game tapes of the Patriots to study Tom Brady's audibles before a MNF game in Dec 2006. Zach Thomas admitted to knowing all Brady's signals from the tape study. The league ruled that such tape study is okay.

3. Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan admitted in 2002 to hiring lip readers to steal signals. He bragged that his lipreaders could get all the signals by the end of the 1st half, sometimes by the end of the 1st quarter.

4. The Jets were accused of cheating by calling illegal audibles in a game against the Ravens. Brian Billick said that the illegal audibles by the Jets resulted in 3 offside penalties.

5. The KC Chiefs admitted that they had somehow got hold of a 49ers playbook and memorized it before a game against the niners. KC knew every play that KC called before the snap. This was when Tony Dungy was with KC.

6. The Raiders, Broncos, Steelers, and 49ers were all caught cheating on salary cap limits and all were fined and lost draft picks.

7. Former Dallas Cowboy coaches Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson admitted to doing 'similar stunts' (video taping) while they were coaching.

8. Former Raiders player Howie Long said in USA Today that 'anybody who thinks the Patriots are the only club spying on other teams is 'naive.''

9. Former Eagles QB Ron Jaworski admitted that when he played, his backup QB would spy on the defense and signal Jaws by dropping red flags to indicate blitzes. He also said that he had no problem with Pats taping the Rams before 2001 SB.

10. Current KC coach Herm Edwards said that, 'There isn't a team in the league that doesn't try to steal signals [but] I haven't heard about teams recording footage like the Patriots were,' said one longtime NFL a.ssistant coach. 'But you can bet everybody is trying to steal in some way. In fact, you can go to any NFL game and you'll find some coach whose sole job is to look for defensive signals.'

11. Former Steeler's coach Chuck Knoll said that signal stealing is 'a whole lot about nothing'.

12. Dan Rooney of the Pittsburgh Steelers stated, 'We consider the tapes of our coaching staff during our games against the New England Patriots to be a non-issue,' Rooney said in a statement. 'In our opinion, they had no impact on the results of those games.'

13. According to the NFL rules, teams are allowed to tape 'coaching video' from an upper level location or from the end zones with no restrictions so long as both teams have access to the location. Such taping does not require league permission. No one seems to know exactly what 'coaching video' is, that there is any review or monitoring of what gets taped, and the NFL doesn't make it's official rule book public.

But this rule seems to be a direct contradiction of the following 'rules':

Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: 'No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.' It later says: 'All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.'

And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: 'Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.'

The first rule states that video taping is allowed from an upper level location to make 'coaching video', but the other 2 say that video taping is not allowed in 'areas accessible to staff members.'

Also note that rule regarding taping that the Pats were disciplined for in this year was also in place at the time the Jets were caught taping at Foxboro. The Pats were investigated and penalized, the Jets were not.

None of these things justify or excuse the Pats for violating a rule, but the Haters and the league are not doing the same thing to other teams.

The team should not be condemned for the actions of a coach who is doing what a lot of other coaches and teams have been doing for a long time.

Source(s):
1.
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 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story...
1.
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 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story...
1.
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 http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker.com/...
1.
[pic - click to view]

 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...
2.
[pic - click to view]

 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/...
3.
[pic - click to view]

 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_...
4.
[pic - click to view]

 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story...
4.
[pic - click to view]

 http://www.boston.com/sports/football/ar...
5.
[pic - click to view]

 http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sto...
6.
[pic - click to view]

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art...
6.
[pic - click to view]

 http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/09/11/...
7/8.
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 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist...
9.
[pic - click to view]

 http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/Steve...
10/11.
[pic - click to view]

 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/st...
12.
[pic - click to view]

 http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap...
13.
[pic - click to view]

 http://www.boston.com/sports/football/pa...
13.
[pic - click to view]

 http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5...
Misc links:

[pic - click to view]

 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/st...

[pic - click to view]

 http://www.sptimes.com/2007/09/14/Bucs/I...

[pic - click to view]

 http://thesportslawprofessor.blogspot.co...

[pic - click to view]

 http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2007/09/s...

[pic - click to view]

 http://thesportslawprofessor.blogspot.co...

40 comments for "Truth About Videotaping in the NFL"
 10 years ago '06        #2
beantown 74 heat pts74 OP
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If you read this and still think what the Pats did was so much worse than all of this sh*t then ur obviously just a fu*king moron or a patriot hater.......

 05-13-2008, 04:54 PM         #3
Andre3000 
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doesn't make it right at all.

 10 years ago '06        #4
beantown 74 heat pts74 OP
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:banghead:Nope but I don't see f*g**ts liek u getting ur menstrual cycle all upset over all the other sh*t on this list???

@ getting owned in ur own avy

 05-13-2008, 05:04 PM         #5
Andre3000 
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 beantown85 said
:banghead:Nope but I don't see f*g**ts liek u getting ur menstrual cycle all upset over all the other sh*t on this list???

@ getting owned in ur own avy
I never got angry when the Pats did it. If any thing I was the few people defending them.Ive only heard a few of those cases of and def dont remember all of those above. Most of those were caught and stopped immediately. The point is ur team had a greater advantage and won 3 SBs of cheating by only 3 points. Id wonder how ur team would play without the Cameras. Oh yeah they lost to the Giants silly me. :sleepy:

its a avy so what

 10 years ago '05        #6
dmunson318 1 heat pts
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lol a term paper trying to justify what the pats did. at the end of it all its still cheating n*gga!

 10 years ago '04        #7
{XtoDaZ} 
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 dmunson318 said
lol a term paper trying to justify what the pats did. at the end of it all its still cheating n*gga!
duh its still cheating but a lot if idiots especially on BX act like the Patriots are the only ones in the world who did it

 10 years ago '06        #8
beantown 74 heat pts74 OP
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 dmunson318 said
lol a term paper trying to justify what the pats did. at the end of it all its still cheating n*gga!
I didn't write the fu*king article u fu*kin scrub


Last edited by beantown; 05-13-2008 at 05:27 PM..

 10 years ago '06        #9
beantown 74 heat pts74 OP
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 Andre3000 said
I never got angry when the Pats did it. If any thing I was the few people defending them.Ive only heard a few of those cases of and def dont remember all of those above. Most of those were caught and stopped immediately. The point is ur team had a greater advantage and won 3 SBs of cheating by only 3 points. Id wonder how ur team would play without the Cameras. Oh yeah they lost to the Giants silly me. :sleepy:

its a avy so what
u mean tehy went 18-1?? Doesn't sound like a bad season to me.... funny part is that everyone was saying sh*t about the cameras like they actually needed them then they went undefeated in the regular season and made it to the super bowl...... Ur logic is questionable, can tell ur not very educated

 10 years ago '05        #10
dmunson318 1 heat pts
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 {XtoDaZ} said
duh its still cheating but a lot if idiots especially on BX act like the Patriots are the only ones in the world who did it
they're not but they got caught so..........

 05-13-2008, 05:38 PM         #11
$ is Me 
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The giants aint on that list for cheating

 05-13-2008, 05:44 PM         #12
QueenzBaller26 
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nothing about the packs...chea we a true team

 10 years ago '07        #13
keithbm1111 97 heat pts97
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they dont care. The Patriots are a winning team, thats all these losers care about. Because the Pats are so nasty, these guys look for ANYTHING to hate on them. there was a thread a while ago about the Broncos getting caught, and the Jets got caught during a PLAYOFF game. If the Pats were a bad team like the Jets, dolphins, or chiefs, then this wouldnt be a big deal at all.

 10 years ago '04        #14
casper 1 heat pts
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1. The Patriots caught the Jets filming in the end zone in Foxboro in 2006. The Jets said that the Pats had given them permission, which they clearly hadn't because Pats asked the cameraman to leave. The league did nothing but to say it was okay and did not confiscate tapes or investigate. The Jets were supposedly filming 'coaching video'.
ok so the pats ratted on the jets first & the jest returned the favor

2. The Dolphins bought game tapes of the Patriots to study Tom Brady's audibles before a MNF game in Dec 2006. Zach Thomas admitted to knowing all Brady's signals from the tape study. The league ruled that such tape study is okay.
its one thing to know audibles, its a whole nother problem to know the whole play package, & plays they run when in that package


3. Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan admitted in 2002 to hiring lip readers to steal signals. He bragged that his lipreaders could get all the signals by the end of the 1st half, sometimes by the end of the 1st quarter.
i honestly dont have a problem wit this...i mean i guess its wrong but its kinda like playin cards with somebody & they have their cards where u can see them, of course ur gonna look....even when teams dont say things(use their lips) they use hand signals, so either way they know the signals could be seen, but its not reported & memorized & available on film to do ur research & learn players tendancies

4. The Jets were accused of cheating by calling illegal audibles in a game against the Ravens. Brian Billick said that the illegal audibles by the Jets resulted in 3 offside penalties.
i honestly dont know what illegal audibles are

5. The KC Chiefs admitted that they had somehow got hold of a 49ers playbook and memorized it before a game against the niners. KC knew every play that KC called before the snap. This was when Tony Dungy was with KC.
if ur not responsible with ur property like playbooks, & somebody else finds it then i cant blame em for lookin at it...thats like finding a wallet & not even looking at how much money is in it, lol, yea right, im lookin just like everybody else...this was the 9ers fault

6. The Raiders, Broncos, Steelers, and 49ers were all caught cheating on salary cap limits and all were fined and lost draft picks.
they were fined, & in my opinion this isnt as bad....yes it is fu*ked up & yes it is cheating, but its not as bad as what the pats did...all the extra money that was given to players...all u gotta do is figure out the guys that didnt even play all season & take off the money spent on them & its about even...the problem is they had full rosters

7. Former Dallas Cowboy coaches Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson admitted to doing 'similar stunts' (video taping) while they were coaching.
i didnt check the source but i'd like to know whats supposedly "similar stunts"

8. Former Raiders player Howie Long said in USA Today that 'anybody who thinks the Patriots are the only club spying on other teams is 'naive.''
how is howie long saying this, cheating??? i think this was only used to make ur list bigger

9. Former Eagles QB Ron Jaworski admitted that when he played, his backup QB would spy on the defense and signal Jaws by dropping red flags to indicate blitzes. He also said that he had no problem with Pats taping the Rams before 2001 SB.
if people knew about this as it was happening, do u think the reaction would be "so what?", hell no...but even still like i said before, its not recording & saving things, so this isnt on the same level

10. Current KC coach Herm Edwards said that, 'There isn't a team in the league that doesn't try to steal signals [but] I haven't heard about teams recording footage like the Patriots were,' said one longtime NFL a.ssistant coach. 'But you can bet everybody is trying to steal in some way. In fact, you can go to any NFL game and you'll find some coach whose sole job is to look for defensive signals.'
teams try, by looking...having strategically placed cameras is not trying, it is doing, everybody is looking for an edge, the pats have had an undeniable edge

11. Former Steeler's coach Chuck Knoll said that signal stealing is 'a whole lot about nothing'.
again, i think this is only here to make the list look bigger, this is in no way something that is any form of cheating


12. Dan Rooney of the Pittsburgh Steelers stated, 'We consider the tapes of our coaching staff during our games against the New England Patriots to be a non-issue,' Rooney said in a statement. 'In our opinion, they had no impact on the results of those games.'
keywords "in our opinion" & i wonder if their opinion is changed now that they see the stuff that was actually on the tapes

13. According to the NFL rules, teams are allowed to tape 'coaching video' from an upper level location or from the end zones with no restrictions so long as both teams have access to the location. Such taping does not require league permission. No one seems to know exactly what 'coaching video' is, that there is any review or monitoring of what gets taped, and the NFL doesn't make it's official rule book public.

But this rule seems to be a direct contradiction of the following 'rules':

Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: 'No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.' It later says: 'All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.'
ok first off, again, this is only here to make the list bigger...secondly it says "the rulebook isnt public, yet in the next paragraph it has rules for "game operations manual" ??????? either way this was only here to make the list bigger

 10 years ago '08        #15
danny2132 
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Like I said in the other forum...it really dont matter if they knew what plays to call, they still had to make the plays, they did and they won...and whos to say that they didnt have someone stealing signs in this years superbowl, the only difference is they didnt make the plays and they lost...the only thing they are guilty of is getting caught, most teams do things to have an edge, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, but thats why they play the games....if it was such an advantage why did they only win each superbowl by 3 points, they would have murdered those teams if they had that much of an advantage...

 10 years ago '04        #16
casper 1 heat pts
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 danny2132 said
Like I said in the other forum...it really dont matter if they knew what plays to call, they still had to make the plays, they did and they won...and whos to say that they didnt have someone stealing signs in this years superbowl, the only difference is they didnt make the plays and they lost...the only thing they are guilty of is getting caught, most teams do things to have an edge, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, but thats why they play the games....if it was such an advantage why did they only win each superbowl by 3 points, they would have murdered those teams if they had that much of an advantage...

This is for the under-lined part:

see this is what k!lls me....it was an advantage, how do u know they wouldn't have lost by 20???? how do u know they would've even got to the bowl??

if it wasnt an advantage why did they do it??? why would they hire guys specifically for that??


& for the bold & italic part:

ur probably the same type of person that thinks its fine for baseball players to use steroids cuz, "either way he still has to actually hit the ball" arent u??


Last edited by casper; 05-13-2008 at 06:18 PM..

 10 years ago '05        #17
The Utmost 1 heat pts
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i honestly dont care enough anymore to read all of that...i just skimmed through checking if the names of my teams came up...

if you hate the patriots soley because of this then you just flat out hate the patriots and this is just an excuse because you dont really know why you hate them shame on you for hating so much that there is no reasoning anymore


Last edited by The Utmost; 05-13-2008 at 06:28 PM..

 10 years ago '08        #18
danny2132 
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To Casper

I guess the tuck rule wasnt one of the reason they went to the first superbowl huh? How do you know your team didn't "cheat" to get to the superbowl after 3 straight NFC champ losses, I mean that could go both ways. Look I hate the Pats as much as the next guy, but I will give them credit they did what they had to do to win.....Think about if it was your team would you still be saying the same thing?


If teams leave the field open like that to have their practices taped, then its there fault....What team/s wouldnt have a closed practice or show plays out in the open that could or couldnt beat them...

Yes, b/c no matter how many steriods you take if you strike out everytime you get up to the plate it really dont matter....Plus its baseballs fault for the steriod era anyway.....look at all the players that ballooned up after that strike season.....Not naming any names though....


Last edited by danny2132; 05-13-2008 at 08:54 PM..

 10 years ago '05        #19
A-N-D-1 177 heat pts177
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All of that is fine and dandy!!! Now can you explain the "tuck" rule because I still say that Brady fumbled the ball!!!

 10 years ago '08        #20
danny2132 
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We ALL know that was a fumble LOL!

 10 years ago '04        #21
casper 1 heat pts
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 danny2132 said
To Casper

I guess the tuck rule wasnt one of the reason they went to the first superbowl huh? How do you know your team didn't "cheat" to get to the superbowl after 3 straight NFC champ losses, I mean that could go both ways. Look I hate the Pats as much as the next guy, but I will give them credit they did what they had to do to win.....Think about if it was your team would you still be saying the same thing?

1st off...yes, i know the tuck was a bulsh*t call, im wit u on that, i honestly dont know y u even brought that up...of course i think the pats & the league could be in "cahoots"(sp??) otherwise i think the penalties should've been more strict...i dont buy the whole explanation of the pats "i didnt understand the rule"

& secondly, i dont know if the eagles cheated...but i do know they were never caught, we cant blame people for sh*t they didnt do

& 3rd, if the pats were my team, sure i'd be happy bout the wins, but i definately wouldnt sit there & defend it...they got caught, wtf else is there to be said???

& i dont care what anybody says...they recorded the browns, a few years ago...they were no threat to ANYBODY then, so y tape them & not good teams??? these r just tapes that walsh kept, these r the ones he didnt turn over & these were from like '01...so wheres all the tapes that were in between then & now??? there has to be a whole lot of tapes that were not turned over

 10 years ago '08        #22
danny2132 
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I feel you on that, so i guess we can agree to disagree, i just dont think they had a big advantage, I mean they should have blown those teams out, every team they played in those SB's had a chance to win and they didnt....I just think that if they were taping since 2000 then they would have won every SB from then until now granted they didnt go to the playoffs the year after the first superbowl and payton manning beat them in the playoffs in 07....

 10 years ago '06        #23
beantown 74 heat pts74 OP
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 danny2132 said
Like I said in the other forum...it really dont matter if they knew what plays to call, they still had to make the plays, they did and they won...and whos to say that they didnt have someone stealing signs in this years superbowl, the only difference is they didnt make the plays and they lost...the only thing they are guilty of is getting caught, most teams do things to have an edge, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, but thats why they play the games....if it was such an advantage why did they only win each superbowl by 3 points, they would have murdered those teams if they had that much of an advantage...
:applause:

 10 years ago '06        #24
beantown 74 heat pts74 OP
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 danny2132 said
We ALL know that was a fumble LOL!
This is getting off topic but of course it was a fumble... tahts why they changed the rule afterwards. But the fact of the matter was that going strictly by the rule, then yea it was a forward pass if you really break down the rule that much... Pats still had to come back and win that game with 2 rediculous vinatieri kicks

 10 years ago '06        #25
beantown 74 heat pts74 OP
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 casper said
This is for the under-lined part:

see this is what k!lls me....it was an advantage, how do u know they wouldn't have lost by 20???? how do u know they would've even got to the bowl??

if it wasnt an advantage why did they do it??? why would they hire guys specifically for that??


& for the bold & italic part:

ur probably the same type of person that thinks its fine for baseball players to use steroids cuz, "either way he still has to actually hit the ball" arent u??
Why would they do it??? Because it's Bill Belichick and he would probably do every single persons job in teh organization if he had enough time in the day.... The guy will do whatever it takes to get a competitive advantage obviously, this is just one more thing. Like Chris Carter said on ESPN during ESPN's 9 hour spygate bullsh*tathon "The Pats are just guilty of being better at videotaping than everyone else"

 10 years ago '06        #26
beantown 74 heat pts74 OP
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 dmunson318 said
they're not but they got caught so..........
Sooooooooo....What's your point? Isn't it over with at this point? We're still seeing this bullsh*t on TV right now because of that Senator who is wasting tax payer's money flying this idiot in to come talk to him about something that's not going to make any difference

 05-14-2008, 06:40 AM         #27
smokeweed101. 
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I love how it always turn to.

"What if"
"How do you know"
"There could be"
You never know if"

Yea lets all make a.ssumptions and pass them on as facts. I love how people say "How do you know they wouldn't have lost" As if a blurry VHS can make Brady the best QB of this era. As if Moss sucked his whole career and a dvd he burned on Bellichick's computer taught him to run routes and catch balls.


 05-14-2008, 09:13 AM         #28
ill800 
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all those things you named are minuscule compared to what the patriots did. wtf dont you get? pats recorded everything from clock management to defensive signals. but dont believe the players or the coaches who tell you that this is bad

 10 years ago '05        #29
dmunson318 1 heat pts
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imo stealing hand signals is okay, but breaking down a teams time management and situational schemes in "practice" is fu*king cheating. you might as well hand them your playbook too! i can see if they studied "game film" and got their edge from there because thats fair game, but you don't record a teams practice and walk thru's. only way i see that being fair is if they gave the rams and other teams the permission to do the same. and yeah i said this was on the same level as bonds and clemens because you can take all the balco u want, but u still have to connect the bat with the ball and judge a players hot zones. if you give 11 athletes info where to be at the right time where's the strategy in that?

 10 years ago '05        #30
dmunson318 1 heat pts
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 beantown85 said
Sooooooooo....What's your point? Isn't it over with at this point? We're still seeing this bullsh*t on TV right now because of that Senator who is wasting tax payer's money flying this idiot in to come talk to him about something that's not going to make any difference
the point is that u need to accept the fact that your team cheated their way into the super bowl countless times and didn't even need to. fu*king up history and placing judgement on the best game known to man, but if you're fine with that then to each is own. accept that sh*t playboy and move on, i accept when n*ggas throw the saints only won two playoff games every argument because that sh*t is true, so accept your team being labled as cheaters. you can't erase what they are.

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