Havoc VS. Rza

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Who's the better producer to you??
RZA 30 56.60%
HAVOC 23 43.40%
Voters: 53. Sorry, you cannot vote on this poll (Boxden members only)

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 10 years ago '06        #161
STILL.DETOX|m 705 heat pts705
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Gfk=goat
 10 years ago '06        #162
SHootar 49 heat pts49 OP
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 Fishscale said:
Gfk=goat



ghost is my boy...def one of my favourites ever, his swag >>>...but lol @ goat
 10 years ago '05        #163
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 jj01 said:
quality>>>>quantity


meth didnt cross over to commercial side long ago
i agree that quality > quantity

i agree that alost of the members in Wu-Tang are overrated

but how is doing a track that was produced by DJ Premier and had a 'rocker' that tried to rap more commercial than 'heeeeeeeEEEyyyy YAAAAAA!!!'

i LOVE Outkast, i feel that Dre is one of the most underrated rappers ever, top 10 talent without a doubt, but the track Meth did with Limp Bizkit was nowhere near 'selling out'.........Meth didn't change genres, it was a hip-hop track, Dre made a pop song.....

i don't like Wu-Tang like most people do, i would rather listen to Outkast than most members of the Wu (i'd take them over everyone but Meth, GZA, and INS), but RZA's beats are so much more epic than Havoc's........

i LOVE Havoc's beats, i have every the instrumental album to every album Mobb Deep has ever put out, but RZA is a much better producer......fu*k scoring movies, fu*k all the other stupid sh*t, RZA just has more, better beats than Havoc.....
 10 years ago '06        #164
SHootar 49 heat pts49 OP
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 daliff89 said:


i agree that quality > quantity

i agree that alost of the members in Wu-Tang are overrated

but how is doing a track that was produced by DJ Premier and had a 'rocker' that tried to rap more commercial than 'heeeeeeeEEEyyyy YAAAAAA!!!'

i LOVE Outkast, i feel that Dre is one of the most underrated rappers ever, top 10 talent without a doubt, but the track Meth did with Limp Bizkit was nowhere near 'selling out'.........Meth didn't change genres, it was a hip-hop track, Dre made a pop song.....

i don't like Wu-Tang like most people do, i would rather listen to Outkast than most members of the Wu (i'd take them over everyone but Meth, GZA, and INS), but RZA's beats are so much more epic than Havoc's........

i LOVE Havoc's beats, i have every the instrumental album to every album Mobb Deep has ever put out, but RZA is a much better producer......fu*k scoring movies, fu*k all the other stupid sh*t, RZA just has more, better beats than Havoc.....
agree with most of what u said, couple things tho.

just cuz rza's beats are more "epic", doesnt mean they are better. premo is far from epic, keeps it simple, and is largely regarded as the GOAT.

i don't know tho, for me its really tough. i've been basically defending havoc this whole thread only cuz ppl are acting like its not close, and i dont think thats fair.

i prefer each on different days. i cant really put together a scoring system where ones are better. they do have their own style. rza is more versatile too BUT on the other hand he wasnt strictly producing for the MOBB who's style is gutter hood rap exclusively (whereas wu can be lighter, and even comedic sometimes ie meth, ghost). i think havocs beats painted thee perfect backdrop of what P and Hav wanted to portray in their rhymes. deeper beats, and more epic, would have failed i think with their albums.
 04-13-2008, 04:01 PM         #165
KrayLay 
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 SHootar said:
agree with most of what u said, couple things tho.

just cuz rza's beats are more "epic", doesnt mean they are better. premo is far from epic, keeps it simple, and is largely regarded as the GOAT.

i don't know tho, for me its really tough. i've been basically defending havoc this whole thread only cuz ppl are acting like its not close, and i dont think thats fair.

i prefer each on different days. i cant really put together a scoring system where ones are better. they do have their own style. rza is more versatile too BUT on the other hand he wasnt strictly producing for the MOBB who's style is gutter hood rap exclusively (whereas wu can be lighter, and even comedic sometimes ie meth, ghost). i think havocs beats painted thee perfect backdrop of what P and Hav wanted to portray in their rhymes. deeper beats, and more epic, would have failed i think with their albums.
Son, Wu isn't gutter hood rap? Yeah, Ghost and Meth might be clowning around on a track or two, but then Ghost will talk about sticking a knife in your fu*king throat right after. And most of Meth's clowning was with Red, where RZA didn't do that album.
 04-13-2008, 04:05 PM         #166
widow maker 
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 daliff89 said:


i agree that quality > quantity

i agree that alost of the members in Wu-Tang are overrated

but how is doing a track that was produced by DJ Premier and had a 'rocker' that tried to rap more commercial than 'heeeeeeeEEEyyyy YAAAAAA!!!'

i LOVE Outkast, i feel that Dre is one of the most underrated rappers ever, top 10 talent without a doubt, but the track Meth did with Limp Bizkit was nowhere near 'selling out'.........Meth didn't change genres, it was a hip-hop track, Dre made a pop song.....

i don't like Wu-Tang like most people do, i would rather listen to Outkast than most members of the Wu (i'd take them over everyone but Meth, GZA, and INS), but RZA's beats are so much more epic than Havoc's........

i LOVE Havoc's beats, i have every the instrumental album to every album Mobb Deep has ever put out, but RZA is a much better producer......fu*k scoring movies, fu*k all the other stupid sh*t, RZA just has more, better beats than Havoc.....
 10 years ago '05        #167
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 SHootar said:
agree with most of what u said, couple things tho.

just cuz rza's beats are more "epic", doesnt mean they are better. premo is far from epic, keeps it simple, and is largely regarded as the GOAT.

i don't know tho, for me its really tough. i've been basically defending havoc this whole thread only cuz ppl are acting like its not close, and i dont think thats fair.

i prefer each on different days. i cant really put together a scoring system where ones are better. they do have their own style. rza is more versatile too BUT on the other hand he wasnt strictly producing for the MOBB who's style is gutter hood rap exclusively (whereas wu can be lighter, and even comedic sometimes ie meth, ghost). i think havocs beats painted thee perfect backdrop of what P and Hav wanted to portray in their rhymes. deeper beats, and more epic, would have failed i think with their albums.
i didn't say that epic meant better, i just said they were more eipc......

the complexity of RZA's beats is out of this world........most of Havoc's early sh*t, no matter how nice it was, is really just a break beat looped......

yea Preemo keeps it simple, but he chops up the sample MUCH more than Havoc did/does.......
 10 years ago '06        #168
SHootar 49 heat pts49 OP
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 KrayLay said:
Son, Wu isn't gutter hood rap? Yeah, Ghost and Meth might be clowning around on a track or two, but then Ghost will talk about sticking a knife in your fu*king throat right after. And most of Meth's clowning was with Red, where RZA didn't do that album.
and thats all i was saying....

they're obviously both hood hip hop...but with wu u have personalities that u can make a more complex type, intricate beats (odb, ghost, meth all have some vibrant personalities)....mobb deep is pretty monotonous and straightforward. i think some of rza's beats would sound FOOLISH with mobb deeps lyrics and sound. thats my point. that havocs montonous simple beats fit with their style perfectly.
 10 years ago '06        #169
SHootar 49 heat pts49 OP
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 daliff89 said:


i didn't say that epic meant better, i just said they were more eipc......

the complexity of RZA's beats is out of this world........most of Havoc's early sh*t, no matter how nice it was, is really just a break beat looped......
yea Preemo keeps it simple, but he chops up the sample MUCH more than Havoc did/does.......
i realize this...but was just saying that i wouldnt use that as a knock on havoc...cuz they fit with the mobbs sound perfectly. was a.ssuming u were making that argument as reason why rza was better....
 04-13-2008, 04:44 PM         #170
KrayLay 
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 SHootar said:
and thats all i was saying....

they're obviously both hood hip hop...but with wu u have personalities that u can make a more complex type, intricate beats (odb, ghost, meth all have some vibrant personalities)....mobb deep is pretty monotonous and straightforward. i think some of rza's beats would sound FOOLISH with mobb deeps lyrics and sound. thats my point. that havocs montonous simple beats fit with their style perfectly.
If RZA did work with Mobb Deep, how do you know what he would have done? He could have changed his style. RZA can do ANY kind of beat.
 10 years ago '06        #171
SHootar 49 heat pts49 OP
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 KrayLay said:
If RZA did work with Mobb Deep, how do you know what he would have done? He could have changed his style. RZA can do ANY kind of beat.
lol where did i say he could not do that?? stop taking my points and misconstruing them. it was said that rza's beats were much more epic and detailed, deep...havocs were simple loops. all i was sayin was that his beats were perfect for mobb deeps lyrics/image. and that rza had the opportunity to make more detailed beats, with variation cuz his lyracists had vibrant personalities...then i gave an example saying some of rza's beats would sound foolish with mobb deeps vocals....period. i was defending havoc.

no one said rza COULDN'T do this, or havoc COULDN'T do that...i was pointing out the fact its not fair to critisize the simplicity of his beats cuz their lyrics matched the monotonous, symplicity of the beats.
 10 years ago '06        #172
Badnewz100 
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Hav all the way
 10 years ago '06        #173
BlackandGifted 17 heat pts17
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How about we call a spade a spade its a tie they are both a.ss therefore they both lose
 10 years ago '05        #174
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 SHootar said:
i realize this...but was just saying that i wouldnt use that as a knock on havoc...cuz they fit with the mobbs sound perfectly. was a.ssuming u were making that argument as reason why rza was better....
you can't use 'they fit their style better' as a reason why someone is a good producer......

so DJ Quik (GREAT producer) is on DJ Premier's level because his style fit the west coast?? Scott Storch is on Dre's level because his beats match the club hits they're turned into????

like i said, i LOVE some of Havoc's beats, dude is a nice producer, but you can't mask his simplicity with 'that was Mobb's style'.........it just doesn't work.....

that's like saying 'Rocko isn't that much worse than Nas, he's making those tracks that bang in your car. that just fits his style better.'.........
 10 years ago '04        #175
MegaTON 22 heat pts22
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all time rza
atm>>> hav
 04-13-2008, 08:41 PM         #176
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I'm going to have to say RZA. RZA originated the Wu-Tang sound, Havoc basically built upon the work done by Marley Marl to refine the QB sound. I think Hav is one of the best at what he does, but I think RZA has a far more diverse catalog of good beats.
 10 years ago '06        #177
SHootar 49 heat pts49 OP
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 daliff89 said:


you can't use 'they fit their style better' as a reason why someone is a good producer......

so DJ Quik (GREAT producer) is on DJ Premier's level because his style fit the west coast?? Scott Storch is on Dre's level because his beats match the club hits they're turned into????

like i said, i LOVE some of Havoc's beats, dude is a nice producer, but you can't mask his simplicity with 'that was Mobb's style'.........it just doesn't work.....

that's like saying 'Rocko isn't that much worse than Nas, he's making those tracks that bang in your car. that just fits his style better.'.........



ok i see ur point, but ur using extremes here

havocs beats are some of the nastiest of all time. they are hood classics. shook ones is arguably the greatest track in hip hop history. we're not talking about 2 producers on diff sides of the world here in terms of respect. i think ur too caught up in simplicity vs. detailed, etc.

nas' greatest production came with probably the most simplisitic beats he ever got on illmatic. many tracks were just simple loops, nothing epic or crazy about them. which was perfect and gave u that gutter NY vibe.

putting more detail in your beat doesn't translate into a better beat...sh*t working harder or for longer on a beat doesnt translate into a better beat either and i think ur grading system is a little flawed.


Last edited by SHootar; 04-14-2008 at 06:32 AM..
 10 years ago '06        #178
SHootar 49 heat pts49 OP
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i guess "still dre" shouldnt be hailed as one of the greatest hip hop beats of our time either
 10 years ago '05        #179
THEINFAMOUS 19 heat pts19
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I really didnt see this thread goin this long
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