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 10 years ago '04        #81
persuazion 2 heat pts
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despite how I feel about him I should let you know that I do have this bobblehead on my computer desk.....
 10 years ago '06        #82
Supreme7 2 heat pts
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miracle could be misinterped as magical.
 10 years ago '04        #83
Top Ramen 
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 persuazion said:
despite how I feel about him I should let you know that I do have this bobblehead on my computer desk.....
Lmao
:applause:
 10 years ago '04        #84
moneytime 
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Miracles still do take place today. I am eyewitness to many personally. I had to actually let go of fear and seek out the move of God for myself! Lack of faith and unbelief is what limits the church today. When people just play church that is what they can expect to get. NO RELATIONSHIP. If you take a step towards Him, he will take a step towards you. The more willing you are to TRULY grow in Him spiritually, the more fulfilling your relationship will be with the Father! I am witness to this. I have fasted and prayed throughout my life and seen God move greatly on my behalf. He will do the same for you too. Only trust and obey. Many today only give lip service to his Word and thus have a dead spiritual life. When you "study, PRACTICE, teach" and actually take God seriously, He will take you seriously too. Like any relationship, it is like a mirror and its value is determined on what you are willing to put into it! I was willing to take the leap of faith and I am still growing and seeking more of Him in my life. To those who doubt and are trapped in their cell of unbelief, are you willing to walk in faith? Understanding is to "stand under". How can you cast judgement on anything of value if you do not test and measure for yourself? Do you not see the wisdom of this? All forms of magic are counterfeit and miracles are authentic! This relationship is evident throughout history and even today. You will see false prophets, diviners, psychics vs. Apostles, Prophets, and Miracle Workers. Discernment is necessary to tell the difference. The counterfiet vs. the authentic, think on this. Finally I pray you will grow and test for yourself. Many have fear as the root for how far they will go. Even in life. Do not be blinded by unbelief and lack of faith.
 10 years ago '04        #85
persuazion 2 heat pts
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 moneytime said:
Miracles still do take place today. I am eyewitness to many personally. I had to actually let go of fear and seek out the move of God for myself! Lack of faith and unbelief is what limits the church today. When people just play church that is what they can expect to get. NO RELATIONSHIP. If you take a step towards Him, he will take a step towards you. The more willing you are to TRULY grow in Him spiritually, the more fulfilling your relationship will be with the Father! I am witness to this. I have fasted and prayed throughout my life and seen God move greatly on my behalf. He will do the same for you too. Only trust and obey. Many today only give lip service to his Word and thus have a dead spiritual life. When you "study, PRACTICE, teach" and actually take God seriously, He will take you seriously too. Like any relationship, it is like a mirror and its value is determined on what you are willing to put into it! I was willing to take the leap of faith and I am still growing and seeking more of Him in my life. To those who doubt and are trapped in their cell of unbelief, are you willing to walk in faith? Understanding is to "stand under". How can you cast judgement on anything of value if you do not test and measure for yourself? Do you not see the wisdom of this? All forms of magic are counterfeit and miracles are authentic! This relationship is evident throughout history and even today. You will see false prophets, diviners, psychics vs. Apostles, Prophets, and Miracle Workers. Discernment is necessary to tell the difference. The counterfiet vs. the authentic, think on this. Finally I pray you will grow and test for yourself. Many have fear as the root for how far they will go. Even in life. Do not be blinded by unbelief and lack of faith.
I think we lowered the standards of what a miracle is.NOw walking on water and changing water to wine is a damn miracle.....getting in a car crash and surviving is luck....I mean thats the way the world is.What trips me out is like when a kidnapped or lost kid is found and the parents be like"its a mircale...god brought her home to us" does that mean God dident care about the other thousands of children that get murdered and never found?WHy single out a couple out of all of them.Is it just luck of the draw?SOme people die in accidents and crashes and some people survive them.....that does not automaticly make it a miracle.LIke people that win the lottery call it a miracle....no the lottery was formed and they had a contest and you won....somebody had to win.You mean to tell me God oversees the lottery drawing to?
 04-11-2008, 07:08 AM         #86
jataylorlfc 
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i hate it when religious people attribute the incredible skill and dedication of surgeons 2 a miracle, and rather the amazing ability that the human body has 2 push itself beyond what is healthy and convincingly possible in order 2 survive, e.g. a mother lifting up a car 2 save her child, while ripping her muscles and tendons 2 shreds in the process.

the bible has 2 gospels ommited which talk of jesus being an amazing man, without all the surrounding dogma, that he was the son of god, but didnt have magical powers

ffs, st. paul only said jesus was born on the 25th dec so that european and particularly british tribes would convert 2 christianity, so many idols have been born on 25th dec, e.g. Ra egyptian sun/son god, born of a virign, 3 wise men greeted his brith, new star in the sky etc.

the story of jesus is just a reproduction of other ancient storys.just liek noahs ark.
 10 years ago '04        #87
moneytime 
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I think we lowered the standards of what a miracle is.NOw walking on water and changing water to wine is a damn miracle.....getting in a car crash and surviving is luck....I mean thats the way the world is.What trips me out is like when a kidnapped or lost kid is found and the parents be like"its a mircale...god brought her home to us" does that mean God dident care about the other thousands of children that get murdered and never found?WHy single out a couple out of all of them.Is it just luck of the draw?SOme people die in accidents and crashes and some people survive them.....that does not automaticly make it a miracle.LIke people that win the lottery call it a miracle....no the lottery was formed and they had a contest and you won....somebody had to win.You mean to tell me God oversees the lottery drawing to?
Healing of devastating diseases like cancer and AIDS on the spot is not a miracle? How about the raising of a man from the dead? I have seen people healed right before my eyes. I have heard eyewitness accounts of people who have not only been raised from the dead but have experianced hell or heaven first hand. These are just a few of the accounts which I base the edification of my faith on. The true move of God in my own life and based on the transformation of those around me. I should not be surprised however at what I have read throughout this thread, because of "hollywood" and mass mind control that is a by-product of "social engineering" most people wouldn't be able to discern a move of God from there favorite sci-fi movie scene. Funny, but this dilution of reality and fantasy is talked about in the scriptures as well. When the worlds great taskmasters begin to unveil their true colors and move into bringing the one-world order reflecting the one that was originally began by none other than Nimrod the father of the occult arts himself it is going to be very interesting how people react. Referring to the hardening of peoples hearts and seeking of signs in the end times, greatly "staged events" with high technology will surely have many running in fear or adulation. True prophecy comes from heaven this is true indeed.
 10 years ago '04        #88
moneytime 
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ffs, st. paul only said jesus was born on the 25th dec so that european and particularly british tribes would convert 2 christianity, so many idols have been born on 25th dec, e.g. Ra egyptian sun/son god, born of a virign, 3 wise men greeted his brith, new star in the sky etc.
This is one of the biggest lies of all time. Since the Council of Trent this lie has been promulgated throughout the world. However Christ was not born on the 25th, this was a ploy in order to mix the pagan traditions with Christianity. Now if you use wisdom, you will see today how religon can and does control people on such massive levels. That is why messiah said that ye must be "born again", meaning in the spirit. It was the religous peoples who crucified and vilified him during his time in Jeruselem. He prophesied the Catholic church and its role and the status that they would give Mary making her an idol. All have come to pass. Let us reason together, why are there so many sects? Why are there so many faiths and why such confusion among the faiths themselves? This is not the doing of God as He is not the author of confusion. When you divide, you conquor. Simple, who would utilize and purposely maintain such conditions of poverty and crime around world? WHY? Simple it is control. Saten is a control freak, he has a short time left and he knows it. Misery loves company. What wisdom if you just apply these basic truths and take the time to disseminate it with our current time and place in history. The truth will set any free who are willing to dig and get a whole understanding. It is healthy to question but now you got to get answers? From whom however, man? NO, the docrines of man do not move me. I will seek revelation from the almighty. That is where wisdom and true understanding flows freely.
 04-11-2008, 10:58 AM         #89
jataylorlfc 
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 moneytime said:
Healing of devastating diseases like cancer and AIDS on the spot is not a miracle? How about the raising of a man from the dead? I have seen people healed right before my eyes. I have heard eyewitness accounts of people who have not only been raised from the dead but have experianced hell or heaven first hand. These are just a few of the accounts which I base the edification of my faith on. The true move of God in my own life and based on the transformation of those around me. I should not be surprised however at what I have read throughout this thread, because of "hollywood" and mass mind control that is a by-product of "social engineering" most people wouldn't be able to discern a move of God from there favorite sci-fi movie scene. Funny, but this dilution of reality and fantasy is talked about in the scriptures as well. When the worlds great taskmasters begin to unveil their true colors and move into bringing the one-world order reflecting the one that was originally began by none other than Nimrod the father of the occult arts himself it is going to be very interesting how people react. Referring to the hardening of peoples hearts and seeking of signs in the end times, greatly "staged events" with high technology will surely have many running in fear or adulation. True prophecy comes from heaven this is true indeed.
so then by your estimation, people who say theyre abducted by aliens are also correct, not just saying what they THINK is true, but it actually being true?



^^constantly debunks spirit communication, healers etc. (in that vid he convinces some americans that god exists and ultimately converting them, he is an atheist.)
 04-11-2008, 11:04 AM         #90
jataylorlfc 
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 moneytime said:
This is one of the biggest lies of all time. Since the Council of Trent this lie has been promulgated throughout the world. However Christ was not born on the 25th, this was a ploy in order to mix the pagan traditions with Christianity. Now if you use wisdom, you will see today how religon can and does control people on such massive levels. That is why messiah said that ye must be "born again", meaning in the spirit. It was thso e religous peoples who crucified and vilified him during his time in Jeruselem. He prophesied the Catholic church and its role and the status that they would give Mary making her an idol. All have come to pass. Let us reason together, why are there so many sects? Why are there so many faiths and why such confusion among the faiths themselves? This is not the doing of God as He is not the author of confusion. When you divide, you conquor. Simple, who would utilize and purposely maintain such conditions of poverty and crime around world? WHY? Simple it is control. Saten is a control freak, he has a short time left and he knows it. Misery loves company. What wisdom if you just apply these basic truths and take the time to disseminate it with our current time and place in history. The truth will set any free who are willing to dig and get a whole understanding. It is healthy to question but now you got to get answers? From whom however, man? NO, the docrines of man do not move me. I will seek revelation from the almighty. That is where wisdom and true understanding flows freely.
so how have u proved that the story of jesus (my only point u chose 2 quote) wasnt lifted from other ancient myths?

also its very good that u understand the perversion of religion and not the belief in an almighty being, but i never raised that point, you telling me that religious division is wrong (hardly a revelation) does nothing 2 address the initial point.

men can give men answers, your a tit if you have no faith in the generosity, courage and compassion of MOST human beings.

why were 2 gospels removed from the bible, if u know? was it because they contained a huge amount of talk of "flying shields" "flaming chariots shooting fire bolts" etc.?
 10 years ago '04        #91
persuazion 2 heat pts
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 moneytime said:
Healing of devastating diseases like cancer and AIDS on the spot is not a miracle? How about the raising of a man from the dead? I have seen people healed right before my eyes. I have heard eyewitness accounts of people who have not only been raised from the dead but have experianced hell or heaven first hand. These are just a few of the accounts which I base the edification of my faith on. The true move of God in my own life and based on the transformation of those around me. I should not be surprised however at what I have read throughout this thread, because of "hollywood" and mass mind control that is a by-product of "social engineering" most people wouldn't be able to discern a move of God from there favorite sci-fi movie scene. Funny, but this dilution of reality and fantasy is talked about in the scriptures as well. When the worlds great taskmasters begin to unveil their true colors and move into bringing the one-world order reflecting the one that was originally began by none other than Nimrod the father of the occult arts himself it is going to be very interesting how people react. Referring to the hardening of peoples hearts and seeking of signs in the end times, greatly "staged events" with high technology will surely have many running in fear or adulation. True prophecy comes from heaven this is true indeed.
when has the healing of cancer and aids on the spot ever existed except for on one of those late night televangilists scam shows where the fat sweaty guy in the suit is jumping around stiff arming old people down to the ground while he screams out the hotline number to call and put your creditcard info in?You keep talking about what the scripture says...to somebody that doesnt believe in it that means nothing at all...you have to find other ways of arguing your point besides referring to a book that we believe is all myth.....they did a "Hero" scale where in ancient folklore and mythology heros would have these same traits. Jesus scored right up there with Robinhood....this is the generalized "hero" pattern...now how many traits can you find that Jesus and his life can fit into?....
1: The Hero's mother is a royal virgin;
2: His father is a king, and
3: Often a near relative of his mother, but
4: The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5: He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
6: At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grandfather, to k!ll him, but
7: He his spirited away, and
8: Reared by foster-parents in a far country.
9: We are told nothing of his childhood, but
10: On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
11: After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast,
12: He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and
13: Becomes king.
14: For a time he reigns uneventfully, and
15: Prescribes laws, but
16: Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
17: Is driven from the throne and city, after which
18: He meets with a mysterious death,
19: Often at the top of a hill.
20: His children, if any, do not succeed him.
21: His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22: He has one or more holy sepulchres.
 10 years ago '04        #92
moneytime 
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so then by your estimation, people who say theyre abducted by aliens are also correct, not just saying what they THINK is true, but it actually being true?



^^constantly debunks spirit communication, healers etc. (in that vid he convinces some americans that god exists and ultimately converting them, he is an atheist.)
Ahhh but here is where wisdom and discernment comes in! I have a solid foundation in the scriptures and it is ultimately the perspective upon the world in which I utilize to as stated in the scriptures "test the spirits". Every account that I have heard has not only been consistent among those whom I have questioned but most importantly it is consistant with the Word of God. Those whom have been healed in my presence were not in a congregation of soothsayers, they were freed of infirmity in the name of Jesus Christ and His annointing upon a true believer. Whenever I recieve a prophecy I am sure to judge it by the scriptures and ultimately through prayer and validation of the Holy Ghost. Thus with anything you have stated wisdom is key. Ignorance and utter foolishness would cause me to believe a random account with out testing the validity through and through! Derren Brown utilizes hypnosis, mentalism, and NLP. I personally do no adhere to this type of manipulation of the conscious, subconsious, and subliminal mind. In the scriptures this is referred to as witchcraft or divination. As I stated above, there is the counterfeit and authentic. Derren subscribes to using the counterfeit. In the old testament scriptures there was the challenge by Elijah against the false prophets of baal. It was obvious whom was validated. The fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom!
 10 years ago '04        #93
moneytime 
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when has the healing of cancer and aids on the spot ever existed except for on one of those late night televangilists scam shows where the fat sweaty guy in the suit is jumping around stiff arming old people down to the ground while he screams out the hotline number to call and put your creditcard info in?You keep talking about what the scripture says...to somebody that doesnt believe in it that means nothing at all...you have to find other ways of arguing your point besides referring to a book that we believe is all myth.....they did a "Hero" scale where in ancient folklore and mythology heros would have these same traits. Jesus scored right up there with Robinhood....this is the generalized "hero" pattern...now how many traits can you find that Jesus and his life can fit into?....
1: The Hero's mother is a royal virgin;
2: His father is a king, and
3: Often a near relative of his mother, but
4: The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5: He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
6: At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grandfather, to k!ll him, but
7: He his spirited away, and
8: Reared by foster-parents in a far country.
9: We are told nothing of his childhood, but
10: On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
11: After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast,
12: He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and
13: Becomes king.
14: For a time he reigns uneventfully, and
15: Prescribes laws, but
16: Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
17: Is driven from the throne and city, after which
18: He meets with a mysterious death,
19: Often at the top of a hill.
20: His children, if any, do not succeed him.
21: His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22: He has one or more holy sepulchres.
I am very sorry that you have witnessed the outright buffoonery by many whom because of greed have decieved millions in this country. I pray those wounds which I am sure have disillusioned many including you will not prevent you from seeking the truth on a personal level and not through man. I do not seek spiritual growth nor necessarily believe what I see on the majority of television shows. This is because I now understand that it is a medium of mass deception utilized to dumb down the population on a mass scale. Also because everything I see done by these "self-professed" men of God contradict what I read in the Scriptures. Now I can understand how this can shape a persons perception on the faith. However that should not not be reason enough to pass judgement on the rest of the population of believers whom are sincere and truly adhere to the Word of God as the foundation of their faith. Discernment in these days and times are necessary and unfortunately there are many who are willing to capitalize upon the ignorance of those who are hungry and seeking real help. Jesus Christ condemns these men and their capitalization upon the widow and fatherless countless times throughout the scriptures. That is on a personal note, as I was turned off by this behaviour as a child myself. As for the similar accounts of mythology and folklore, I will state again that there is constantly the relationship between the authentic and the counterfeit. Satan can not create, but he can imitate. Discernment is necessary and wisdom in judgement is essential in order to wade through the lies and misinformation.
 10 years ago '06        #94
anynameado 
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I see there is alot of non believer on this site. I used to fuss and argue with those people all the time until i realize that it isnt me who can change there hearts but God. So now all I do is pray and ask God to forgive them and not only them for not believing but also all of us for the sins that we commit
 04-11-2008, 11:55 AM         #95
jataylorlfc 
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but you provide no proof or evidence

this is why debating is impossible with religious people, i argue in facts, you simply quote others, say how u know theyre telling the truth when u dont.

u simply respond with a section on how u have interpreted the scriptures, how the scriptures affect u, instead of actually adressing the point which u keep avoiding,- was the story of jesus simply a recreation and bonding of older myths, or is it just coincidence that these appeared well before christ?

its the equivalent of saying-"look that way"

also i know theyre are people (alot of buddist monks) who have scientifically shown they are manipulating their bodies in such a way that they can achieve almost super human abilities,distortion of electo-magnetic waves etc.

personally i believe religion is exactly what we understand it to be - a route of explanation, gods from heaven (space) etc. its much more likely 2 me that aliens may have visited and been viewed as gods by primitive man, maybe even engineering MODERN man themselves, "god made man in his own image"

the sumerians had knowledge of DNA 1000s of years ago, they mapped the stars CORRECTLY (e.g not placing the earth at the centre of the universe, getting the planets alignments correct etc.) while this would not be achieved again until the invention of the telescope

what about 2012? the mayans predicted this 2 be the great change, the last age, and we know now, on the EXACT date specified by the mayans the sun will flip on its axis.

all very intriguing.
 10 years ago '04        #96
moneytime 
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so how have u proved that the story of jesus (my only point u chose 2 quote) wasnt lifted from other ancient myths?

also its very good that u understand the perversion of religion and not the belief in an almighty being, but i never raised that point, you telling me that religious division is wrong (hardly a revelation) does nothing 2 address the initial point.

men can give men answers, your a tit if you have no faith in the generosity, courage and compassion of MOST human beings.

why were 2 gospels removed from the bible, if u know? was it because they contained a huge amount of talk of "flying shields" "flaming chariots shooting fire bolts" etc.?
As I do not mine, I was simply picking out one among your various complaints to explain. I like to reason upon the grounds that I am able and knowledgable. Nothing wrong with sincerity but I have enough wisdom to know that a human being can be sincerely wrong. Thus I have checks and balances that are prescribed in the scriptures which I use often. Now which 2 gospels are you referring to if you don't mind me asking. I know of the Book of Enoch which is excellent and the Book of Jasher as well. I have also studied a bit of Hebrew to help to further grow in my translations of Hebrew so I can refer back in the transliteration of words and phrases when need be.
 10 years ago '04        #97
moneytime 
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but you provide no proof or evidence

this is why debating is impossible with religious people, i argue in facts, you simply quote others, say how u know theyre telling the truth when u dont.

u simply respond with a section on how u have interpreted the scriptures, how the scriptures affect u, instead of actually adressing the point which u keep avoiding,- was the story of jesus simply a recreation and bonding of older myths, or is it just coincidence that these appeared well before christ?

its the equivalent of saying-"look that way"
Whom are the others that I am quoting? Man is flawed, God is perfect. This understanding is why I quote the scriptures in my explanations because they are the Word of God. I've stated this relationship of authentic vs. counterfeit to varying degrees already I believe. I thought this would shed some light and begin the thinking process to go back and think how does this relate to history? There is nothing new under the sun. Cain was born before Abel, there were two Enochs, one born in the Cananite line and the other the Sethic. I am sorry if you do not see the correlation yet. That just validates the point made by messiah, "ye must be born again". To the best of my ability I can break things down in a somewhat "conceptual secular fashion". Only problem is the truth is deeper than that and you must see with spiritual eyes. Do not confuse religous with spiritual. There is a profound difference, but like with most things in a carnal frame of thinking it will be hard to comprehend.
 10 years ago '07        #98
eeee87 
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 10 years ago '04        #99
l0udm0uf 1 heat pts
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they're all just stories
 04-11-2008, 08:03 PM         #100
AlexG1989 
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fu*k this thread.....bible = fictional fu*kin book, religions = ALL BULLsh*t
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