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FACTS or NAH: NWA had a bigger impact on Hip Hop than A Tribe Called Quest



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 4 weeks ago '21        #51
Aztec King 
Props total: 4100 4 K  Slaps total: 1083 1 K
 Strong44 said
You do realize NWA's debut album touched on Black issues more than Tribe's, right? PITPR was more positive than it was conscious but that's another topic by itself.

And NWA helped one of the most pro-Black rappers, Ice Cube, go Platinum in the 90's.

I know NWA has plenty of faults but this is such as lazy diatribe against them based on old sensational headlines.
It's obvious a lot of people on here have never listened to The Predator
+1   

 4 weeks ago '21        #52
Strong44 
Props total: 829 829  Slaps total: 265 265
 Aztec King said
It's obvious a lot of people on here have never listened to The Predator
n*ggas here are going by popular opinions and labels.

Tribe was always more of an innovative and positive group than a militant or conscious one.

As much sh*t NWA sometimes gets for controversy or having negative content, they touched on Black issues, policing, conditions of the streets, etc. no differently than KRS One and Public Enemy. They just had more controversy for naming their song "fu*k The Police" which triggered White Conversatives and soccer moms back then.

Now NWA's second album had crazy content but it was more shock value than anything. And NWA's popularity helped launched Cube's solo career.

Like I said, n*ggas get too caught up in the headlines and labels to break it down.

NWA being labeled "gangsta rap" on their debut was something White Republicans and the media did to discredit them. They did the same with Tupac too.
+5   

 4 weeks ago '16        #53
Djackso2 
Props total: 2579 2 K  Slaps total: 470 470
NwA lasted from 1987-1991. Tribe from 1990-1996. Album wise tribe wins as individual NwA wins.
-1   

 4 weeks ago '04        #54
R Dot 
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NWA predates tribe but Queens still get the money long time no cash
+1   

 4 weeks ago '05        #55
CartelFamill 
Props total: 12864 12 K  Slaps total: 1475 1 K
This is Cold Fact....

But against Public Enemy We Having a Diffirent Conversation tho
+1   

 4 weeks ago '13        #56
Hayek  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x3
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Duh tf.

 4 weeks ago '05        #57
CartelFamill 
Props total: 12864 12 K  Slaps total: 1475 1 K
 Holdino said
Eminem nor 50 cent blows up without Dre

Neither does Busta.

Priority Records isn't rich without Cube. So Possibly no Master P

Without Easy No bone thugs or Black Eyed Peas and others on Ruthless...

I can go on
Busta was Platinum Artist A Decade Plus Before he fu*ked wit Dre.....WTF are You Talking about ?
+5   

 4 weeks ago '05        #58
CartelFamill 
Props total: 12864 12 K  Slaps total: 1475 1 K
 recreal said
The better question is why?

Was the budget the same?

Doesn't your man have the number 1 song of all time? Must be the goat.

What's the point?
Tribe probably had Bigger Budget and Less control.....EAZY E Owned Ruthless and Indy
+3   

 4 weeks ago '04        #59
Mega 
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And now bloods and crips are nationwide because of what record labels and white execs promoted
+1   

 4 weeks ago '06        #60
angelo noel 
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Facts
+1   

 4 weeks ago '15        #61
mawu 
Props total: 7598 7 K  Slaps total: 549 549
Sure it's NWA but That native tongue tree ain't no joke
+2   

 4 weeks ago '16        #62
ghoti 
Props total: 2252 2 K  Slaps total: 149 149
Comparing the two is negligible. But the impact in terms of the direction and overall influence of rap was changed by NWA. ATCQ place in hip hop is secured, any hip hop head will always bring up ATCQ/TIP/Native tongues in some regards, but from a broader picture NWA wins hands down.

At the time NWA signalled the end of conscience rap being in the mainstream. Up until the time NWA/PE dropped being original in your sound and look was still a thing. However, anyone who has followed the history you see this is the era where labels and execs where really starting to see the value and Money to be made from rap music.

During this time specifically with NWA/PE, labels started looking for the next NWA/PE and you started getting all these lookalike gangster/conscious rappers.

As is evident as to who came out victorious, NWA clearly had the bigger impact.
+1   

 4 weeks ago '17        #63
Its 
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Although I agree, I don't see the point
It's just more division imo
+2   

 4 weeks ago '17        #64
Mperfection 
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And as a culture we suffered ever since. Funny how another group pushed this image of us and we ate it up.
+4   

 4 weeks ago '18        #65
Steve Gee97  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x3
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NWA opened the floodgates to vulgarity nowadays.....


They also made White People afraid.
+1   

 4 weeks ago '18        #66
Proffesor X  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x3
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 S-Class said
Yeah but without NWA you donít get gangster rap in general

Take out NWA and you take out West Coast Hiphop...take out Tribe and you've an incredibly dope group....but the movement would have still been strong despite.....
+1   

 4 weeks ago '18        #67
Proffesor X  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x3
Props total: 64810 64 K  Slaps total: 15284 15 K
 Steve Gee97 said
NWA opened the floodgates to vulgarity nowadays.....


They also made White People afraid.
That amongst other things.....in reality they exposed how vulgar our society is and was though...people got more upset at them talking about it..then the actual fact it was happening.....which is backwards as hell..but that's Murica for you...cancel culture been here
+2   

 4 weeks ago '20        #68
Gen Anti Fruit  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x9
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True but so what?

Apples and Oranges

NWA took a risk Tribe didn’t.

Both are legends but NWA kicked down the door with a shotgun.
While Tribe smoothly rolled up and introduced themselves while burning incense.

Both were teachers.

Crazy how these younger generations don’t love Tribe that much.
I see little comments disregarding their legacy when ATCQ was adored
by pretty much everybody in the 90’s and even early 2000’s. Tribe is amazing but they were safe and welcoming while NWA was just as amazing but stood out more due to controversy and content. Both talented legends that changed the game in their own ways.
+1   

 4 weeks ago '21        #69
Strong44 
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 Mperfection said
And as a culture we suffered ever since. Funny how another group pushed this image of us and we ate it up.
Tell me...besides curse words, how tf was Straight Outta Compton not a conscious album? Isn't touching on the reality of Black people in the streets, police brutality, and racism conscious?

And how was Bonita Applebum more conscious/political than fu*k The Police?

Some of ya'll need to chill using White media talking points to rewrite history for NWA. The only time NWA ran out of steam content wise was their 2nd album where they relied on shock value no differently than Brotha Lynch Hung, Kool G Rap, and early Eminem.

NWA has flaws like many rappers but some of ya'll are legit rewriting history for NWA based on headlines. NWA helped a conscious rapper named Ice Cube go Platinum in the 90's ffs.
+3   

 4 weeks ago '20        #70
Gen Anti Fruit  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x9
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 5ive04our said
Tribe is a after thought in hip hop when you think of gangster rap you think of NWA
Thatís that bullsh*t Iím talking about.


+1   

 4 weeks ago '19        #71
Okka  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x2
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Most definitely.


+4   

 4 weeks ago '21        #72
TheIronyIsThat 
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Gangster rap hasn't stopped and even if most of it is sub-genres now:

It's still gangster rap.
+1   

 4 weeks ago '10        #73
Bandito 
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 JRob1125 said
I agree, I just think NWA had a bigger impact. Not saying Tribe had no impact, just that most of mainstream right now is gangsta rap influenced
First off. This is going to be a long post. I am not picking on you @ Your post just sparked something inside me where I felt the need to respond. This is all a first person account of how I saw it. I was there when all the music I talk about was released. I didn't read this on the internet or in a book. Yeah. I'm a old fu*ker about to hit 50.

Is mainstream rap really gangster right now?

For at least the last 5 years it has been druggie Emo rap. It has been more influenced by Kanye and Drake. You can maybe make the case for Future and Migos. But, they soft compared to the gangster rap of the 90's. As sad as it for me to say, Cardi B may be the most hardcore mainstream rapper the last few years.

Kendrick and Cole have always had their conscious side from the beginning and more align with what Tribe were doing.

If were are to go deeper, NWA didn't form in a vacuum. There were others in the LA area at the same time like Ice T (already mentioned), King Tee (helped bring DJ Pooh's production to a wider audience and he would later bring other artists up), Low Profile (WC's first group with DJ Alladin). Kid Frost was around back then. MC Eiht and Compton's Most Wanted put their first single out the same year as Straight Outta Compton. Last but not least was The D.O.C. who started with the Fila Fresh Crew and appeared on the NWA and The Posse album. There were many others where time has passed and their names have been forgotten. You can do you own digging if you want to know about the early history of LA Hip Hop.

All those artists had varying success. Some became more successful. Some fell off. But, they all contributed to what came to be known as the LA gangster rap sound. Everything after had something from that generation in their DNA.

Now let's look at A Tribe Called Quest. They were also a part of a larger movement. Even though their own collective of the Native Tongues had De La Soul, Jungle Brothers, Queen Latifah, Monie Love, Leaders of the New School. Did somebody earlier really say Dre put Busta on?

They were part of a New York sound that incorporated boom bap drums with jazz melodies. Gangstarr, Pete Rock & CL Smooth, The Pharcyde (I know from LA), Brand Nubian and Puba solo. The list goes on. There was also the afrocentrism of the lyrics down to the fashion. Their most obvious influence on the next ups were The Fugees. You can also add Kanye a little bit later. But, the missing link between all them is J Dilla. He worked with most of the previously mentioned artists. Forgot about Common (Sense) also coming out around that time. Which leads to Jay Dee's group, Slum Village, Mos Def, Talib Kweli and The Roots.

Now we are getting back to the who influenced Kanye conversation. I'm not seeing Kid Frost or MC Eiht there. Maybe some DJ Quik. What you do see is a direct lineage going back to A Tribe Called Quest.

As far as who NWA and their offshoots influenced in the present day. I am not seeing their lyrical content really reflected in today's music. What mainstream artist is putting out a song like A bi*ch Iz A bi*ch? The n*gga You Love To Hate? Kendrick got close with The Blacker The Berry.

Musically, I don't see anyone doing what Dre was 20 years ago. Let alone 30. His music has actually got more simplified over the years to keep up with times.

That same argument can be made about Tribe as well. Jazz samples have fell out of favor in the mainstream.

So, what are the current mainstream artists influenced by?

Bass

I would put 2 Live Crew into the conversation. 808s and Heartbreaks as Kanye would say.

Take nearly every musical trend in Hip Hop for the last 30+ years and you can see how it progressed from the Miami Bass sound of the early and mid-80's.

We are going to incestuous territory here as the music starts getting into a circular motion.

When Dr Dre first started producing his own music it was in the (what was called on the West Coast) Electro style. 808 drums played at fast BPMs. In Florida, it was called Freestyle. Very similar. Although, I will give it to West for being more lyrical at that time. While they were more musically connected to Miami, they were looking to New York City as their competition on the microphone.

Let's skip to around 1985/86. 2 Live Crew are putting out their first records with Luke after relocating to Miami from LA. Dre is making mixtapes to sell at the swap meets around LA. What songs does Dre put in his mixes? He seems infatuated with the fu*king Beastie Boys. Which may seem weird now. But, back then they were being played in the hood just like Run-DMC. This is also the time Dre hooks up with Ice Cube and his group The C.I.A. (Cru In Action) that sound like a Beastie Boys ripoff.

They even sampled the Beasties.



Now if you listen to that track. It is all about the drum machine. Cube even has a verse at the beginning where he says "I love my woofer and hate my tweeter."

Now. Why I am harping on the Beastie Boys/NWA connection? Because the majority of that first Beasties album was very rooted in the 808 sound. Although, it was slowed down a little bit from Freestyle/Electro.

Going back to the C.I.A. sample. Everyone turned up the last minute and a half of this.



You also have Paul Revere and its reversed baseline. There's a video somewhere on YouTube of Mike D talking about that 808 and how many records were made with it if you want to know more.

Next out of Def Jam was LL Cool J. Another drum machine heavy debut album. I guess Dre wasn't feeling LL at that time because he didn't really feature him on his swap meet mixtapes. Truth be told half that first LL record was kinda flat. The lyrics were there.

This is straight up Miami Bass



Next Dre got on to Public Enemy. Another group that utilized the 808 on their first record. But, with a difference with The bomb Squad on production. You see the influence on Dre with how he went with the more sound collage style of The bomb Squad on his material after C.I.A going into N.W.A.

If you listen close you can hear how this could be an inspiration for Straight Outta Compton.



Now we are at the point where The 2 Live Crew, Beastie Boys, LL, Public Enemy, NWA are all making music. Enter A Tribe Called Quest.

You may be asking yourself why I spent so much time explaining why Dre was influenced by the Miami Bass sound and why New York rappers were using 808 drum machines. Because Tribe were not immune to those influences either. As "jazzy" as their music is it still comes back to the essence.

This could have been any artist on the West Coast in 1989. Young MC would have k*lled this beat



In my head, this is the alternate beat to Straight Outta Compton. Imagine Cube coming in after the God Save The Queen intro.



That's my breakdown of the two groups this thread is about. I added a few more. 2 Live, Beastie Boys and how they are all interconnected and have the same influences and have influenced the same people. I could go deeper. But, this was all off the top of my head.

So, I did the most influential groups. What about the most influential person? I got Rudy Ray Moore. But, I'll save that for another thread.
+2   

 4 weeks ago '21        #74
Aztec King 
Props total: 4100 4 K  Slaps total: 1083 1 K
 Bandito said
First off. This is going to be a long post. I am not picking on you @ Your post just sparked something inside me where I felt the need to respond. This is all a first person account of how I saw it. I was there when all the music I talk about was released. I didn't read this on the internet or in a book. Yeah. I'm a old fu*ker about to hit 50.

Is mainstream rap really gangster right now?

For at least the last 5 years it has been druggie Emo rap. It has been more influenced by Kanye and Drake. You can maybe make the case for Future and Migos. But, they soft compared to the gangster rap of the 90's. As sad as it for me to say, Cardi B may be the most hardcore mainstream rapper the last few years.

Kendrick and Cole have always had their conscious side from the beginning and more align with what Tribe were doing.

If were are to go deeper, NWA didn't form in a vacuum. There were others in the LA area at the same time like Ice T (already mentioned), King Tee (helped bring DJ Pooh's production to a wider audience and he would later bring other artists up), Low Profile (WC's first group with DJ Alladin). Kid Frost was around back then. MC Eiht and Compton's Most Wanted put their first single out the same year as Straight Outta Compton. Last but not least was The D.O.C. who started with the Fila Fresh Crew and appeared on the NWA and The Posse album. There were many others where time has passed and their names have been forgotten. You can do you own digging if you want to know about the early history of LA Hip Hop.

All those artists had varying success. Some became more successful. Some fell off. But, they all contributed to what came to be known as the LA gangster rap sound. Everything after had something from that generation in their DNA.

Now let's look at A Tribe Called Quest. They were also a part of a larger movement. Even though their own collective of the Native Tongues had De La Soul, Jungle Brothers, Queen Latifah, Monie Love, Leaders of the New School. Did somebody earlier really say Dre put Busta on?

They were part of a New York sound that incorporated boom bap drums with jazz melodies. Gangstarr, Pete Rock & CL Smooth, The Pharcyde (I know from LA), Brand Nubian and Puba solo. The list goes on. There was also the afrocentrism of the lyrics down to the fashion. Their most obvious influence on the next ups were The Fugees. You can also add Kanye a little bit later. But, the missing link between all them is J Dilla. He worked with most of the previously mentioned artists. Forgot about Common (Sense) also coming out around that time. Which leads to Jay Dee's group, Slum Village, Mos Def, Talib Kweli and The Roots.

Now we are getting back to the who influenced Kanye conversation. I'm not seeing Kid Frost or MC Eiht there. Maybe some DJ Quik. What you do see is a direct lineage going back to A Tribe Called Quest.

As far as who NWA and their offshoots influenced in the present day. I am not seeing their lyrical content really reflected in today's music. What mainstream artist is putting out a song like A bi*ch Iz A bi*ch? The n*gga You Love To Hate? Kendrick got close with The Blacker The Berry.

Musically, I don't see anyone doing what Dre was 20 years ago. Let alone 30. His music has actually got more simplified over the years to keep up with times.

That same argument can be made about Tribe as well. Jazz samples have fell out of favor in the mainstream.

So, what are the current mainstream artists influenced by?

Bass

I would put 2 Live Crew into the conversation. 808s and Heartbreaks as Kanye would say.

Take nearly every musical trend in Hip Hop for the last 30+ years and you can see how it progressed from the Miami Bass sound of the early and mid-80's.

We are going to incestuous territory here as the music starts getting into a circular motion.

When Dr Dre first started producing his own music it was in the (what was called on the West Coast) Electro style. 808 drums played at fast BPMs. In Florida, it was called Freestyle. Very similar. Although, I will give it to West for being more lyrical at that time. While they were more musically connected to Miami, they were looking to New York City as their competition on the microphone.

Let's skip to around 1985/86. 2 Live Crew are putting out their first records with Luke after relocating to Miami from LA. Dre is making mixtapes to sell at the swap meets around LA. What songs does Dre put in his mixes? He seems infatuated with the fu*king Beastie Boys. Which may seem weird now. But, back then they were being played in the hood just like Run-DMC. This is also the time Dre hooks up with Ice Cube and his group The C.I.A. (Cru In Action) that sound like a Beastie Boys ripoff.

They even sampled the Beasties.




Now if you listen to that track. It is all about the drum machine. Cube even has a verse at the beginning where he says "I love my woofer and hate my tweeter."

Now. Why I am harping on the Beastie Boys/NWA connection? Because the majority of that first Beasties album was very rooted in the 808 sound. Although, it was slowed down a little bit from Freestyle/Electro.

Going back to the C.I.A. sample. Everyone turned up the last minute and a half of this.




You also have Paul Revere and its reversed baseline. There's a video somewhere on YouTube of Mike D talking about that 808 and how many records were made with it if you want to know more.

Next out of Def Jam was LL Cool J. Another drum machine heavy debut album. I guess Dre wasn't feeling LL at that time because he didn't really feature him on his swap meet mixtapes. Truth be told half that first LL record was kinda flat. The lyrics were there.

This is straight up Miami Bass




Next Dre got on to Public Enemy. Another group that utilized the 808 on their first record. But, with a difference with The bomb Squad on production. You see the influence on Dre with how he went with the more sound collage style of The bomb Squad on his material after C.I.A going into N.W.A.

If you listen close you can hear how this could be an inspiration for Straight Outta Compton.




Now we are at the point where The 2 Live Crew, Beastie Boys, LL, Public Enemy, NWA are all making music. Enter A Tribe Called Quest.

You may be asking yourself why I spent so much time explaining why Dre was influenced by the Miami Bass sound and why New York rappers were using 808 drum machines. Because Tribe were not immune to those influences either. As "jazzy" as their music is it still comes back to the essence.

This could have been any artist on the West Coast in 1989. Young MC would have k*lled this beat




In my head, this is the alternate beat to Straight Outta Compton. Imagine Cube coming in after the God Save The Queen intro.




That's my breakdown of the two groups this thread is about. I added a few more. 2 Live, Beastie Boys and how they are all interconnected and have the same influences and have influenced the same people. I could go deeper. But, this was all off the top of my head.

So, I did the most influential groups. What about the most influential person? I got Rudy Ray Moore. But, I'll save that for another thread.
How you gonna type all that and not mention Too Short or even Spice 1.
+1   

 4 weeks ago '15        #75
Hellmatic 
Props total: 45095 45 K  Slaps total: 4477 4 K
This isn't a debate

I prefer listening to tribe tho


Last edited by Hellmatic; 09-25-2021 at 03:32 AM..



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