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Dec 2 - The "Diploma Disease", Over-educated Job Seekers Flood The Worlds Job Markets


 
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 3 months ago '04        #1
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mr_underground|m 2142 heat pts2142
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Dec 2 - The "Diploma Disease", Over-educated Job Seekers Flood The Worlds Job Markets
 

 
quick summary:

- the article is mainly about korea where people spend the first 30 years of life studying and getting diplomas, degrees and certifications and then learning the real world doesn't match and it leads to the insane suicide rates they have.

- this is also a worldwide problem but not to epidemic suicide level like korea.

- this leads to an over-saturation of people unprepared for living life as the world isn't multipe choice nor does it have 1 correct answer

- this leads to a world not based on skill but on flashing a piece of paper as a proxy for skill resulting in bad outcomes and lots of stress.

- there are so many people with degrees it has almost no value and in the U.S. it comes at a high cost creating massive debt

- young people in korea and japan have no hope for the future.

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South Korea’s annual Suneung examination is a big deal – so big it has repercussions for the whole country.

On Thursday, when the exam was held, aeroplanes took alternate routes to reduce noise, the country’s banks and financial markets started trading later than usual, and buses and subways increased their frequency – all to facilitate smoother traffic and a calmer environment for the 590,000 high school students who took the marathon nine-hour exam, according to Yonsei News.

“Suneung” is a Korean abbreviation for the country’s “life-defining” College Scholastic Ability Test, a standardised national university-entrance exam often likened to a Korean version of the American SATs.

The exam included tests on subjects such as Korean geography, ethics and thought, law and politics, world history, and countless other topics. Achieving a high score is a testament not only of one’s academic abilities, but also a mark that seemingly defines the entire course of a South Korean’s destiny.

Students begin studying for Suneung from as early as 13 or 14, during their first year of high school, attending extracurricular study academies and cram schools for hours each day after their regular classes – up to 16 hours of studying each day. Many dream of entering Korea’s top-tier “Ivy League” universities: Seoul National University, Korea University and Yonsei University, often referred to by the acronym “SKY”.

Among the hundreds of thousands who take the exam, only 2 per cent will receive coveted offers to study at these universities, according to a BBC report. And while an estimated 70 per cent, according to the same report, will go on to study at other higher-learning institutions, this lifestyle of study continues long past their university days.

OVER-EDUCATED SOCIETY

Millions of South Koreans such as Lee Jin-hyeong are forced to keep studying even after college. “I study every day, from 9am to 1am,” said Lee, who spends most of his time at goshiwon (study rooms) and libraries in Seoul. At the age of 35, Lee, who majored in computer science at university and is studying to take the public-service exam in hopes of becoming a police officer, has yet to begin his first full-time job.

In South Korea, many white-collar roles in industries such as civil service, design, journalism – and even much-sought-after entry-level positions at the nation’s chaebol such as Samsung, LG and Hyundai – all require passing extensive examinations, earning certificates and other qualifications.

Throughout her life, 29-year-old Minji Kim (not her real name) said she had taken more than 50 such “life-defining” exams, including Suneung as well as tests for middle-school entry, special licences, and journalism jobs.

“I started taking these kinds of tests since elementary school,” Kim said. “For some exams, I knew they were potentially life-changing, and so I couldn’t go out on weekends because I needed to spend all my time studying.

“In August 2015, I took my first-ever exam for a journalism job,” she said. “You submit your application and then write an essay and sit for a test so they can a*sess your knowledge on subjects such as sociology, economics, politics, and even hanja [Chinese characters]. I wrote the two essays within two hours and [then] there was even a ‘drinking test’ – where you have a drink together with the hirer, and they check your behaviour.”

Kim said these tests could take from days up to weeks at a time, and often require applicants to “put their lives on hold” to advance to the next level.

“Some of my friends who live outside Seoul come the day before and book a hotel just to take the exam,” she said. “It happens every weekend for them. It costs a lot, they don’t know when they will get the results and companies don’t compensate for this.”

But even after getting a job, Kim said almost every form of advancement in South Korean professional sectors requires passing an exam. “If you want to get a promotion in your company you also need to take a test for your promotion – you need to achieve a specific grade or licence for instance.”

Koreans are fond of standardised exams as an objective measure of one’s qualifications, according to Shin Gi-wook, professor of sociology and director of the Korean programme at Stanford University.

“Koreans value unity and thus feel more comfortable when everyone is judged on the same basis where there is little room for debate and subjectivity,” he said. “The function of exams in modern Korea is that good scores from the exam add credible values to the person’s qualifications, which might be the easiest and the simplest way to secure one’s future in such a highly stratified society.”

In Lee Jin-hyeong’s case, he has taken the public service exam up to four times each year over several years, but has not yet achieved the results needed to move onto the next stage.

“Most people in their 20s and 30s who come to the library like me every day, are studying for similar exams to become government officials, police officers, firef*ghters. I’d say about 80 per cent of them are in the same situation,” Lee said.

Most exams were offered only once or twice a year at most, Shin said. “Those who don’t get good enough results to get into top-tier universities or companies will need to wait another year to retake the exam.”

Two-thirds of South Koreans aged between 25 and 34 have college degrees, the highest proportion among the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development countries. Much like Lee, many of that demographic opt to put their social lives, dating, marriage and other rites of adulthood on hold until they are able to get their first job. Unfortunately, this can take up to a decade.

“Korean society is also very sensitive to age and most companies set an upper age limit for hires,” said Shin, the academic. “Those who fail to prove their worth in the job market in their 20s and 30s will have a much harder time to do so at a later point in their life.”

“There is a great sense of pressure to pass my public service exam,” Lee said. “The more years I’ve spent studying for it, the more this pressure has seemed to build.”

MORE TO LIFE THAN STUDYING?

But in a society many young Koreans call “Hell Joseon” in reference to the lack of social mobility, job opportunities and the overall sense of hopelessness they feel – and where the youth unemployment rate for those between the ages of 15 and 29 was 11.9 per cent in the first half of this year, the highest since 2015 – critics have long questioned whether South Korea’s culture of extreme exams is in fact necessary.

Studying in moderation is a good thing, said John Lie, a sociology professor at the University of California, Berkeley. “However, studying all day and into the night as in the case of South Korea – it’s terrible for the children and not at all that functional for society, whether we’re concerned with productivity or happiness.”

While most young Koreans continue to forge ahead in the hope of moving on in life, a small resistance exists. On Thursday afternoon, a group of high school students protested against the unfairness of the Suneung exam system, saying they did not wanted to be “graded” and branded in life like pieces of “beef”.

“We refuse to compete,” the dozen or so students shouted, holding signs bearing slogans such as “University is not [at] the centre [of everything]” outside Seoul’s City Hall.

Experts such as Shin from Stanford say South Korea’s culture of extreme studying leaves young South Koreans ill prepared for real life. “These young people spend the first 25 to 30 years of their life studying for exams, and when they finally move out of their shell into the real world and realise life is not a multiple choice test, and there isn’t always a clear-cut answer to every problem, that’s already a mid-life crisis for them in a way,” he said. “It is both physically draining and mentally not healthy to spend one’s young adulthood studying for exams after exams.”

The obsession with education is partly a legacy of South Korea’s tradition of Confucianism, but it also has a modern social and historical context, Shin said.

“Education was the main source of social mobility in Korea during its developmental period,” he explained. “Koreans believe that without its nation-led obsession with education it could not have achieved the status that it has today in the world economy … Education is at the core of South Korea’s endeavours to succeed.”

He adds that there is certainly room for improvement in the current system of college admission and job qualifications.

“For example, there should be diversified admissions criteria such as commitment, leadership, et cetera,” he said. “Some schools do seek to reform their approach to admissions and try to incorporate different criteria but it’s still at a superficial level. For Korean universities and corporations to better compete with their global competitors, we need to see some positive changes to the current rigid system.”

It’s becoming dysfunctional – a “diploma disease”, said Lie from UC Berkeley, referring to the high number of overeducated jobseekers flooding an already overcrowded job market.

“Do modern societies need auto mechanics and plumbers, chefs and pop stars? Obviously, yes,” he said. “Do they need college degrees or advanced certificates? I don’t think so.”

Minji Kim, who now works at a British firm, said even though she did not have to take tests to qualify for her current position, she expects to be studying again in the future.

“I don’t want to take more exams,” she said. “But I think I will have to, as long as I live here.”

visit this link https://www.scmp.com/week .. lifetime-study


Last edited by mr_underground; 12-03-2018 at 01:05 AM..
+18   

74 comments for "Dec 2 - The "Diploma Disease", Over-educated Job Seekers Flood The Worlds Job Markets"

 3 months ago '16        #2
Aztlan 84 heat pts84
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Okay. So just let everyone try it without degrees and an education and see how much better the world will be.
+2   

 3 months ago '15        #3
PineappleOG 37 heat pts37
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 Aztlan said
Okay. So just let everyone try it without degrees and an education and see how much better the world will be.
If people self educate which is a big if, but if they did they would be better off. We live in a world especially in the modern USA with the liberal education you end up with a fu*k ton of sociologists with no sociology to do. I would guess more than half the degrees out there are working in something completely unrelated to their degree, i see it so much in the market its stupid
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 3 months ago '17        #4
yousabitch 
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 Aztlan said
Okay. So just let everyone try it without degrees and an education and see how much better the world will be.
lets get real...for most careers you can learn the sh*t on the job and save 100,000 in tuition....there are certain ones that you obviously need to be educated...most college grads dont know sh*t about their career they learn it on the job as well
+24   

 3 months ago '16        #5
Aztlan 84 heat pts84
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 PineappleOG said
If people self educate which is a big if, but if they did they would be better off. We live in a world especially in the modern USA with the liberal education you end up with a fu*k ton of sociologists with no sociology to do. I would guess more than half the degrees out there are working in something completely unrelated to their degree, i see it so much in the market its stupid
People who self educate end up being Trump voters
-8   

 3 months ago '16        #6
Aztlan 84 heat pts84
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 yousabi*ch said
lets get real...for most careers you can learn the sh*t on the job and save 100,000 in tuition....there are certain ones that you obviously need to be educated...most college grads dont know sh*t about their career they learn it on the job as well
Of course, but how can hiring managers differentiate between a bunch of 18 year olds with no experience or credentials?

A college degree is just as much a weeding out process as it is about the education you receive.
+1   

Top 10 most propped recently  3 months ago '17        #7
Willy Boban 191 heat pts191
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 PineappleOG said
If people self educate which is a big if, but if they did they would be better off. We live in a world especially in the modern USA with the liberal education you end up with a fu*k ton of sociologists with no sociology to do. I would guess more than half the degrees out there are working in something completely unrelated to their degree, i see it so much in the market its stupid
I know dudes that would make great civil suit lawyers due to their thinking and mouthpiece game.

But the schooling and Bar that covers every aspect of the law is just too much education, time and money.

So anyone can finesse a jury.

But not everyone can complete the necessary education to get to that point.


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 3 months ago '16        #8
144000 68 heat pts68
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I fought this disease on full scholarship, for 8 years.



Luckily, it never surpassed the sophomore stages.
-1   

 3 months ago '15        #9
PineappleOG 37 heat pts37
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 Aztlan said
People who self educate end up being Trump voters
Iím not one, thatís the only education I have
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 3 months ago '04        #10
etchasketch 58 heat pts58
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 yousabi*ch said
lets get real...for most careers you can learn the sh*t on the job and save 100,000 in tuition....there are certain ones that you obviously need to be educated...most college grads dont know sh*t about their career they learn it on the job as well
You are right that you can learn most of the skills on the job, but the door won't open to you unless you have the degree.
+2   

 3 months ago '17        #11
Class of 2017 12 heat pts12
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 Aztlan said
People who self educate end up being Trump voters
I don't think youtube conspiracy videos and 4chan counts as self education my G.

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 3 months ago '04        #12
etchasketch 58 heat pts58
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 Aztlan said
Of course, but how can hiring managers differentiate between a bunch of 18 year olds with no experience or credentials?

A college degree is just as much a weeding out process as it is about the education you receive.
This is a fact. I went to college and have since graduated and been in the work force for about 8 years and I don't believe that anything I learned in college applies to the real world. HOWEVER One thing I realized about college is that it lets people know who can persevere and overcome challenges.

There are 1,000,000 reason to drop out of college (money, stress, family, relationships, illness, etc., etc.) but it takes a focused person who can manage their time and hunker down to make it through.

I believe that employers understand that four years taking English 101, Biology, random electives and whatnot don't translate but it shows that they won't be bum a*s workers.
+10   

 3 months ago '15        #13
40 acres 32 heat pts32
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I have come to the conclusion humanity is becoming less fit for survival. People act of want and naive ideologies. Which is why they end up with bullsh*t degrees and crippling debt. Money and success still exist but the most common place it exists right now is in job sectors people don't want.


Last edited by 40 acres; 12-02-2018 at 04:02 PM..
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 3 months ago '16        #14
MrCiiNeMa 17 heat pts17
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 etchasketch said
This is a fact. I went to college and have since graduated and been in the work force for about 8 years and I don't believe that anything I learned in college applies to the real world. HOWEVER One thing I realized about college is that it lets people know who can persevere and overcome challenges.

There are 1,000,000 reason to drop out of college (money, stress, family, relationships, illness, etc., etc.) but it takes a focused person who can manage their time and hunker down to make it through.

I believe that employers understand that four years taking English 101, Biology, random electives and whatnot don't translate but it shows that they won't be bum a*s workers.
Or it shows you know how to jump in line as a sheep. Not saying you specifically, but if college shows employers anything, I’d say that it’s those who hold degrees have committed to a 9-5 style of life and will most likely be loyal slave workers for their corporation.

I have a degree too, so like I said, I’m not jumping at you specifically. I just think the college path is much more a blind path that the herd follows now vs what it’s been in past years.
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 3 months ago '04        #15
etchasketch 58 heat pts58
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 MrCiiNeMa said
Or it shows you know how to jump in line as a sheep. Not saying you specifically, but if college shows employers anything, Iíd say that itís those who hold degrees have committed to a 9-5 style of life and will most likely be loyal slave workers for their corporation.

I have a degree too, so like I said, Iím not jumping at you specifically. I just think the college path is much more a blind path that the herd follows now vs what itís been in past years.
I 100% feel you and understand where you are coming from. I have a 9-5 and am slowly trying to build my real estate portfolio so I can reach my passive income goal and retire in the next 7 years. With that being said, I have a goal to run a small real estate firm where I acquire proprties under market value and either flip them or rent them out, and I would like to employ people. If I had to candidates looking for a job and they equally qualified, I will 100% choose the person that went through the rigor of a four year university.

Entrepreneurship is super dope and I think that everyone should aspire to be their own boss, but bosses need workers.
+5   

 3 months ago '16        #16
Aztlan 84 heat pts84
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 Class of 2017 said
I don't think youtube conspiracy videos and 4chan counts as self education my G.

 PineappleOG said
Iím not one, thatís the only education I have
I was just trolling
+1   

 3 months ago '16        #17
Aztlan 84 heat pts84
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 MrCiiNeMa said
Or it shows you know how to jump in line as a sheep. Not saying you specifically, but if college shows employers anything, Iíd say that itís those who hold degrees have committed to a 9-5 style of life and will most likely be loyal slave workers for their corporation.

I have a degree too, so like I said, Iím not jumping at you specifically. I just think the college path is much more a blind path that the herd follows now vs what itís been in past years.
There are more 9-5 jobs that don't require degrees than do....

There are more people who never go to college than do....
+2   

 3 months ago '10        #18
The Insomniac 9 heat pts
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Here come the BX geniuses who are gonna use this article to sh*t on getting a college education
+3   

 3 months ago '10        #19
The Insomniac 9 heat pts
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 MrCiiNeMa said
Or it shows you know how to jump in line as a sheep. Not saying you specifically, but if college shows employers anything, Iíd say that itís those who hold degrees have committed to a 9-5 style of life and will most likely be loyal slave workers for their corporation.

I have a degree too, so like I said, Iím not jumping at you specifically. I just think the college path is much more a blind path that the herd follows now vs what itís been in past years.
Someone w/ an actual degree would never say this trash you just said

 3 months ago '13        #20
North!!! 436 heat pts436
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Like my homie Gary vee says self awareness

Know what you want

And decide what comes wit the path

Like if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer stuff like that obviously need school

Being an entrepreneur not so much

Someone that’s unsure should try a bunch of sh*t

Try vocational school; if they go to college start wit a community college or some sh*t that ain’t put them in crippling debt
+2   

 3 months ago '14        #21
Ivorypillars 16 heat pts16
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The "Diploma Disease",Over-educated Job Seekers Flood The Worlds Job Markets
the article is mainly about korea

You know damn well dudes didnt click on this thread to read about Korea
+5   

 3 months ago '18        #22
VirgilAlighieri 
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College was never meant to be job training for the whole of the populace; we need to re-establish this culturally. Tech schools should generally handle job training. College should be for those seeking a career in higher learning and scientific research, its not for everyone.

On an economic level, our attempt to integrate job training with a higher education environment has denigrated the quality of education for those for those seeking careers in higher learning while simultaneously increasing the costs extravagantly for those who merely want an edge in the labor market.
+2   

 3 months ago '17        #23
TheLastNonEarth 101 heat pts101
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 yousabi*ch said
lets get real...for most careers you can learn the sh*t on the job and save 100,000 in tuition....there are certain ones that you obviously need to be educated...most college grads dont know sh*t about their career they learn it on the job as well
Exactly



College is more about showing that you have the dedication to complete the arduous task of graduating. Especially in this day and age, new information or technology makes traditional methods obselete by the minute

Online marketing students can't believe that woahvicky and other IG famous idiots will be who they'll be negotiating with to do promos for their company or they need to learn from them how to go viral... Something those people achieved without college


Last edited by TheLastNonEarth; 12-02-2018 at 04:53 PM..
+5   

 3 months ago '05        #24
Flatbush85 63 heat pts63
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Damn my boy Lee Jin-hyeong, dude is majoring in Computer Science to be a cop! America needs to steps it's game up.
+2   

 3 months ago '05        #25
Flatbush85 63 heat pts63
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For anyone that sat in the back of every class and/or majored in the liberal arts I'm done hearing about how you can't find a job.
+4   

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