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Jun 16 - Millionaires Are Using Opportunity Zones To Make Wall Street Profits Tax Free


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 5 months ago '10        #1
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Bandito 
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Jun 16 - Millionaires Are Using Opportunity Zones To Make Wall Street Profits Tax Free
 

 

Any of y'all got a few extra million laying around to get in on this "opportunity"

Not going to say told you so. This was discussed when they were announced as part of the Republican's tax bill. The profits from selling the stocks is tax free. The businesses they put that money into will be exempt from taxes as well. They use code words like "development." No. It is a business. Apartment buildings are businesses. They are not built for any other reason except profit.

I'm sure those tax cuts will trickle down any day now.
+23   



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 5 months ago '11        #2
Sin  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x5
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It’s not just millionaires i know small time investors who are taking advantage of this and so should anyone with substantial disposable cash
+19   

 5 months ago '10        #3
Bandito  OP
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 Sin said


It’s not just millionaires i know small time investors who are taking advantage of this and so should anyone with substantial disposable cash
The issue is that the program is being advertised to help the people in the zones. The program is only for money you get from selling stuff that is considered "capital gains" aka investments. Who in those areas have the "substantial disposable income" to take advantage of this program? To even qualify to be considered a opportunity zone, there has to be a substantial amount of the population in poverty or living beneath the average median income level of 80k a year.

The guy in that instagram video is talking about taking 100k and investing in a zone and cashing out for a million in 10 years. That is not realistic for most people in those areas.

The thing about the $20 million project in Tempe, Arizona that is featured in the PBS video is the need for the project was already there. It didn't need the opportunity zone program as an incentive to be built. The tax revenue was forfeited for no reason.

One last thing. The city of Tempe estimates they need low income housing for over 50k people. How is this 90 unit apartment complex going to help with that. Only 10 of the units have been promised by the investors to be available as low income housing. That is not even going to put a dent into Tempe's needs.

Now let's do the maths. 90 units at a cost of $20 million. How much rent are they going to charge? I don't know the rental market in Tempe. But, let's say they charge 2,000 a month. It would take over a 100 years to just break even on the building costs. 4k a month would take 50 years. 10k a month would still take over 20 years. No investors are going to wait that long on a ROI. These are going to be luxury apartments and they are going to go for a lot of money. The local community is not going to be able to afford them.

Get enough developments like this in the area and the housing costs of the surrounding area will rise. The local residents will pushed out and that is textbook gentrification. I know you have said before that you don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. I don't either. But, don't hide behind code words and act like you are trying to help or give "opportunity" to the residents in these areas. A better name for this program would be gentrification zones.
+21   

 5 months ago '16        #4
YKing 
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 Bandito said
The issue is that the program is being advertised to help the people in the zones. The program is only for money you get from selling stuff that is considered "capital gains" aka investments. Who in those areas have the "substantial disposable income" to take advantage of this program? To even qualify to be considered a opportunity zone, there has to be a substantial amount of the population in poverty or living beneath the average median income level of 80k a year.

The guy in that instagram video is talking about taking 100k and investing in a zone and cashing out for a million in 10 years. That is not realistic for most people in those areas.

The thing about the $20 million project in Tempe, Arizona that is featured in the PBS video is the need for the project was already there. It didn't need the opportunity zone program as an incentive to be built. The tax revenue was forfeited for no reason.

One last thing. The city of Tempe estimates they need low income housing for over 50k people. How is this 90 unit apartment complex going to help with that. Only 10 of the units have been promised by the investors to be available as low income housing. That is not even going to put a dent into Tempe's needs.

Now let's do the maths. 90 units at a cost of $20 million. How much rent are they going to charge? I don't know the rental market in Tempe. But, let's say they charge 2,000 a month. It would take over a 100 years to just break even on the building costs. 4k a month would take 50 years. 10k a month would still take over 20 years. No investors are going to wait that long on a ROI. These are going to be luxury apartments and they are going to go for a lot of money. The local community is not going to be able to afford them.

Get enough developments like this in the area and the housing costs of the surrounding area will rise. The local residents will pushed out and that is textbook gentrification. I know you have said before that you don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. I don't either. But, don't hide behind code words and act like you are trying to help or give "opportunity" to the residents in these areas. A better name for this program would be gentrification zones.

+7   

 5 months ago '17        #5
JacobWatch 
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Just opened an llc for my pops and completely forgot about the opportunity zones

Gonna check the map later, hopefully the address I used is in the clear and if not I’m opening another one of them hoes in the right spot

I didn’t know it applied to all business etc in the area, I thought it was only real estate investments

Good sh*t op

+4   

 5 months ago '04        #6
datboy|e 
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We need to f*ght against the “Rich” - physically
+6   

 5 months ago '11        #7
Sin  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x5
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 Bandito said
The issue is that the program is being advertised to help the people in the zones. The program is only for money you get from selling stuff that is considered "capital gains" aka investments. Who in those areas have the "substantial disposable income" to take advantage of this program? To even qualify to be considered a opportunity zone, there has to be a substantial amount of the population in poverty or living beneath the average median income level of 80k a year.

The guy in that instagram video is talking about taking 100k and investing in a zone and cashing out for a million in 10 years. That is not realistic for most people in those areas.

The thing about the $20 million project in Tempe, Arizona that is featured in the PBS video is the need for the project was already there. It didn't need the opportunity zone program as an incentive to be built. The tax revenue was forfeited for no reason.

One last thing. The city of Tempe estimates they need low income housing for over 50k people. How is this 90 unit apartment complex going to help with that. Only 10 of the units have been promised by the investors to be available as low income housing. That is not even going to put a dent into Tempe's needs.

Now let's do the maths. 90 units at a cost of $20 million. How much rent are they going to charge? I don't know the rental market in Tempe. But, let's say they charge 2,000 a month. It would take over a 100 years to just break even on the building costs. 4k a month would take 50 years. 10k a month would still take over 20 years. No investors are going to wait that long on a ROI. These are going to be luxury apartments and they are going to go for a lot of money. The local community is not going to be able to afford them.

Get enough developments like this in the area and the housing costs of the surrounding area will rise. The local residents will pushed out and that is textbook gentrification. I know you have said before that you don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. I don't either. But, don't hide behind code words and act like you are trying to help or give "opportunity" to the residents in these areas. A better name for this program would be gentrification zones.
We live in a capitalist society the goal is to make money

$100,000 may not be realistic for someone in that area but 20 people with $5,000 is realistic now you have an investment group you’re involved in investing in your neighborhood

Gentrification is inevitable if you don’t own where you live, you can’t expect to rent forever at the same rate

People who own homes in that area aren’t complaining because they can sell for more than they bought for


Last edited by Sin; 06-17-2019 at 08:12 AM..
+3   

 5 months ago '06        #8
Skateboard T 
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It’s happening all over charlotte
+4   

 5 months ago '11        #9
Sin  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x5
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 Skateboard T said
It’s happening all over charlotte
I was just reading about the battle of the banks in Charlotte



The banks are moving top talent out of NYC down to Charlotte
+2   

 5 months ago '15        #10
Gratiot 
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Let take advantage of the rules as well instead of condemning them. I use to so convinced it was them running the system(it is mostly) but they just take advantage of the info and run with it.

There are all types of tax writes off we can use to our disposal just by starting a business. You get write offs for employees, businesses spaces, vehicles, you can write off losses and certain expenses..the list goes. The government places incentives to run a business so why do we not try to go to that side? Employees gets taxes the most(40 and 60%) and it will never change..not saying thats right but im just looking at this realistically.
+3   

 5 months ago '04        #11
ItAlY2BkLyN 
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better learn to play the game. Otherwise you'll just be pissed off that someone else is.
+3   

 5 months ago '17        #12
DJdidit 
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It's not just the rich, if I get my hands on land in oz's in my state that make sense profit wise I will buy it. The thing is you get a tax deduction for holding your money long term (7-10 years) in opportunity zones. Some places you can buy lots in oz's for 1k, however where I live that's not the case

 5 months ago '05        #13
TheChampIsHere! 
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 Gratiot said
Let take advantage of the rules as well instead of condemning them. I use to so convinced it was them running the system(it is mostly) but they just take advantage of the info and run with it.

There are all types of tax writes off we can use to our disposal just by starting a business. You get write offs for employees, businesses spaces, vehicles, you can write off losses and certain expenses..the list goes. The government places incentives to run a business so why do we not try to go to that side? Employees gets taxes the most(40 and 60%) and it will never change..not saying thats right but im just looking at this realistically.
Word! im in real estate and got my son as an employee. I write off up to $12,000 a year using him as an employee alone. Gotta pimp the system...
+6   

 5 months ago '06        #14
Skateboard T 
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 Sin said
I was just reading about the battle of the banks in Charlotte



The banks are moving top talent out of NYC down to Charlotte
Yeah there was just a big BBT merger or acquisition announced I canít recall with who, suntrust I believe?

My girlís at a large Charlotte firm and they do TONS of finance/banking legal work. Itís the main industry in the city I think.
+1   

 5 months ago '11        #15
Sin  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x5
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 Skateboard T said
Yeah there was just a big BBT merger or acquisition announced I can’t recall with who, suntrust I believe?

My girl’s at a large Charlotte firm and they do TONS of finance/banking legal work. It’s the main industry in the city I think.
Charlotte is the banking capital in the US with all the headquarters

NC is also a growing tech sector with the research triangle

 5 months ago '11        #16
Broseph Stalin  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x3
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 JacobWatch said
Just opened an llc for my pops and completely forgot about the opportunity zones

Gonna check the map later, hopefully the address I used is in the clear and if not Iím opening another one of them hoes in the right spot

I didnít know it applied to all business etc in the area, I thought it was only real estate investments

Good sh*t op

just looked into this sh*t and there ainít sh*t in or near my area.



Edit:

plenty of room for development for the whole island of Puerto Rico. Might have to talk to my business partner on this. Pretty sure that last hurricane freed up some more land
+2   

 5 months ago '14        #17
titans7 
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The rich get to get richer and keep even more of their money by avoiding more taxes

 Bandito said
The issue is that the program is being advertised to help the people in the zones. The program is only for money you get from selling stuff that is considered "capital gains" aka investments. Who in those areas have the "substantial disposable income" to take advantage of this program? To even qualify to be considered a opportunity zone, there has to be a substantial amount of the population in poverty or living beneath the average median income level of 80k a year.

The guy in that instagram video is talking about taking 100k and investing in a zone and cashing out for a million in 10 years. That is not realistic for most people in those areas.

The thing about the $20 million project in Tempe, Arizona that is featured in the PBS video is the need for the project was already there. It didn't need the opportunity zone program as an incentive to be built. The tax revenue was forfeited for no reason.

One last thing. The city of Tempe estimates they need low income housing for over 50k people. How is this 90 unit apartment complex going to help with that. Only 10 of the units have been promised by the investors to be available as low income housing. That is not even going to put a dent into Tempe's needs.

Now let's do the maths. 90 units at a cost of $20 million. How much rent are they going to charge? I don't know the rental market in Tempe. But, let's say they charge 2,000 a month. It would take over a 100 years to just break even on the building costs. 4k a month would take 50 years. 10k a month would still take over 20 years. No investors are going to wait that long on a ROI. These are going to be luxury apartments and they are going to go for a lot of money. The local community is not going to be able to afford them.

Get enough developments like this in the area and the housing costs of the surrounding area will rise. The local residents will pushed out and that is textbook gentrification. I know you have said before that you don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. I don't either. But, don't hide behind code words and act like you are trying to help or give "opportunity" to the residents in these areas. A better name for this program would be gentrification zones.

 5 months ago '17        #18
JacobWatch 
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 Broseph Stalin said
just looked into this sh*t and there ainít sh*t in or near my area.



Edit:

plenty of room for development for the whole island of Puerto Rico. Might have to talk to my business partner on this. Pretty sure that last hurricane freed up some more land
Yea bruh all you really need is an address to register all your sh*t at and you can take advantage of the situation...

I looked at the map around my way and the first address I used doesn't qualify but now I know for sure I know some people who live in the areas that do

 5 months ago '15        #19
POTUS2045 
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There are four types of tax treatments for growth of principal.
Taxable
Tax-deferred
Tax-deductible
Tax free

 5 months ago '06        #20
DominicanLou 
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Find 200 friends & family with $500 each and make it happen
+1   

 2 weeks ago '10        #21
Bandito  OP
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Billionaires Keep Benefiting From a Tax Break to Help the Poor. Now, Congress Wants to Investigate

Congress is calling for investigations of and changes to a Trump tax break aimed at helping poor areas of the country in response to reporting by ProPublica and The New York Times showing the program has been exploited by the wealthy and politically connected.

The opportunity zone program, which was part of the 2017 tax law overhaul, was supposed to drive investment toward specially designated low-income neighborhoods. But numerous reports have highlighted ways in which politically connected individuals have landed opportunity zone designations for areas in which they have a financial stake, sometimes at the expense of poorer areas.

ProPublica’s reporting uncovered instances in Baltimore and Detroit in which billionaires stand to benefit from the break in areas that shouldn’t have qualified for the program in the first place. The Times reported that Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin had intervened to get a tract added to the program that included land owned by a billionaire investor.

Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., introduced a bill this week that would significantly narrow the scope of the program. It would remove hundreds of areas that the original legislation allowed to benefit from the break even though they were not poor, including the two areas of Detroit and Baltimore that ProPublica identified. It would also vastly increase the reporting requirements for those taking advantage of the break and narrow the kinds of investments that would be eligible to receive it.

“The Opportunity Zone program has been troubled from the start,” Wyden said in a statement. “The Treasury Department has been steering potentially billions in tax breaks to Donald Trump’s friends, and there are no safeguards to ensure taxpayers are not simply subsidizing handouts for billionaires with no benefit to the low-income communities this program was supposed to help.”

In recent days, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Cory Booker, a vocal backer of the program since its inception, and Reps. Emanuel Cleaver and Ron Kind also called on the Treasury’s inspector general to review the program, citing the ProPublica and New York Times stories. Their letter requests a review of all opportunity zones to ensure they comply with the eligibility requirements of the program.

Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., recently announced that, if elected president, he would seek to scrap the opportunity zone program altogether. “This is corruption and corporate greed, and it is unacceptable,” he said, citing ProPublica’s Detroit story and other reporting.

Other lawmakers, including House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal, requested the Government Accountability Office review the program and “identify any Opportunity Zones that do not meet the statutory criteria and explain how and why they were designated.”

The White House didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment. But this year at an event in Washington, President Donald Trump praised the program. “Across the country, our tax cuts have kicked off a race to invest in Opportunity Zones beyond anything that anybody in this room even thought,” he said.

In June, ProPublica and WNYC reported on an opportunity zone in Baltimore largely owned by Under Armour founder Kevin Plank’s private development company. Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan picked the area for the program after a meeting with Plank’s lobbyists, despite a member of his own staff noting that it was too wealthy to qualify for the program. Both Hogan and Plank’s team have said the development will benefit a neglected part of the city and help the surrounding communities.

Last month, ProPublica published a report showing that Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert stands to benefit from the program in wealthy areas of downtown Detroit, including one area that shouldn’t have qualified for the program. Internal emails showed that Gilbert’s representatives communicated with officials at the local, state and federal levels about the program prior to the areas being designated as opportunity zones. Quicken denies that the company lobbied the Treasury Department to make any particular areas eligible for the program.

The New York Times reported last month on how Mnuchin personally intervened in the Treasury’s implementation of the law to include the Nevada tract where billionaire Michael Milken owns land. The Times published an internal IRS memo objecting to the move. Mnuchin has said he didn’t know about Milken’s investments when he got involved in the case.

Experts have raised significant issues with the program since it was included in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in 2017. The program offers a break to investors on their capital gains taxes if they plow that money into poor neighborhoods.

Some public policy experts argue that tax breaks that target geographic areas, rather than the people living in them, are fundamentally flawed. Money can too easily flow into investments with no tangible benefit for existing residents, such as luxury housing, they say

“What we are seeing is big high-end investment in real estate, and that is not going to benefit poor people in poor places,” said Timothy Weaver, a professor of political science at SUNY Albany who has studied past place-based tax incentives. Instead, Weaver said, the foregone revenue would be better spent on things like parks, libraries and schools that improve the lives of current residents.

In addition, the program currently lacks transparency or a mechanism for determining its effectiveness. Opportunity zone funds self-certify on their private tax forms that they are in compliance with the program. There is no mechanism for informing the public in any detail about who is using the tax break or for what purpose. The Treasury Department is working on final regulations, but there is no clear sign it will include sufficient transparency and reporting requirements

The Wyden bill takes aim at many of these issues, though it leaves the overall tax break intact. It seeks to eliminate the break for overly wealthy areas and to exclude certain kinds of investments — such as residential projects that don’t include affordable housing — from the program. It also would amp up the reporting process by requiring opportunity zone funds to post information about their investments publicly, and it directs the Government Accountability Office to evaluate the program’s effects after a period of time.

The proposal stops short of empowering a government agency to direct investments to projects that fit the objectives of the program, as is the case with some other place-based initiatives. It also doesn’t ensure the community must benefit from opportunity zone investments by imposing any requirements that projects employ or house local residents.



Who know there would be corruption there.

Some of the previous reporting mentioned in the article.

West Virginia


Chicago


Jacksonville Jaguars owner using the program to subsidize their new stadium.


Detroit


Baltimore


NYT article on Steve Mnuchin stepping in to help billionare Michael Milken get part of the property he already owned labeled a OZ.
+1   

 2 weeks ago '16        #22
Aztlan 
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Obvious. This guy has no clue how to do non-swamp related activities.

 2 weeks ago '07        #23
Bighempin of QM 
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This ain't nothing more than giving the green light for rich people to buy up sh*t and once again have the poor and indent out on their a*ses!



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