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bryce harper continues to steal money :deadpg:


 
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 6 days ago '13        #51
dtdroid 166 heat pts166
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 imthatinfamous said
right





It is the essence of what Moneyball was all about

Moneyball : the essence of winning in an unfair game

what makes the game unfair

teams that have payrolls like the Yankees and Red Sox
It's like you don't even realize that the core tenets of Moneyball were an overwhelming success that paved the way for sabermetrics to be accepted by wealthy and impoverished franchises alike...



You keep forcing a false choice dilemma regarding sabermetrics on one extreme and a big budget on the other. What if I told you Bill fu*king James, the father of sabermetrics, is on the Red Sox payroll, which you may recall from your own research is the highest in the league?

Sabermetrics and high payrolls aren't mutually exclusive, idiot. Advanced metrics celebrate more than the needles in a haystack you keep referring to when you reference the Moneyball As. Those As were an example of just how good sabermetrics is competing against big payrolls without money. Is it really so difficult for you to extrapolate just how successful a ballclub could be if it combined a big budget with sabermetrics?




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  Career: | Aug 18: 1-0, Rank #250 | Aug 17: 8-4, Rank #127 | Aug 16: 9-8, Rank #319 | Aug 15: 10-3, Rank #148 *


Last edited by dtdroid; 05-15-2019 at 02:09 PM..
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 6 days ago '06        #52
imthatinfamous 46 heat pts46
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 ST36 said
See I thought you would bring that up. They beat the Boston Red Sox to get to the WS. The Red Sox had a 136 million dollar pay roll.


I mean if you wanna move the goal posts that’s fine.
I will acknowledge all that...fact still stands you have one example? maybe there is a second out there? lets see....sabermetrics were coined in the early 70s and then there is evidence that they were used in the game in the late 70s...but became hugely popular in the 90s...even tho there was sabermetrics with the FORTRAN computer int he 70s...so lets say 2000 as a good starting point...even tho there is 30 years of evidence of sebermetrics use in the MLB at this point...2000 to 2018 you got 18 world series...36 teams...and one example

 6 days ago '06        #53
imthatinfamous 46 heat pts46
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 dtdroid said
It's like you don't even realize that the core tenets of Moneyball were an overwhelming success that paved the way for sabermetrics to be accepted by wealthy and impoverished franchises alike...



You keep forcing a false choice dilemma regarding sabermetrics on one extreme and a big budget on the other. What if I told you Bill fu*king James, the father of sabermetrics, is on the Red Sox payroll, which you may recall from your own research is the highest in the league?

Sabermetrics and high payrolls aren't mutually exclusive, idiot. Advanced metrics celebrate more than the needles in a haystack you keep referring to when you reference the Moneyball As. Those As were an example of just how good sabermetrics is competing against big payrolls without money. Is it really so difficult for you to extrapolate just how successful a ballclub could be if it combined a big budget with sabermetrics?
sabermetrics has been used in the MLB since the 70s...try again...

The Red Sox have the sabermetrics Guru in Bill James on the payroll...which resulted on them missing on so many players time and again that they publicly announce that they would be given a lesser role and hold less weight in player personnel decision?

James always get the credit for helping the red sox win their 4 world series but for some odd reason sabermetric tenderd*cks always comes to his defense when people mention contracts like crawfords, sandovals, renteria, etc etc

2003 James publishes analysis that the closer is glorified...Red Sox follow philosophy and have trash bullpen all year due to philosophy and analysis...acquire elite closer Keith Foulke the very next season

James has analysis that 38 year old Mike Cameron is far superior center fielder than 24 year old Jacoby Ellsbury...Red Sox move Cameron to left and right field realizing their mistake...

you can write a book with just the mistakes the red sox have done becuase of the use of sabermetrics...imagine the whole league

 6 days ago '15        #54
ST36 1 heat pts
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 imthatinfamous said
I will acknowledge all that...fact still stands you have one example? maybe there is a second out there? lets see....sabermetrics were coined in the early 70s and then there is evidence that they were used in the game in the late 70s...but became hugely popular in the 90s...even tho there was sabermetrics with the FORTRAN computer int he 70s...so lets say 2000 as a good starting point...even tho there is 30 years of evidence of sebermetrics use in the MLB at this point...2000 to 2018 you got 18 world series...36 teams...and one example
2007 Rockies lost in WS to Red Sox 57 mill (Beat 90 mil Phillies)

2003 Marlins (who actually beat the Yankees for the WS) 47 Mill

2002 Angels ( who again beat the Yankees and won the WS) 61 mill

Top 10 most propped recently  6 days ago '07        #55
timdog 1118 heat pts1118
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 dtdroid said
Another discussion about stats without a single advanced metric featured in the photo in the OP...

It's time baseball fans caught themselves up to speed with the current philosophy of the game and moved beyond batting averages and counting stats. I can tell very little about a hitter's profile after looking at nothing but batting average, runs scored, home runs, RBI and stolen bases. Those are basic, casual stats and nothing more, tantamount to ranking NFL QBs by nothing other than the number of passes they completed every year.

Harper doesn't bring batting average to the table. Hitting for average is not what he was drafted to do. He has an elite eye capable of drawing walks with the best of the MLB, . And both of those stats are before considering Harper's power.

"but but but .222 batting average!"

Yeah. That doesn't fu*king mean anything. In the current era that prioritizes hitters, batting average has never been less important. The stolen base has never been less important. The type of small ball that favors contact hitters and speedsters on the basepath has never been less important. Sabermetrics has done the math on these styles of play and determined that putting a runner on base is a priority that sits well above developing hitters that can hit for high averages, which, no matter how high of a figure we are looking at, will still fail in comparison to the on base percentages of hitters capable of drawing walks at an elite rate.

Mike Trout, for example, is not a special case when we evaluate only his batting average, hitting "just" .307 for his career (still ranking him somewhere in the top 5% of hitters ever, mind you). But when we evaluate his career OBP of .416, we quickly realize he is second only to Joey Votto among active players when it comes to getting on base. Getting on base ~41% of the time, through any means, is simply more valuable in this era than being a .310+ hitter with an inability to draw walks, which is pretty much the absolute extreme ceiling for a player with a profile like a Javy Baez or Jose Altuve.

And yet walks are ignored on boxden entirely, as if unimportant. No, what's relatively unimportant are contact hitters who reach base less than 35-40% of the time, despite hitting safely as much as 30% of the time or more. The guy batting behind these hitters doesn't need them to bat .300 to drive them in at the most effective pace. He needs them to reach base closer to 40% of the time to do that.

Walks matter. Advanced metrics matter.

And Harper's contributions to the Phillies matters a whole lot more than what this lazy criticism of Bryce in this thread would indicate.
So you paying Bryce superstar money because his walk percentage. Bryce actually strikeouts more than he get his walks.

Ill give him his 2015 season but besides that he overrated. And you wonder why he was never to lead the Nats no where.
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Top 10 most propped recently  6 days ago '07        #56
timdog 1118 heat pts1118
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 ST36 said
2007 Rockies lost in WS to Red Sox 57 mill (Beat 90 mil Phillies)

2003 Marlins (who actually beat the Yankees for the WS) 47 Mill

2002 Angels ( who again beat the Yankees and won the WS) 61 mill
So 2 examples how out how many?

 6 days ago '13        #57
dtdroid 166 heat pts166
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 timdog said
So you paying Bryce superstar money because his walk percentage. Bryce actually strikeouts more than he get his walks.

Ill give him his 2015 season but besides that he overrated. And you wonder why he was never to lead the Nats no where.
Well no sh*t. . (JRam, Carlos Santana, Trout and Votto )



Everyone strikes out more than they walk. The fact that you would use that as a knock against Harper says a lot about how limited your grasp of advanced stats really is...




sportsbook 177 - 83 STRK: 3 w in a row WIN PCT: 68% 22 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 18: 1-0, Rank #250 | Aug 17: 8-4, Rank #127 | Aug 16: 9-8, Rank #319 | Aug 15: 10-3, Rank #148 *


Last edited by dtdroid; 05-15-2019 at 03:08 PM..
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Top 10 most propped recently  6 days ago '07        #58
timdog 1118 heat pts1118
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 dtdroid said
Well no sh*t.



Everyone strikes out more than they walk. The fact that you would use that as a knock against Harper says a lot about how limited your grasp of advanced stats really is...
No im not Rickey Henderson lead the leagues in walks 4 times and not one of them times did he have more strike outs. matter of fact through out his whole career he only went 5 times with more strike outs than walks.

My grasp of advanced stats is not limited. Matter of fact for you to say that shows why "people like me" tend to dismiss the wonderful analytics you like to show.

Bryce is overrated. He has never duplicated his 2015.
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 6 days ago '13        #59
dtdroid 166 heat pts166
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 timdog said
No im not Rickey Henderson lead the leagues in walks 4 times and not one of them times did he have more strike outs. matter of fact through out his whole career he only went 5 times with more strike outs than walks.

My grasp of advanced stats is not limited. Matter of fact for you to say that shows why "people like me" tend to dismiss the wonderful analytics you like to show.

Bryce is overrated. He has never duplicated his 2015.
Using a first ballot hall of famer's bb/k% as the standard for which Bryce Harper needs to be compared makes my argument for me. Henderson drew more walks in history than any player not named Barry Bonds. Rickey Henderson does not make your argument if you are attempting to sh*t on Harper for not meeting the standard of the #2 player in walks in MLB history...




sportsbook 177 - 83 STRK: 3 w in a row WIN PCT: 68% 22 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 18: 1-0, Rank #250 | Aug 17: 8-4, Rank #127 | Aug 16: 9-8, Rank #319 | Aug 15: 10-3, Rank #148 *
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 6 days ago '16        #60
Cedwards198451 
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So many casual baseball fans, its fu*king May

 6 days ago '15        #61
ST36 1 heat pts
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 timdog said
So 2 examples how out how many?
I just gave 4 examples of teams getting to the WS with low payrolls. So you tell me they have to be the WS champion for it to prove effective? Being 2 of the last teams standing doesn’t mean sh*t? Lol keep moving the goal posts..

First it was “it doesn’t work prove it

Then I proved it.

“That’s one time since 2000”

Proved it 3 more times with 2 teams actually beating the Yankees

Now it’s

“2 examples out of how many?”

Let me guess next it’s going to be

“But how many of those teams won on a Tuesday.”

 6 days ago '06        #62
bigkilla 27 heat pts27
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 Prometheus said
Fans boo. That’s what they are suppose to do. “Aren’t suppose to have down games” in a sport where 4 out of 10 is legendary.

You need to learn more about baseball.
Fans are supposed to boo... but certain markets are far more unforgiving and less patient... and you make it sound like 4 out of 10 in baseball is something unique when in basketball if you’re shooting 5 out of 10 you’re considered great as well...

 6 days ago '10        #63
SmoothTay 23 heat pts23
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Baseball gotta chill wit them long a*s contracts
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 6 days ago '06        #64
Jhnnyblz427 198 heat pts198
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 ST36 said
I just gave 4 examples of teams getting to the WS with low payrolls. So you tell me they have to be the WS champion for it to prove effective? Being 2 of the last teams standing doesn’t mean sh*t? Lol keep moving the goal posts..

First it was “it doesn’t work prove it

Then I proved it.

“That’s one time since 2000”

Proved it 3 more times with 2 teams actually beating the Yankees

Now it’s

“2 examples out of how many?”

Let me guess next it’s going to be

“But how many of those teams won on a Tuesday.”
I bet your daddy Dtroid Is proud of you

I’ve noticed you hang by his left nut everything he post his analytic stuff. Great job I’m sure he’s proud of you.

 6 days ago '15        #65
ST36 1 heat pts
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 Jhnnyblz427 said
I bet your daddy Dtroid Is proud of you

I’ve noticed you hang by his left nut everything he post his analytic stuff. Great job I’m sure he’s proud of you.
Johnny why you talkin when you ran from our league....


I guess you still hurt from that Yankee game you went to where Boston dropped 15 runs on the Yankees ��

 6 days ago '06        #66
Jhnnyblz427 198 heat pts198
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 ST36 said
Johnny why you talkin when you ran from our league....
One year break. I’ll be back to take back my throne.

 6 days ago '15        #67
ST36 1 heat pts
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 Jhnnyblz427 said
One year break. I’ll be back to take back my throne.
7th place throne?
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 6 days ago '04        #68
Javon23 333 heat pts333
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Phillies have a 3 game lead on top of the division
Meanwhile the 16-25 Nats are on the verge of firing their coach.
And FYI Mike Trout and the Angels are 20-23

But yall go right ahead and keep talking Harper Bullsh*t
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Top 10 most propped recently  6 days ago '07        #69
timdog 1118 heat pts1118
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 dtdroid said
Using a first ballot hall of famer's bb/k% as the standard for which Bryce Harper needs to be compared makes my argument for me. Henderson drew more walks in history than any player not named Barry Bonds. Rickey Henderson does not make your argument if you are attempting to sh*t on Harper for not meeting the standard of the #2 player in walks in MLB history...
it does make my case. If you going off a guys walk percentage then you gotta go with the strikeouts as well. If you more prone to strikeout more then what does that say? Alot of these advanced stats can be misleading. I would be willing to use the guy who strike out less and walks more.

Top 10 most propped recently  6 days ago '07        #70
timdog 1118 heat pts1118
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 ST36 said
I just gave 4 examples of teams getting to the WS with low payrolls. So you tell me they have to be the WS champion for it to prove effective? Being 2 of the last teams standing doesn’t mean sh*t? Lol keep moving the goal posts..

First it was “it doesn’t work prove it

Then I proved it.

“That’s one time since 2000”

Proved it 3 more times with 2 teams actually beating the Yankees

Now it’s

“2 examples out of how many?”

Let me guess next it’s going to be

“But how many of those teams won on a Tuesday.”
Only two won the world series tho.

 6 days ago '15        #71
ST36 1 heat pts
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 timdog said
Only two won the world series tho.
So for it to work the end result must only be a WS title. Not a winning product. Right.

Top 10 most propped recently  6 days ago '07        #72
timdog 1118 heat pts1118
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 Javon23 said
Phillies have a 3 game lead on top of the division
Meanwhile the 16-25 Nats are on the verge of firing their coach.
And FYI Mike Trout and the Angels are 20-23

But yall go right ahead and keep talking Harper Bullsh*t
Not because of Bryce.

Top 10 most propped recently  6 days ago '07        #73
timdog 1118 heat pts1118
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 ST36 said
So for it to work the end result must only be a WS title. Not a winning product. Right.
In the end you play to win a World Series right? I get the use of advanced stats but some people act like if you dont go by you know nothing.

 6 days ago '04        #74
Javon23 333 heat pts333
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 timdog said
Not because of Bryce.
Stats do not define everything.
Without the presence of Bryce the Phillies would be sh*t.
With the presence of Bryce the Nats would be on top of the division

 6 days ago '18        #75
ordoabchao 27 heat pts27
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 TooFatToFish said
no team should have given him more than 5-6 years.....

just plain stupid
Facts.
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