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bryce harper continues to steal money :deadpg:


 


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 1 week ago '17        #26
Samich Eater 3 heat pts
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Only 2 months into the season. People should chill out.

What's Philly's current standing in the division? Aren't they first?
+1   

 1 week ago '16        #27
TrillPeez 12 heat pts12
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Further proof that stat watchers aren't game watches

 1 week ago '17        #28
myPOWER 3 heat pts
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 6Fraud said
That 330 ainít impressive if you gotta be locked in for 13 years to get it



NBA money>>>>

New NFL money( QBís) >>>
Damn you broke n*ggas spend so much time on the Internet it makes you delusional to reality.
+3   

 1 week ago '04        #29
nobody 2 heat pts
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Ha, my time is the braves. Since he's in our divison, im stinking up and k*lling phillies salary for a decade plus is fine with me.

We locked up 2 of our players for pennies compared to what phillies gave this bum.

Nobody was going to pay him or camacho all that money, should have let his azz sit during the regular season.

 1 week ago '17        #30
dubsax 15 heat pts15
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 fcm415 said
Arent MLB contracts fully guaranteed though? I mean sh*t, a team's third best starting pitchers can get 100 mil five years easy.

NFLer gets a 100 mil contract and may only get 10
NBA's nice if you are a star but by far MLB makes the most.
not if you break it down by game checks
162 games vs
82 games vs
16 games

The games are more brutal yes, but practices are nothing during the season.
only allowed 14 padded practices, no tackling, very little live contact.

whereas basketball is damn near year round so is baseball.
Also the is no minimum wage for draft picks in baseball. you can get drafted and not make anything.

also have to take in consideration the team sizes and hard cap or lack thereof for MLB and the NBA.
Boston's payroll is 160 million dollars higher than Tampa's, who only has 1 player making over 10 million per.




sportsbook 276 - 162 STRK: 2 w in a row WIN PCT: 63% 18 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 18: 685-368, Rank #13 | Aug 17: 1-0, Rank #253 *
-2   

 1 week ago '12        #31
fcm415 
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 dubsax said
not if you break it down by game checks
162 games vs
82 games vs
16 games

The games are more brutal yes, but practices are nothing during the season.
only allowed 14 padded practices, no tackling, very little live contact.

whereas basketball is damn near year round so is baseball.
Also the is no minimum wage for draft picks in baseball. you can get drafted and not make anything.

also have to take in consideration the team sizes and hard cap or lack thereof for MLB and the NBA.
Boston's payroll is 160 million dollars higher than Tampa's, who only has 1 player making over 10 million per.
I know all that, esp the games breakdown and rosters. I wasnt bout to write a essay.

We're talking money and what you actually get as a good player. That's what I was responding to.

 1 week ago '05        #32
TRU 504 BoY 1 heat pts
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Not a Bryce fan. But I knew this was gonna happen. Glad he didn't sign with LA. But, it's only May. Give him til the beginning of the 2nd half of the season. Sometimes players get better after the all star during the second half. As a 330 million dollar player, you should be playing great everyday.
-1   

 1 week ago '13        #33
dtdroid 166 heat pts166
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 TrillPeez said
Further proof that stat watchers aren't game watches
This thread doesn't prove that at all. All this thread proved was that too many people are focusing on the wrong stats.




sportsbook 177 - 83 STRK: 3 w in a row WIN PCT: 68% 22 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 18: 1-0, Rank #250 | Aug 17: 8-4, Rank #127 | Aug 16: 9-8, Rank #319 | Aug 15: 10-3, Rank #148 *

 1 week ago '16        #34
TrillPeez 12 heat pts12
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 dtdroid said
This thread doesn't prove that at all. All this thread proved was that too many people are focusing on the wrong stats.
fu*k up pu**y

 1 week ago '16        #35
Razzle Rathorne 
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 Prometheus said
Itís the 2nd month of the season
For 330 million u better be putting Bonds type sh*t like if u not gonna hit just take the walks until thereís a pitch in ya zone that u can smash

 1 week ago '06        #36
imthatinfamous 47 heat pts47
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 dtdroid said
Another discussion about stats without a single advanced metric featured in the photo in the OP...

It's time baseball fans caught themselves up to speed with the current philosophy of the game and moved beyond batting averages and counting stats. I can tell very little about a hitter's profile after looking at nothing but batting average, runs scored, home runs, RBI and stolen bases. Those are basic, casual stats and nothing more, tantamount to ranking NFL QBs by nothing other than the number of passes they completed every year.

Harper doesn't bring batting average to the table. Hitting for average is not what he was drafted to do. He has an elite eye capable of drawing walks with the best of the MLB, . And both of those stats are before considering Harper's power.

"but but but .222 batting average!"

Yeah. That doesn't fu*king mean anything. In the current era that prioritizes hitters, batting average has never been less important. The stolen base has never been less important. The type of small ball that favors contact hitters and speedsters on the basepath has never been less important. Sabermetrics has done the math on these styles of play and determined that putting a runner on base is a priority that sits well above developing hitters that can hit for high averages, which, no matter how high of a figure we are looking at, will still fail in comparison to the on base percentages of hitters capable of drawing walks at an elite rate.

Mike Trout, for example, is not a special case when we evaluate only his batting average, hitting "just" .307 for his career (still ranking him somewhere in the top 5% of hitters ever, mind you). But when we evaluate his career OBP of .416, we quickly realize he is second only to Joey Votto among active players when it comes to getting on base. Getting on base ~41% of the time, through any means, is simply more valuable in this era than being a .310+ hitter with an inability to draw walks, which is pretty much the absolute extreme ceiling for a player with a profile like a Javy Baez or Jose Altuve.

And yet walks are ignored on boxden entirely, as if unimportant. No, what's relatively unimportant are contact hitters who reach base less than 35-40% of the time, despite hitting safely as much as 30% of the time or more. The guy batting behind these hitters doesn't need them to bat .300 to drive them in at the most effective pace. He needs them to reach base closer to 40% of the time to do that.

Walks matter. Advanced metrics matter.

And Harper's contributions to the Phillies matters a whole lot more than what this lazy criticism of Bryce in this thread would indicate.

and yet teams are still throwing top dollar at offensive players that can mash 35+ HR drive in 100+ RBI and hit .290+

advanced stats is used is specific situations...when teams are near their payroll cap and they need to figure out to fill some roles cheaply...

please...tell me about these small payroll teams winning world series with their advanced stats
+1   

 1 week ago '13        #37
IamDaGawd 4 heat pts
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Da smug gawd is proud
+1   

 1 week ago '13        #38
dtdroid 166 heat pts166
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 imthatinfamous said
and yet teams are still throwing top dollar at offensive players that can mash 35+ HR drive in 100+ RBI and hit .290+

advanced stats is used is specific situations...when teams are near their payroll cap and they need to figure out to fill some roles cheaply...

please...tell me about these small payroll teams winning world series with their advanced stats
Not once was payroll ever mentioned in my argument regarding sabermetrics. You put forward a false choice dilemma implying teams are either purchasing 35 hr, 100 rbi, .290 types or guys that jive with advanced metrics - all of the players who fit that criteria are also graded highly by advanced metrics, so you made entirely no ground in that department attempting to separate unanimously agreed upon studs from sabermetrics powerhouses who both include those all around hitters (though RBI indicates nothing but their place in a lineup that is or is not putting runners on base ahead of that hitter) as well as other players whose contributions are not as apparent from said counting stats.

Sabermetrics is a part of every single GM's decision making in 2019. I can tell you foolishly a*sumed the entire sabermetrics revolution was just some kind of trial run by the Moneyball As consisting of stats other clubhouses weren't using at the time. No; WAR, OPS, wRC, FIP, K9 and wOBA are just a few examples of advanced metrics that broadcasters have even started introducing to fans across multiple MLB markets.

It's painfully obvious you either don't watch the games or don't watch many of them, because you'd have a much broader understanding of what sabermetrics mean by now if you had followed literally any MLB team for the past decade and a half. You'd have seen these brand new statistics popping out of nowhere as your HR, BA, and RBI numbers feature the same players taking turns leading the league from one year to the next in wildly fluctuating counting stats while advanced metrics do a lot more than your basic stats' limitations when attempting to separate the elite from the very good.

What kind of self-respecting fan of the game would hate on the concept of having more information available to him instead of less? I think the gripe with sabermetrics from your types are that they require you to take a deeper plunge into the numbers than your lazy, armchair managerial abilities have traditionally allowed. You've known for eternity that more than 30 home runs in a season is a demonstration of power, that more than 100 RBI in a season is a demonstration of clutch hitting with runners in scoring position, and that a .300 batting average is an example of a contact hitter you want batting at the top of the order.

Okay. What else can you tell me with those numbers? The problem with your basic stats are that they simply don't say enough. What else can your hitter bring to the table than what those 3 basic statistics suggest? If you don't have an accurate representation of how often he actually gets on base, then you can't come to much of any conclusion from what percentage of his batted balls in play manage to land for base hits. Thankfully, your big brother sabermetrics is there to bail out your basic stats once again: , or batting average on balls in play, can point to how likely hitters are to regress positively or negatively toward a career average. Knowing the history of a player's advanced metrics profile is predictive toward future success. Basic counting stats simply cannot achieve that.




sportsbook 177 - 83 STRK: 3 w in a row WIN PCT: 68% 22 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 18: 1-0, Rank #250 | Aug 17: 8-4, Rank #127 | Aug 16: 9-8, Rank #319 | Aug 15: 10-3, Rank #148 *
+1   

 1 week ago '06        #39
imthatinfamous 47 heat pts47
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 dtdroid said
Not once was payroll ever mentioned in my argument regarding sabermetrics. You put forward a false choice dilemma implying teams are either purchasing 35 hr, 100 rbi, .290 types or guys that jive with advanced metrics - all of the players who fit that criteria are also graded highly by advanced metrics, so you made entirely no ground in that department attempting to separate unanimously agreed upon studs from sabermetrics powerhouses who both include those all around hitters (though RBI indicates nothing but their place in a lineup that is or is not putting runners on base ahead of that hitter) as well as other players whose contributions are not as apparent from said counting stats.

Sabermetrics is a part of every single GM's decision making in 2019. I can tell you foolishly a*sumed the entire sabermetrics revolution was just some kind of trial run by the Moneyball As consisting of stats other clubhouses weren't using at the time. No; WAR, OPS, wRC, FIP, K9 and wOBA are just a few examples of advanced metrics that broadcasters have even started introducing to fans across multiple MLB markets.

It's painfully obvious you either don't watch the games or don't watch many of them, because you'd have a much broader understanding of what sabermetrics mean by now if you had followed literally any MLB team for the past decade and a half. You'd have seen these brand new statistics popping out of nowhere as your HR, BA, and RBI numbers feature the same players taking turns leading the league from one year to the next in wildly fluctuating counting stats while advanced metrics do a lot more than your basic stats' limitations when attempting to separate the elite from the very good.

What kind of self-respecting fan of the game would hate on the concept of having more information available to him instead of less? I think the gripe with sabermetrics from your types are that they require you to take a deeper plunge into the numbers than your lazy, armchair managerial abilities have traditionally allowed. You've known for eternity that more than 30 home runs in a season is a demonstration of power, that more than 100 RBI in a season is a demonstration of clutch hitting with runners in scoring position, and that a .300 batting average is an example of a contact hitter you want batting at the top of the order.

Okay. What else can you tell me with those numbers? The problem with your basic stats are that they simply don't say enough. What else can your hitter bring to the table than what those 3 basic statistics suggest? If you don't have an accurate representation of how often he actually gets on base, then you can't come to much of any conclusion from what percentage of his batted balls in play manage to land for base hits. Thankfully, your big brother sabermetrics is there to bail out your basic stats once again: , or batting average on balls in play, can point to how likely hitters are to regress positively or negatively toward a career average. Knowing the history of a player's advanced metrics profile is predictive toward future success. Basic counting stats simply cannot achieve that.
I mentioned payroll as part of my argument...at its very core, the argument for advance stats is that you can put a team on the field "that can beat the Yankees" at a significant fraction of the cost...this has yet to be proven true...
+1   

 1 week ago '09        #40
The Bully 461 heat pts461
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 dtdroid said
Another discussion about stats without a single advanced metric featured in the photo in the OP...

It's time baseball fans caught themselves up to speed with the current philosophy of the game and moved beyond batting averages and counting stats. I can tell very little about a hitter's profile after looking at nothing but batting average, runs scored, home runs, RBI and stolen bases. Those are basic, casual stats and nothing more, tantamount to ranking NFL QBs by nothing other than the number of passes they completed every year.

Harper doesn't bring batting average to the table. Hitting for average is not what he was drafted to do. He has an elite eye capable of drawing walks with the best of the MLB, . And both of those stats are before considering Harper's power.

"but but but .222 batting average!"

Yeah. That doesn't fu*king mean anything. In the current era that prioritizes hitters, batting average has never been less important. The stolen base has never been less important. The type of small ball that favors contact hitters and speedsters on the basepath has never been less important. Sabermetrics has done the math on these styles of play and determined that putting a runner on base is a priority that sits well above developing hitters that can hit for high averages, which, no matter how high of a figure we are looking at, will still fail in comparison to the on base percentages of hitters capable of drawing walks at an elite rate.

Mike Trout, for example, is not a special case when we evaluate only his batting average, hitting "just" .307 for his career (still ranking him somewhere in the top 5% of hitters ever, mind you). But when we evaluate his career OBP of .416, we quickly realize he is second only to Joey Votto among active players when it comes to getting on base. Getting on base ~41% of the time, through any means, is simply more valuable in this era than being a .310+ hitter with an inability to draw walks, which is pretty much the absolute extreme ceiling for a player with a profile like a Javy Baez or Jose Altuve.

And yet walks are ignored on boxden entirely, as if unimportant. No, what's relatively unimportant are contact hitters who reach base less than 35-40% of the time, despite hitting safely as much as 30% of the time or more. The guy batting behind these hitters doesn't need them to bat .300 to drive them in at the most effective pace. He needs them to reach base closer to 40% of the time to do that.

Walks matter. Advanced metrics matter.

And Harper's contributions to the Phillies matters a whole lot more than what this lazy criticism of Bryce in this thread would indicate.
I could listen to you talk baseball for hours
+2   

 1 week ago '13        #41
dtdroid 166 heat pts166
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 imthatinfamous said
I mentioned payroll as part of my argument...at its very core, the argument for advance stats is that you can put a team on the field "that can beat the Yankees" at a significant fraction of the cost...this has yet to be proven true...
No that isn't the argument for advanced stats

You are confusing "the argument for advanced stats" (something Bill James introduced as a concept decades before Beane's Moneyball As) with the hail mary attempt by the As on a handicapped budget to compete with teams capable of outspending them for far superior players all around. The wins per dollar the As were able to accomplish were an achievement in and of themselves that proved sabermetrics' worth.

Bill James, the man literally responsible for kickstarting the sabermetric revolution, is on the payroll as consultant of the reigning world series champion Red Sox... You keep asking for some kind of proof that sabermetrics lead to results while you ignore the fact that every single MLB team is utilizing sabermetrics right now. The results of every world series winner over the past twenty+ years have sabermetrics to thank, some in greater part than others. Sabermetrics aren't just a choice a franchise opts to go with over picking up stereotypical, one dimensional sluggers like Giancarlo Stanton or Edwin Encarnacion... sabermetrics are now universal to every team's front office.




sportsbook 177 - 83 STRK: 3 w in a row WIN PCT: 68% 22 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 18: 1-0, Rank #250 | Aug 17: 8-4, Rank #127 | Aug 16: 9-8, Rank #319 | Aug 15: 10-3, Rank #148 *

 1 week ago '15        #42
ST36 1 heat pts
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 imthatinfamous said
I mentioned payroll as part of my argument...at its very core, the argument for advance stats is that you can put a team on the field "that can beat the Yankees" at a significant fraction of the cost...this has yet to be proven true...
The Tampa bay rays literally went to the World Series in 2008 with a 43 million dollar payroll.

Won their division in fact they actually proved it. Lol

 1 week ago '15        #43
ST36 1 heat pts
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Lmaooo people actually look at batting avg still. Ah. Casuals.
+1   

 1 week ago '13        #44
dtdroid 166 heat pts166
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 ST36 said
Lmaooo people actually look at batting avg still. Ah. Casuals.
Most of that coming from the same guy that said Ichiro was the greatest hitter of his lifetime




sportsbook 177 - 83 STRK: 3 w in a row WIN PCT: 68% 22 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 18: 1-0, Rank #250 | Aug 17: 8-4, Rank #127 | Aug 16: 9-8, Rank #319 | Aug 15: 10-3, Rank #148 *

 1 week ago '16        #45
Slam 
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Glorified Mark Reynolds
+3   

 1 week ago '15        #46
ST36 1 heat pts
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 dtdroid said
Most of that coming from the same guy that said Ichiro was the greatest hitter of his lifetime
Sheesh. Casuals running around here.

 1 week ago '14        #47
FukHowYouFeel 1 heat pts
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 Pope Francis said
Itís May relax
Came in to post this.


 1 week ago '06        #48
imthatinfamous 47 heat pts47
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 ST36 said
The Tampa bay rays literally went to the World Series in 2008 with a 43 million dollar payroll.

Won their division in fact they actually proved it. Lol
lets finish that statement...went to the World Series....and lost (4-1) to a $104M team...but not only did you fail to recognize that you had to go back 11 years to find an example...you think 1 example proves your point...i mean


and these are the people who get on their soapbox about advanced stats
+1   

 1 week ago '06        #49
imthatinfamous 47 heat pts47
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 dtdroid said
No that isn't the argument for advanced stats

You are confusing "the argument for advanced stats" (something Bill James introduced as a concept decades before Beane's Moneyball As) with the hail mary attempt by the As on a handicapped budget to compete with teams capable of outspending them for far superior players all around. The wins per dollar the As were able to accomplish were an achievement in and of themselves that proved sabermetrics' worth.

Bill James, the man literally responsible for kickstarting the sabermetric revolution, is on the payroll as consultant of the reigning world series champion Red Sox... You keep asking for some kind of proof that sabermetrics lead to results while you ignore the fact that every single MLB team is utilizing sabermetrics right now. The results of every world series winner over the past twenty+ years have sabermetrics to thank, some in greater part than others. Sabermetrics aren't just a choice a franchise opts to go with over picking up stereotypical, one dimensional sluggers like Giancarlo Stanton or Edwin Encarnacion... sabermetrics are now universal to every team's front office.
right





It is the essence of what Moneyball was all about

Moneyball : the essence of winning in an unfair game

what makes the game unfair

teams that have payrolls like the Yankees and Red Sox

 1 week ago '15        #50
ST36 1 heat pts
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 imthatinfamous said
lets finish that statement...went to the World Series....and lost (4-1) to a $104M team...but not only did you fail to recognize that you had to go back 11 years to find an example...you think 1 example proves your point...i mean


and these are the people who get on their soapbox about advanced stats
See I thought you would bring that up. They beat the Boston Red Sox to get to the WS. The Red Sox had a 136 million dollar pay roll.


I mean if you wanna move the goal posts thatís fine.

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